Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Permission To Fly To USA? Difficult?  
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1831 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

I have a question that I do not think it has been asked before:

How hard is it to get permission to fly to the USA of a foreign airline? Does it usually involve a lot of regulations more than any other country? Also, do certain airlines face more regulations than other airlines. (I mean for example, European airlines face acceptance, but other airlines have to wait longer.)

Are airlines usually limited to a certain destination or can they apply for more than one destination in the US? Or does it depend on the airline itself?

Also, one more question please (sorry about all the questions), why can't foreign airlines have 5th freedom pax rights for flying within the US domestically as part of a larger international route?

 Smile THANKS


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
5 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

The USA is probably one of the easiest countries to be able to fly to. Three main factors:

1) There must be an air treaty between the US and that airline's country that allows it. If so...
2) The airline must come from an FAA-rated Category I nation to operate with (unless they operate with a wet-lease). If so...
3) The airline must have an accepetable safety record and demonstrate their ability to operate to the US safety and that they are a legal entity operating securely within the law. Also...

The length of time it takes for an airline to get approved does vary, and usually airlines from modern countries will be approved quicker. Assuming the air treaty with the nation allows it, airlines can apply for broad authority that will allow them to fly any route to the USA.

The US is also very open to granting exemptions to allow airlines to open up new flights that would otherwise not be allowed under the air treaty.

The US also is open to granting new flights and frequencies even when that country's restrictive air treaty is holding back US airlines (for example, US-Ecuador), but they sometimes do take their stand (i.e Aer Lingus and Virgin Nigeria).

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):

Also, one more question please (sorry about all the questions), why can't foreign airlines have 5th freedom pax rights for flying within the US domestically as part of a larger international route?

That is not 5th freedom, that is cabatoge. It is too protect US airlines from foreign airline competing domesticly, and cabatoge is illegal in just about every single country - from Brazil to Canada to Japan. The two major exceptions to cabatoge are:

1) The EU is considered "one" airline market, so any EU airline can fly a domestic flight within another EU country.
2) The Bahamas allows cabatoge.



a.
User currently offlineChicagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

From
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ents/page/dft_aviation_025899.hcsp

Quote:
Freedoms of the Air (these definitions relate to aircraft registered in state A):

1st freedom - the right to flight over state B without commercial or technical stops.
2nd freedom - the right to land in state B for technical purposes, e.g. refuelling.
3rd freedom - the right to set down traffic from state A in state B.
4th freedom - the right to pick up traffic in state B destined for state A.
5th freedom - the right to pick up traffic in state B destined for state C or put down traffic in state B originating in state C.
6th freedom - a service taking passengers between states B and C which flies via state A.
7th freedom - a service between state B and state C operated by airline of state A - a "free-standing fifth freedom".
8th freedom - cabotage.

NOTES: 3rd and 4th freedoms are always granted together. 6th freedoms are effectively two 3rd/4th freedom services linked together, each of which are operated under the relevant bilateral agreement. These are not rights "granted" under an Air Services Agreement (ASA) but they are controlled under the tariff and primary justification provisions of an ASA.

To answer your question, Qantas can fly SYD-LAX, some pax deplane in LAX and the rest continue LAX-JFK on the same aircraft. QF just cannot pick up the pax in LAX for the domestic leg, this will be cabotage...

The basic hang-up in the bilateral agreements is that the US is a huge country, and the majority of foreign airlines are from considerably smaller states. So when you continue on from a small foreign country, you are probably going international, while what most foreign carriers want in the US is access to pick up pax on domestic legs. So any consumer-friendly bilateral would in fact involve granting different freedoms--the US airlines would get the 5th freedom, and the foreign airlines would get the 8th in the US.

The US part ain't never going to happen. There are so many political issues involved that will prevent it. The foreign part (e.g. Singapore or Thailand) is happening however when a small country finds that growing its air traffic with the help of foreign airlines is advantageous.


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5090 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2854 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Also, do certain airlines face more regulations than other airlines. (I mean for example, European airlines face acceptance, but other airlines have to wait longer.)

= 9W would disagree with the others responses  Wink.

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2826 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
There must be an air treaty between the US and that airline's country that allows it

Not neccessarily. A handful of airlines have been granted exemption authority on an ad-hoc basis without a BASA existing between the countries - most notably Ethiopian Airlines until 2005.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 days ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
How hard is it to get permission to fly to the USA of a foreign airline?

Under 49 USC § 41301, any foreign air carrier wishing to offer services to the United States and to offer for sale tickets for travel on its services to/from the United States must obtain authorization from the US Department of Transportation (essentially the Economic Authority) and US Federal Aviation Administration (essentially the Operating Authority). As operations to the United States by foreign air carriers are conducted under 14 CFR 129 (FAR Part 129), the approval is often referred to as the “DOT 129”.

In the case of a carrier who wishes to offer a code-share service or any other kind of service (eg. Wet lease) using the operations of an operator who already holds Operating Authority from the FAA, the DOT Economic Authority must still be approved prior to “listing or advertising service in any medium”. Furthermore “if the appropriate authority is the subject of an application pending with the Department, the service may not be listed or advertised. A note stating that the listed service is ""subject to government approval'' where an application is pending within the Department is not sufficient".

The approval process for the DOT 129 is conducted by the DOT’s Foreign Air Carrier Licensing division, part of the Office of International Aviation. The primary criterion applied for the approval is that the applicant is “ready, fit and able” to provide the service and that the service is “in the public interest”. A standard comment period of approximately 3 weeks following filing is required prior to approval, but can be shortened by phone polling concerned parties for no objection.

However, in the case of any application that involves “any agreements or cooperative working arrangements (e.g., block-space, code-share, wet-lease), both oral and written, entered with and between the applicant, or on behalf of the applicant, and any U.S. or foreign air carrier, affecting the proposed services to the United States” (14 CFR 211.20(m)), a further review is required by the Office of International Aviation’s Pricing and Multilateral Affairs division. This is done to “review intercarrier agreements… to determine whether they should be approved and given antitrust immunity”. There are further requirements under 14 CFR 218.3 that also need to be addressed, as well as requirements under 14 CFR 303, in case a determination of anti-trust potential is made.

Any application that requires a review of antitrust immunity is expected to incur significant delays in approval, to the extent of approximately 3 months assuming no further objections are raised.

The above deals primarily with the DOT 129 and the process and pitfalls most airlines encounter when dealing with that process. The FAA operating authority is a seperate process that focusses primarily on safety oversight.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
European City With The Most Flights To/from USA posted Thu Sep 14 2006 14:21:53 by Emrecan
Mexicana Domestic: Cheaper To Fly Via USA (MIA)! posted Mon Jan 30 2006 15:40:37 by Luisde8cd
Olympic To The USA From Manchester posted Sat Jan 21 2006 13:11:44 by GayrugbyMAN
No Extraordinarily Cheap Deals To The USA? posted Fri Dec 16 2005 16:32:05 by Pe@rson
Jetstar To The USA Imminently posted Wed Dec 14 2005 22:41:39 by Aussie_
Air France Flights To The USA posted Thu Oct 13 2005 11:52:08 by DID747
BMI At It Again. No Permission - EDI To MUC posted Tue Sep 20 2005 10:15:28 by N
Air France Flights To The USA posted Tue Sep 13 2005 17:43:30 by DID747
9W To The USA? posted Tue Jun 21 2005 23:20:52 by DFWKING
KL To Start Business Class Only Flights To The USA posted Fri May 13 2005 13:16:13 by Northernlights