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Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Posted (8 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 19229 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused to fly them home, telling them the aircraft was unsafe. Evening Post readers on board the flight from Antalya in Turkey say a "mini-riot" broke out after the pilot walked into the cabin and made his dramatic announcement, then walked off the plane.

The aircraft, operated by Turkish budget airline Onur Air, was waiting for clearance to take-off.

About 180 passengers are understood to have been aboard the Airbus A321 for 30 minutes in stifling heat, as the air-conditioning was not working.


Full article here

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displ...4133&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 19220 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
The aircraft, operated by Turkish budget airline Onur Air, was waiting for clearance to take-off.

And here was everyone thinking Onur might have cleaned up their act...



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 19182 times:

One point that springs out of the article is:

"He said: "The plane's engines seemed to be making a horrendous noise before it took off and then the captain came out and announced he was resigning."

I wonder if that was the strange starting noise that you get on some airbus narrowbodies??????


User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 19144 times:

PIC says the a/c is unsafe. That's good enough for me and I wouldn't be flying on it.

User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 19054 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused to fly them home, telling them the aircraft was unsafe.

Why the heck would you panic if the pilot refuses to fly an aircraft he/she deemed to be unsafe? Wouldn't you panic if the Captain refused NOT to fly it?

This doesn't make any sense.


User currently offlineLucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18985 times:

I agree if the pilot walks off the job why is there a mini riot? I say ok I will find another way home..

User currently offlineAI From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18906 times:

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 5):
I say ok I will find another way home..

i am not sure how things are in US, but here in the UK sometimes people look for very very cheap holidays & go on very low budgets. once they are at their holiday destination, they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc & probably have no money left on their last day.

i have seen atleast a couple of episodes of airline or holiday airport or something similar where they showed some young man/woman crying at airport because they had no money to buy tckt to go back home ( i dont remember why they didnt have a return tckt in the first place) & their debit card wouldnt be accepted. the airline kept them on standby & then found seats on the 2nd or 3rd day.

so may be this flight from turkey had such people. i could be wrong though.

AI


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1843 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18413 times:

Onur air has a pretty bad reputation for safety and should be avoided. There have been several issues these last months with them. Somebody from my family took one of their flight 2 years ago and she has been really scared during the entire flight due to the very bad shape of the plane

User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18365 times:

I believe Onur Air's reputation in the Netherlands is particularly bad. I remember they were temporarily banned from there last year after a number of incidents, including a runway overshoot at GRQ (wasn't there one at EIN too?).


Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18279 times:

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc & probably have no money left on their last day.

There's not really any better way to do it.

NS


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18251 times:

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 8):

True, In the UK, they seem to be operating fine. All the NCL flights (4/5 x weekly) are flown by A300-600Rs, any delays are due to previous flights.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineJetset7E7 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1090 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18189 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
I wonder if that was the strange starting noise that you get on some airbus narrowbodies??????

I actually like that start up noise, it does it also when the power is cut on some A320's I have been on, like a winding up/down noise.

Mark



Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17889 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 3):
PIC says the a/c is unsafe. That's good enough for me and I wouldn't be flying on it.

If the PIC... or SIC... or MX person... or Dispatcher... is not comfortable with the flight I'm on taking off...neither am I. It may be an inconvenience, but if there's any doubt about safety, it's a hell of a lot easier to get off the plane alive before it leaves the ground.

Getthereitis is deadly, and an abundance of caution is warranted, IMHO.

It may sound corny, but I would hope this and this (http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/imp/90.ram and http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/ramp/90.ram) is the attitude of all airlines (this is the ad campaign that really made me want to fly AA, but I digress)

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc

Uh, wow... I think I may be going to Europe on my next vacation   (kidding).

Lincoln

[Edited 2006-09-16 02:27:09]


CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17813 times:

I'd never fly the airline again if the pilot got off - deeming the aircraft unsafe. If the flight crew doesn't think the aircraft is safe, that's definitive to me. The buck stops with them. At some point, saving money just isn't worth it. I wish more budget airlines could be more like WN. First rate safety, good service and decency, and still cheap.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 12):

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc

Uh, wow... I think I may be going to Europe on my next vacation Wink (kidding).

Ohh, there are plenty of places here in the US you can do that.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineRJwrench85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17480 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 12):
It may sound corny, but I would hope this and this (http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/imp/90.ram and http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/ramp/90.ram) is the attitude of all airlines (this is the ad campaign that really made me want to fly AA, but I digress)

Link did not work for me

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 13):
I'd never fly the airline again if the pilot got off - deeming the aircraft unsafe. If the flight crew doesn't think the aircraft is safe, that's definitive to me. The buck stops with them

Now this is where I have to say it depends on the crew..... Some think an "unsafe plane" is one that doesnt have an operative APU or maybe too many MEL/NAI/CDL's, etc....

Personally myself (MX) if we say it is unsafe than boy there is really a problem.

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 7):
Onur air has a pretty bad reputation for safety and should be avoided

Are there any links to the problems they have been having? This one sounds fishy since the pilot was quiting already


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17444 times:

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Link did not work for me

Sorry, the parenthasis got added into the link. Try
http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/imp/90.ram
and
http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/ramp/90.ram

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17331 times:

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Some think an "unsafe plane" is one that doesnt have an operative APU

UAX wouldn't have any CRJ-200's left to fly.  Sad



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineRJwrench85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17225 times:

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 16):
Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Some think an "unsafe plane" is one that doesnt have an operative APU

UAX wouldn't have any CRJ-200's left to fly.



 laughing  If I had my way with that POS Garrett GTCP36−150 in the back of the 200 It would be replaced with something different.


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17134 times:

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 17):
If I had my way with that POS Garrett GTCP36−150 in the back of the 200 It would be replaced with something different.

I told our passengers to use the safety card - quieter and more reliable anyway. Not sure what I'll do this winter. Maybe you guys can get working on a solution now?  Wink



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineCwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16756 times:

Knowingg the people of Wales and the SouthWest the riot was caused because they'd been left in a foreign country, with no money, on a plane with no aircon! and Im also 99% sure that Onur would have put the passengers straight back on that plane after giving it a minor check and a new pilot - which I for one would not be comfortable about!

Onur seriously need to start getting their act together or they're gonna find themselves in deep waters!



Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16416 times:

The mini riot may be not against the pilots decition, but against onur air for flying such an unsafe plane (come one, if the captain preferes to loose his job then fly on it... then it's really gotta be bad) and for being the root cause for them not being home on time...

Anyway, not to self: avoid onur... in addition to alphajet.



rolf
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16380 times:

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc & probably have no money left on their last day.

The only thing that is more fun then a british guy on vacation is a british girl on vacation.

[Edited 2006-09-16 04:53:40]


rolf
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16050 times:

I will never fly Onur Air in my life. If the PIC walks off due to the plane being unsafe, I will too.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15538 times:

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 21):
The only thing that is more fun then a british guy on vacation is a british girl on vacation.

Please take that as a compliment.



rolf
User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 798 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15383 times:

Does anyone know the reg of this aircraft?

25 AirWillie6475 : He was following a fundamental aviation rule: you don't have to fly if you don't feel comfortable.
26 Post contains links Goldorak : here's one link (there are many posts available on the net on this airline) http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1117059554.html
27 Levent : I believe the EIN incident was fuel gushing out of the right wing. I don't remember the aircraft type though. I flew Onur Air once, from Istanbul to
28 Dutchjet : A lot of drama......while Onur Air does not have the best reputation, the problems that they experienced were mainly due to the sub-standard condition
29 Post contains images 777DAD : Can I ask an Honest question on all Pilots out there? Despite all the hype of this thread would you fly a plane you deem unsafe? I know I wouldn't and
30 RichM : I'm not a pilot but I'm sure it does happen where pilots decide to fly an aircraft if they are aware that there are some issues with it that may comp
31 Post contains images 777DAD : Thanks for your input. Jeff
32 MD11Engineer : For f#ck's sake, nobody in here has any FACTS! I would like to know the whole story first before I post an opinion. So what was actually broken? Was i
33 AutoThrust : I think you mean the loud, PTU noise at the A320 family before starting engines. However, i really have a doubt about Onur Air's safety and maintenan
34 Swissy : Thanks Jan for the input and you are 100% right, lets get the facts first and judge....... I have never met any pilots or mechanics which would have
35 Post contains images 777DAD : I agree also, however it wouldn't be the first time someone flipped out without knowing the FACTS on A-net. Jeff
36 Futurecaptain : No. Now the standards set can be bent a little, depending on the circumstances. But if I deem a plane "unsafe" then the buck stops with me and the a/
37 Airfoilsguy : Ms Copeland refused to specify what the fault on the plane was. That last statement in the article says a lot in my opinion. If it was such a minor pr
38 DTWAGENT : I know if I was on a plane and the captian walks out and tells everyone that this plane is unsafe. I would be halling ass to get off of it. I trust th
39 Dazbo5 : I can't comment on the incident regarding the A321 captain walking out, but I can comment on Onur Air. I've just flown from Manchester to Dalaman with
40 Ivo : Most people in Europe buy a Package Holiday and mostly do not now which airline they are travelling on. Sometimes there is a change in carrier without
41 Swissy : You are right 100% and it is up to the tour operators to use them or not, had many friends which were surprised because they expected airline x but a
42 Post contains images Molykote : I've seen pilots refuse aircraft because of an inoperative lavatory and other minor/convenience issues - This is of course their right. Given the the
43 Pilotaydin : umm....maybe you should word it better, they have no fatail accidents and "opinions" don't count when stating safety levels...facts do... next : lemm
44 TuRbUleNc3 : Funny how Onur Air is yet again in the media though for apparently unsafe aircraft...shame they cant really prove it this time. The unsafe facts spok
45 Pilotaydin : They were banned for paperwork reasons my friend....you can go ahead and e-mail airbus and ask them about the awards they've sent Onur Air for effici
46 TuRbUleNc3 : Looking good doesnt mean sat off the runway after overshooting which was all over the news, plus the other incidents which i cant remember so i wont
47 TK787 : Look at AF, they still look pretty good after overshooting and loosing a 340. Let's not get on the Onur bashing bandwagon every few months. This must
48 Post contains images TuRbUleNc3 : 1 aircraft ...it wasnt like a chain of events in a shortish timeframe, which a certain airline had For a reason, obviously.
49 TK787 : That is one more than Onur lost in operations. Not to take away from AF. I flew with them few times, great airline. Will fly with them again. On the
50 Bennett123 : Scouseflyer I know that Airbus engines make strange noises, but pilots. know that too. I have heard that the pilot had a grudge, is a drama queen etc.
51 Tom12 : Yep, the Netherlands was one of the places, they were also banned from France, Belgium (I think) and Germany Tom
52 Flight7E7 : Has anyone looked at some US A/C lately. Saw a few in PHL the other day, and damn glad I was on AA, albeit 4 hours late. I'd second guess a ride on so
53 Tom12 : Exactly I read that there was some kinda dispute going on with the pilot and the airline but i don't think any pilot would put the shits round 180 pa
54 Traineepilot : I agree, also, when I become a pilot, if i felt a plane was not fit to fly, if i was flying solo, with 1 pax or 300 pax, its just the same, I wouldn'
55 Pilotaydin : you say that now, but guess what, when you become a real pilot, you dont or wont have too much authority to say that unless you have some extra bros
56 Turnit56N : In nearly every instance, if the aircraft is legal per the MELs, etc. it is safe to fly. I have, however, witnessed a few times when the pilots refuse
57 SK973 : Turnit56N is quite right in that an aircraft might be legal but still not safe to fly. My father was an airline captain from the mid eighties until la
58 A330 : Pilotaydin, The MEL merely states if the aircraft is LEGAL to fly. The decision wether it is SAFE to fly a commercial flight lies with the Commander o
59 Pilotaydin : If you're an airline captain you shouldn't be making such statements....the MEL is designed to keep the aircraft WELL within safe operation, anything
60 A330 : Pilotaydin, Would you fly an aircraft which is known to have APU starter problems (say overspeed, a common occurence with older Garrett apu's) and wit
61 Pilotaydin : Boeing QRH states that you must have at least two sources of AC electrics...so i wouldn't need to even do anything about that, the airplane would be
62 A330 : What I mean is if the APU is working, but the aircraft is prone to apu starter problems, for example, you check the techlog and the captain who flew 2
63 Pilotaydin : A330 i also agree with you and i know that you didn't become a captain overnight so you have experience, in the case of this OHY incident, the captain
64 A330 : Safe flying PilotAydin!
65 Mandala499 : Talking about 2 GEN sources... Well, got that orange airline over in Indonesia that has done it again with an APU starter problem and flat batteries,
66 Post contains images David L : Part of the Standard Operating Procedures?
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