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4 777s For Royal Brunei  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12062 times:

Strong rumors at Paris , tell Royal Brunei has bought 4 777-228ERs from Air France.Not known if these T7s are "real" Air France planes or ILFC returned planes.
One thing is sure , it's the beginning of the end for the 200ERs at AFR , since they upgrade some routes , particulary in Africa with 300ERs.
Will more 200ERs leave the fleet when more 300ERs will arrive ?Probably.
The end of the A340-300 at AFR is also in the pipeline.2 frames (F-GLZA and G) will go to Air Madrid next month.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8420 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11805 times:
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Some A340 are now over 15 year old, with many newer airplanes in the 250-320 passenger area AF does better with the 777's.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11767 times:

Interesting that AF is starting to rollover its widebody fleet.....I would assume that AF is simply not renewing leases on the four 772ERs that you mentioned.

Should we be expecting a new order from AF for more widebodies to cover the eventual replacement of the A340/772ER fleet? Will it be for additional A332s and 773ERs.....and/or is AF getting ready to make a choice between the 787 and A350XWB?


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4507 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11565 times:

I don't see how Air France could make such a move right now. They are not exactly enjoying an overabundance of widebody equipment. There are of course a couple of COI configured B744s that will be joining the mainline fleet as more B773ERs in COI configuration will arrive, but with the 2 A343s having to be replaced and another 2 B744s being converted to freighters, I wonder how four additional frames could possibly leave the fleet.

Apart from that, Air France is putting all 25 B772ERs through a cabin retrofit program as we speak, with 9 or 10 already completed. Why would the airline reconfigure aircraft that are about to leave the fleet in the first place?

Then there is the ongoing network expansion frequency reinforcement at Air France, with plans for additional service to North America, Brasil, Central America, China and others. Somehow, any reduction in B772ER frames in the short term will have to be somehow offset by a similar addition of alternative equipment.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11565 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
.and/or is AF getting ready to make a choice between the 787 and A350XWB?

since GE is balking at building larger versions of the A350, it will be interesting to see what AF does....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11269 times:

Air France is still studying both 787 and A350XWB , but probably we can't expect a decision in a short future.They take their time.

User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11036 times:

I wonder why AF has not ordered the A333. The ideal aircraft for CDG-USA/Canada east coast or Africa routes, kick-ass commonality with A332/343...


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11015 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I wonder why AF has not ordered the A333.

Simple - no need.....with their A332/A343/772ER/773ER/744 fleets, AF already has multiple options to match proper range and seating to their longhaul route system. While AF may (its not confirmed) be returning a handful of 772ERs off-lease, the type will be with AF for many years to come.....most expect the A343 fleet to be retired first.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12210 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10959 times:
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Would be excellent news if true. Those T7s will look like awesome beautys in the yellow scheme of Royal Brunei.

User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10908 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):

I think they have a need. For many routes, the A343 or 772ER is just too heavy.

But I think they won't order it anymore; they'll rather wait for the next-generation aircraft.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8683 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10315 times:

If its true, good AF has too many spare a/c. I presume these would be the oldest T7's delivered around 98'.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineFly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

What route would thses 777 potential fly on.


Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

Quoting Fly_yhm (Reply 11):
What route would thses 777 potential fly on.

UK and Australia



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2065 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9664 times:

Question: Why does Royal Brunei need the planes for? I mean, sure, I imagine quite a few tourists go to Bandar Seri Begawan, but do they really need 4 777s for that? I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly.

Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | B6 FLL-BOG-FLL | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD | VA SYD-PER-SYD
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9576 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 13):
Question: Why does Royal Brunei need the planes for? I mean, sure, I imagine quite a few tourists go to Bandar Seri Begawan, but do they really need 4 777s for that? I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly.

People from nearby Sarawak and Sabah can fly from Brunei instead of going to BKI and KCH, also a good number of people transfer from the UK to OZ/nz on their service



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3333 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9330 times:

Quoting Soups (Reply 12):
Quoting Fly_yhm (Reply 11):
What route would thses 777 potential fly on.

UK and Australia

I think the B777s would be used for non-stops to Uk and Germany, while the operating time of the B767s would be utilised for Middle East and additional Australian ops.

Strong rumour that BI will commence MEL ops in 2007...


User currently offlineAviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9231 times:

Quoting Coal:

"I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly."


Brunei is an oil and gas rich country. Their GDP per capita is $24,826 ranking 26th in the world. I also heard from some other sources that RBA will be training B777 crews in the near future. I can't say where they are getting their birds from though.

[Edited 2006-09-18 01:45:31]

User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Coal- I assume you're joking with your above post as your profile says you reside in Singapore- i fthat's the case, surely you wouldn't post such an ignorant question about Brunei!

Tourists to Bandar Seri Begawan? Next to none, unless they have a day in transit flying RBA.


User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9087 times:

RBA does pretty well on the UK-Australia route, albeit a multitude of stops on the way. It is the one of the cheapest ways to get to Australia from the UK.

I would have thought that they would get A332's instead, but 777's seems like the proper aircraft for the route. If this is true expect RBA to cut DXB and BKK off the LHR and FRA route.

BTW RBA's scheme is beautiful.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2065 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 16):
Brunei is an oil and gas rich country. Their GDP per capita is $24,826 ranking 26th in the world. I also heard from some other sources that RBA will be training B777 crews in the near future. I can't say where they are getting their birds from though.

Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 17):
Tourists to Bandar Seri Begawan? Next to none, unless they have a day in transit flying RBA.

Hence my question as to why the need for so many 777s.

Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | B6 FLL-BOG-FLL | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD | VA SYD-PER-SYD
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8585 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 19):
Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

Saudi Arabia's per capita income is 1/3 that of Brunei. When calculating the Saudi Arabia's GDP, foreign nationals residing in the kingdom are factored - many of whom make terrible wages. I have read that the real per capita GDP is something along 12,000 USD, not huge but relatively high.

Saying most of Saudi Arabia's citizens are dirt poor is quite an extreme. It is a very wealthy country, but like every country there are poor people.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2065 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8071 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 20):
Saying most of Saudi Arabia's citizens are dirt poor is quite an extreme. It is a very wealthy country, but like every country there are poor people.

It is extreme if you take into account the n thousand members of the house of Al Sa'ud. Substract them from the rest of the country and you have a starving population who do nothing else but go to Mosques and schools run by Wahabbis... but that's a different story for a thread in non-av.

Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | B6 FLL-BOG-FLL | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD | VA SYD-PER-SYD
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 7927 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 19):
Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

No, Brunei is no the same case. The people there are rich, with a lot of subsidy comes from the oil money. Most of the people there do not even want to go to school anymore because of the oil money. Even the Sultan realizes this and gives more incentive for it's people to learn science and stuff. Among the south east asian nations, Brunei people are probably one of the richest after Singaporeans.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7383 times:

Coal- your ignorance is amazing. Brunei is an oil-rich welfare state with a very small population of under 350,000. Bruneians can probably afford to fly a lot easier than US citizens!!!

User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7342 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 21):

How many times have you been to KSA and Brunei and how much time did you spent?
Thanks for the laughs BTW.


25 MotorHussy : Perhaps the Sultanate of Brunei is looking at performing a similar tourism miracle as that of the Emirate of Dubai? Regards MH
26 6thfreedom : Will the B772s as proposed have the legs for LHR-BWN and FRA-BWN on a non-stop basis?? From To Distance LHR BWN 7015 mi FRA BWN 6677 mi
27 Post contains images MotorHussy : 777-228ERs? Yes and easily - return and year round. BWN is marginally further than MNL. Regards MH
28 6thfreedom : Thanks MH! I certainly hope they are used to expand rather than replace..
29 Psimpson : I believe AF will keep the A340s that are the 313x version for the forseeable future. Only the A340-312s model which were all sold to ILFC and leased
30 KEno : Those 777 would surely come in handy for nonstop services between Brunei and LHR, which have always been operated via Dubai. MH and SQ ceased their Mi
31 Fly_yhm : Not everyone would fly into Brunei Connectiong would be big. I have flow BNE-BWN-Kota Kinabalu I know its been said but this comment is far from true
32 MCOflyer : I hope Royal Brunei gets those a/c. The 772ER will lokk great in their livery. MCOflyer[Edited 2006-09-18 14:37:41]
33 Columba : Didn´t they had some -300s from Air Inter for some time.
34 A342 : Yes, but those were early, high-density domestic models. They were the first A330s to be built and probably had a low MTOW.
35 Leskova : They have the "legs" - but BI would have to be quite blind if they were to cut the BKK stop from the FRA flights: FRA-BKK accounts for quite a large
36 MotorHussy : Good point Frank.
37 ETA Unknown : Unfortunately, RBA pays TG significant royalties to operate FRA-BKK (I don't know the exact figure). However, this payment would be better than flying
38 Vincewy : Brunei is one of the 3 countries in Asia (Japan and Singapore the other 2) that the citizens do not need visa to go to US. In fact, it's the only Mus
39 6thfreedom : Correct. I think talks are pending. BI currently has entitlements for 4pw to SYD/MEL, but wants this to increase to 5pw, then daily...
40 Post contains links MotorHussy : It would appear to me that Brunei and their airline are in a great position to be a wonderful link between Europe and Australasia, plus being able to
41 ETA Unknown : Ah yes- Tourism Brunei- don't believe everything you read, especially in Brunei (and don't believe a thing in the Borneo Bulletin)!. The Govt. pays li
42 ZuluTime : The new 777s for RBA are not ex-Air France, they are the original four ex British Airways 777A aircraft. Might make something of a difference on the r
43 Johnny : @ZuluTime Oh my goodness...
44 ZuluTime : Further news - I had been told they were coming from Varig and that much was true; but they are not the BA 777As. They are four ex-United ones (PP-VRE
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