N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26005 posts, RR: 78 Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10915 times:
Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 5): Haven't there been situations where a de-commissioned AFB has been taken over to use as the area's commercial field? Places like SMF or even MCO? Not sure on the timing though.
SMF was build from the ground up as a commercial airport, it was never an AFB. Further, it opened in 1967
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
C680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9980 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 2): And again why does Panama City need that big of an airport?
St. Joe's compay is a major real estate developer in the Florida Panhandle (Panama City area) they have believed for a long time that a large airport with better commercial service will allow them to develop the Florida panhandle into a major destination area. The weather is good year-round, and there is still plenty of ocean front property available (property that they own!)
First you get the airport.
Then you get the flights.
Then you get the people.
Then you get paid.
SkepticAll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8537 times:
Panama City needs a new airport? What do they intend on calling this new boondoggle...........Airfield of Dreams? If you build it, they will come? It's going to be pretty hard to convince folks that just by adding a new facility, it will generate the traffic and revenue needed to justify the costs associated with the construction of an airfield to supplant an existing airfield that is currently under-utilized.
Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8367 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 2): And again why does Panama City need that big of an airport?
Service at Panama City interacts with Tyndall Air Force Base Air Space and Tyndall is the traning base for the F-22 Raptor, service to Fort Walton Beach is joint-use at Eglin which is slated to be the training base for the Joint Strike Fighter. The new airport is located between the two markets and will serve them well into the future and eliminate their dependence on the military bases.
Thunder9 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 219 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6955 times:
In a nonbinding referendum in 2004, Bay County voters rejected the airport relocation proposal 54 percent to 46 percent even though the ballot wording said it would not cost taxpayers anything. In fact, state and federal tax dollars would be used.
This quote from the article really amazes me on two points...
1. Local voters rejected the project, yet the politicians & business leaders are stoopid enough to go against the voters wishes.
2. Politicians & business leaders are stoopid enough to try to make the local voters think that it will come at now cost to them, but from state and federal tax dollars. Now where do those tax dollars come from??
Is the local government is that area really this foolish?
"Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee." - William Kershner
This is an odd issue with regard to this airport in the way the funding is described. The airport can get FAA money from user fees, but doesn't have taxing authority. The state/local funds are not for the airport itself, but for the roads.
Here are some stats from PFM's website that makes a fairly weak case for a new airport. Passenger growth has been fairly modest since 1998. And the estimated population of the Bay County-Panama City MSA is less than 150,000 and growing only at a low, single-digit pace.
Where they are planning to build the new airport (the so-called "West Bay" area) is relatively unpopulated, with few good roads. Even with new roads, it will still require a relatively-long drive from the proposed airport location into downtown Panama City and the beach resort areas along the Gulf.
I'm not sure that either major airline with ties to the market (DL and NW) have any immediate plans to upgrade this market to mainline service, even with the new airport.
Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5581 times:
Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 21): Here are some stats from PFM's website that makes a fairly weak case for a new airport. Passenger growth has been fairly modest since 1998. And the estimated population of the Bay County-Panama City MSA is less than 150,000 and growing only at a low, single-digit pace.
The airport is merging two markets, joint use at Eglin (VPS) will end to support Joint Strike Fighter Training (ultimately freeing up Miramar for an airport in San Diego) as will service at Panama City Airport (PFN) . The net demand is over 1 million passengers. 776,000 passengers from Valparaiso (Ft. Walton/Eglin) and 380,000 from Panama City. The net combination will place them in the middle of small hub airports like Billings and Santa Barbara, about the size of Fresno in rankings. The two airports being combined are 38 miles apart. $300 million is chump change for it's vast impact on the system as a whole. Panama City passengers will have an additional 12 miles to drive. It is 28 miles from Ft. Walton Beach. State funding is being provided to improve the highway width from Ft. Walton to the new airport.
Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 18): Local voters rejected the project, yet the politicians & business leaders are stoopid enough to go against the voters wishes.
History shows that on major infrastructure issues that they don't understand until the issue becomes a real problem, voters are complete flipping idiots and are completely incapable of grasping long term implications, as are some politicians who have their hands in particular cookie jars of campaign funding.
Coal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1777 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5094 times:
I guess they might try to lure passengers from TLH as well. Of course, they will only succeed if a) They offer non-stop service to cities other than ATL, Central Florida, and South Florida, and b) They offer prices that are at least half of those charged by DL on any of its flights!
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6302 posts, RR: 25 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5062 times:
Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 22): The airport is merging two markets, joint use at Eglin (VPS) will end to support Joint Strike Fighter Training (ultimately freeing up Miramar for an airport in San Diego) as will service at Panama City Airport (PFN) .
Last I heard, Ft. Walton (VPS) had not agreed to this merger and was not going to move operations to the new airport. In fact, VPS just opened a brand new terminal building last year.
While I think merging the two is a good idea, cities are often hesitant to lose control of their local airport and their local identity.
25 RL757PVD: VPS has a great terminal, with a nice layout that should really be a good model for alot of small airports with a 50/50 split between RJ/ Mainline mix
26 Boeing7E7: They aren't going to have a choice in the matter. Eglin is the designated Joint Services Fighter training facility that breaks ground in 2008 and ope
27 Brilondon: This is true any where in Florida as it is a peninsula that sticks out in to the Gulf of Mexico
28 FlyPNS1: VPS has operated commercial flights in tandem with military flights for decades. I'm not sure how being a JSF training facility would change that, ot
29 Boeing7E7: The volume will jump to about 300,000 flights, and have the addition of carrier landing practice for the Navy and Harrier type operations for the Mar
30 Tootallsd: We all realize where state and federal tax dollars come from? Right? I mean some taxpayer somewhere contributed those dollars. The lowest form of leg
31 Boeing7E7: Airport funding comes from Aviation users not the general Federal, State or Local Budget derived form Income Tax. You pay taxes when you fly that pay
32 DTWAGENT: I see it as the FAA having extra money sitting around. Instead of using for something good (or area's that could us the money) they are just throwing
33 Boeing7E7: $300 million for a new airport with a standard 8,400' runway to support 737's and A320's in a combined market where one airport is Joint-Use and the
34 Blazingcessna: Here is the relocation website. http://pcairport.bechtel.com/ I live here and am a pilot. The biggest reason is teh fact that the runway is as long as
35 Lightsaber: I didn't realize that two small airports were being combined to provide one larger airport. This "tidbit" makes the new airport much more viable in m
36 Boeing7E7: Might need a couple more political cycles and airport congestion in San Diego for this to happen. It'll be Miramar, its more an issue of how and when
37 TPASXM787: Hopefully this new airport will work out, becuase that whole area is in the boonies. But if all this about Elgin is correct then it sounds like it is
38 Boeing7E7: 2005 BRAC and Eglin: Realign Luke Air Force Base, AZ, by relocating to Eglin Air Force Base, FL, a sufficient number of instructor pilots and operati
39 FLALEFTY: http://pcairport.bechtel.com/Documents.asp?act=get&file=3076 Here's a PDF handout from Bechtel that shows the new airport plans, etc.. It looks like t
40 Boeing7E7: That was a non starter. Panama City would implode without Tyndall and the number of operations (from F-15 and F-22 training) makes Joint Use impossib