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Qantas 777 Or A340  
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 548 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11938 times:
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Do you reckon Qanttas will order the 777-200LR or the A340-500?
I think the 777-200LR because it looks better and sounds better.

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11932 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
I think the 777-200LR because it looks better and sounds better.

If they decide to order ULR aircraft it will be 772LR but not because it looks or sounds better but because they already have a large 777 order in their books and because it offers better performance that A345.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11932 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
I think the 777-200LR because it looks better and sounds better.

Yes.... because 'looks better and sounds better' is what makes Airline Execs choose planes.

They will go for the 777 because it has better fuel economy and can handle a higher seat density, however, personally the A340-500 looks better.


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11895 times:
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I forgot to mention it has better performence

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11895 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
Do you reckon Qantas will order the 777-200LR or the A340-500?
I think the 777-200LR because it looks better and sounds better.

Hi AeroplaneFreak and welcome to Airliners.net.

If Qantas is to opt for an airplane to fill it's ULR routes then the B777LR should have the upper hand mainly due to it's economics and performance vs the A345.

I will not be due to looks and and sound

In regards to looks, I completely disagree with you. In my eyes the A345 is with out a doubt the best looking bird that's currently gracing our skies. Before the A345, that title belonged to the B727-200.

Regards,
Wings

[Edited 2006-09-18 11:43:16]


Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11875 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 1):
but because they already have a large 777 order in their books a

Since when??????????????

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11851 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 1):
because they already have a large 777 order in their books

They DO!!!! Details please.

If perchance you mean 787, so what, they also have a large A380 order on the books too.

Gemuser



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User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11851 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Welcome to a.net Aeroplanefreak. Hope you enjoy the flight.

I think if QF do go for the B777s then it will order both the B773ER and B772LR. Use the B773s on routes that don't need B744 capicity which inturns frees up B744s for routes that needs it or adding extra flights to popular places. B772s for routes that don't require B773s and B744s, but require extra lift compared to what the A330s offer and open up new routes in the USA that can't be operated by B744s, like BNE or SYD-ORD, AKL-ORD etc


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11803 times:
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Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
Do you reckon Qanttas will order the 777-200LR or the A340-500?

I suspect that the newly announced A350-900R would be above the A340-500 in any ULR pecking order.
If QR decide to go-ahead with a ULR plane before the A350-900R is available, it will be the 772LR, In My Opinion  Smile.

Welcome to A-net.

Regards

(PS - only one "t" in Qantas, before any of your countrymen come down on you  Wink )


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11803 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
I think if QF do go for the B777s then it will order both the B773ER and B772LR. Use the B773s on routes that don't need B744 capicity which inturns frees up B744s for routes that needs it or adding extra flights to popular places. B772s for routes that don't require B773s and B744s, but require extra lift compared to what the A330s offer and open up new routes in the USA that can't be operated by B744s, like BNE or SYD-ORD, AKL-ORD etc

While none of us know for sure, I totally disagree with you. The only B777 QF will order is a small fleet of the ULR version, IF it can do SYD/MEL-LHR to QFs satisfaction. Otherwise, forget it. The roles you describe will be done with B787s of various marks, most probably including the 787-10 and further developments

In fact do not look for QF to order ANYTHING new for several to five years. Conversions of options/purchase rights and the ULR excepted. The have about $A18 billion of aircraft on order, financially they are stretched on their capital expenditure program.


Gemuser



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User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11745 times:



VS




Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineEcuatoriana707 From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11690 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
Do you reckon Qanttas will order the 777-200LR or the A340-500?
I think the 777-200LR because it looks better and sounds better.

they won't order either. geoff dixon has already said QF are not happy with the 777-200LR, and Airbus have really stuffed things with the A380...
The order for 787s will be the next big thing for Qantas opening ULR twin jet services.

The next big orders have to be for new gen 747-8s. BA, QF, CX and others will need to soon start planning for the complete retirement of their 747-400s - QF have 30 plus in service now, with some approaching their 18th birthdays.

IMHO... the A380 will be the white elephant of the QF fleet. The 12 A380s ordered will be delivered for the capacity, but once Boeing have refined the new gen 747 you'll see a big order for these planes from QFs of the world.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11672 times:

NEITHER!

Qantas is simply skipping a generation, and going straight to the 787.

They probably wish they hadn't rushed into buying the 787 though, as the redesigned A350 would have been a better 777-sized alternative.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11657 times:

If Qantas need to focus on boosting profit, fending off union anger and reduce costs rather then ordering jets for routes with questionable profitability. There is no hub-buster currently avaliable which will suit Qantas. Even with the apparent weight reduction, I doubt the 772LR will be suitable enough.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11581 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
Since when??????????????

Regards,
Wings

Sorry my bad. That was a long trip from South Africa.


User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11544 times:

I suspect QF won't order any 777's at all but will firm up some if not all of it's 787 options, particularly when the 787-10 is on the table. I suspect that this will be QF's only ordering activity for the near term.


Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11384 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 15):
I suspect QF won't order any 777's at all but will firm up some if not all of it's 787 options, particularly when the 787-10 is on the table. I suspect that this will be QF's only ordering activity for the near term.

I think firming of some A380 options a la SQ is likely also.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11328 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
Do you reckon Qanttas will order the 777-200LR or the A340-500?
I think the 777-200LR because it looks better and sounds better.

You sound like youve been on here all your life - welcome mate, you'll fit right in.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11258 times:
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Qantas has not ordered 777, they did order a HUGE qantity of 787.

User currently offlineJoffie From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 821 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11220 times:

Personally, I do not believe QF will order the 777 or A340

As others said, the 777LR offers better fuel consumption than the A340, and with their huge 1 billion dollar fuel bill, the a345 can be written off.

As they have already placed an order?? for the 787 and A380 to replace the 767,743 and older 744's, they wont place another order any time soon. I dont think it would be logical to order 100+ boeings and a couple of airbuss. Perhaps MX problems??

Maybe they are interested in the 748 as QF has been a long time 747 operator (since 1970's)?

Quoting Ecuatoriana707 (Reply 11):
they won't order either. geoff dixon has already said QF are not happy with the 777-200LR, and Airbus have really stuffed things with the A380...

Exactly true. I dont think they want any more from airbus. I highly doubt they are even remotly interested in the A350. Apprantly the a330's are crap according to what i have read on this site.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11194 times:

Quoting Joffie (Reply 19):

Exactly true. I dont think they want any more from airbus. I highly doubt they are even remotly interested in the A350. Apprantly the a330's are crap according to what i have read on this site.

You are aware that Qantas have ordered 4 additional crappy A330's this year.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11105 times:

Quoting Joffie (Reply 19):
Apprantly the a330's are crap according to what i have read on this site.

Whoa there Joffie.

If you take everything you read on the site as Gospel...

* The A340-300 is the most inefficient aircraft in the world, ever.
* The A340-500 is easily 400% more expensive to run than the 777LR.
* The A340-600 is easily 400% more expensive to run than the 777-300ER.
* The A380-800 has a much higher CASM than the 747-8I.
* Every single airline in the world divides into three categories = 1 - Smart airlines (ie: Boeing users), 2 - Dumb airlines (ie: mixed fleet), 3 - Really Dumb airlines (ie: Airbus users)
* Engine and MX commonality is more important that anything, ever.
* "Because it looks cool" is a perfectly valid reason for buying a new plane, as long as its a Boeing.
* No airline that operates A340s has made a profit - ever, ever.
* All 777 users are extremely profitable.
* Airbus state-aid is wrong, immoral, anti-competitive, and Dangnammit, i'm not standing for it!
* Boeing state aid exists only so that it can compete with Airbus.
* No Boeing has ever been bought due to political pressures from the US Government.
* No Airbus has ever been bought without political pressures from the EU Governments.
* The 748I is successful - FACT.
* Airline CEOs come on the forums all the time and take notes from all the wonderful knowledge on here. Some decisions, such as the recent DL 777LR "buy" can be attributed soley to a-net lobbying.
* A-net is the world authority on whether airlines are successful or not, even if the company's accounts are in disagreement.
* If you cant quote something with a respected source, it is not true.
* Richard Aboulafia is in fact the second coming of Christ. He is completely unbiased.
* Airbuses are dangerous because the pilot does not fly it - he merely makes suggestions that may or may not be acted upon by the Fly By Wire system.
* Airbuses are dangerous because they all have plastic tailfins that come off for no reason.
* No Boeings have plastic tailfins and are therefore safer.
* IranAir should not be allowed to buy any new planes as they are all terrorists.
* Emirates will go bust in two or three years because of all those A380s.
* Hub and spoke is a daft idea because a-net says so.
* Nobody here voted for George W Bush. Honestly.
* 100 hrs on FS2004 is a perfectly valid qualification for argueing with PhilSquares, Zeke, Pihero, E-Jazz and the rest about how to fly a plane.
* Many people here have extremely successful sex lives.
* Being a First Class Member means you are more right than a Scum Class member on any issue at any time.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10968 times:

Quoting Joffie (Reply 19):

Exactly true. I dont think they want any more from airbus. I highly doubt they are even remotly interested in the A350. Apprantly the a330's are crap according to what i have read on this site.

Odd how the A330 in Cathay service is just super and so awful in QF service. Airbus must go to an awful lot of trouble to make two entirely different planes AND with the same name. Or is it possible that QF much vaunted expertise in configuring planes was the source of most of the brown material rather than the A330?

Presuming that Dixon does not wish Jetstar Int to fail miserably (like AA mark II) why has he given them such crap planes (A330) to start with?

Once QF get the 787 running and are competing with SQ presumably having a choice of 787 and 350, it will be interesting to see how the relativities look to QF.

But don't worry, by then many things will have changed in ways we don't have a clue about. It must be great being a planner!


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10928 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):

Odd how the A330 in Cathay service is just super and so awful in QF service. Airbus must go to an awful lot of trouble to make two entirely different planes AND with the same name. Or is it possible that QF much vaunted expertise in configuring planes was the source of most of the brown material rather than the A330?

Didnt QF specifically specify a lower load floor to their A330s, one which wouldnt take their later first class cabins?


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10911 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 21):
If you take everything you read on the site as Gospel...

Just brilliant but you missed an extra bit on subsidies:

* Subsidies to Airbus are free money and put in jeopardy the future of capitalism and the fate of the free world
* Subsidies to B are hard earned contributions to the furtherance of the lofty aims of mankind.

[Edited 2006-09-18 17:17:53]

25 Baroque : Yes indeedy, but you must see Richard that it was still Airbus's fault! It could not be the fault of QF because they are brilliant at assessing airpl
26 Stitch : I don't believe Airbus is interested in the A350 for the same reason they never consumated a 777 order - because they're not interested in a large wi
27 FlyDreamliner : You are talking about a yet to come variant of an aircraft that hasn't been designed yet? What'll be 2017+ before we see something like that? Why don
28 Jfk777 : Qantas, why did you stray from the Boeing fleet ? A330's with no where to go outside Asia. 777-200ER could fly profitably to Rome, Paris, Frankfurt an
29 Post contains images Stitch : I keep hearing this exact phrase thrown around by folks for both the 787 family and the A350 family and it really...bugs me. Seriously, you'd think B
30 Post contains images ANstar : QF weren't looking for an aircraft to fly Asia - Europe. The A330 does just fine on the Asian routes it was purchased for.... the 772er would have be
31 Post contains images TinkerBelle : LOL.. What a way to start the thread...even better, what a first response huuh!
32 Post contains images Hb88 : Excellent. That post should be part of the Ts and Cs for airliners.net. Correct. In fact, the A340-500/600 series are now officially so heavy and fue
33 Zeke : Chris nice work, just what I needed tonight. Some more to add to your list : Composites parts are always lighter than metal Boeing has the only techn
34 Ken777 : Several years ago I was working with some QF employees on a project and the 777 was discussed. The feeling was that QF was going to buy the 777, but t
35 WINGS : Cathay? Regards, Wings
36 Zeke : I would be very surprised unless they were to set up a cargo arm.
37 BOE773 : Amen Zeke. I would tend to agree with you on this one as the new GEnx is on the cusp of advanced technology with regards to composites. After all, th
38 Zeke : Yep everyone gets free A330s because of A380 delays, it has nothing to do with the capability of the aircraft at all.
39 Stitch : If QF does not take any 747-8s, do you feel that they will fly A380s to all their current 747 destinations? Or do you feel it will be a mix of A380s
40 Post contains images BOE773 : QF will fly their 380s on their most money making routes for these craft. If they opt for 747-8s, this will drive them GE's way. Then we all know wha
41 Ken777 : They may fly the 380s on all their 744 destinations, but still not replace all 744s with 380s. If you look at, say, SYD-LAX-SYD the 380 will probably
42 Zeke : I would not be surprised if they pull out of Frankfurt, Johannesburg, and New York and retain the remaining schedule with 380s. They dont have a lot
43 Stitch : But the 744s will have to go away, eventually. And if QF does not replace them with 748s, as Zeke believes could happen, then that means QF either ha
44 RootsAir : eventhough i'm a large boeing fan i have to admit the A345 looks EXTREMELY beautiful
45 YULWinterSkies : I do not reckon they will buy either of them. I honestly think that the current generation of widebodies is not ready for good ULR planes. Looking at
46 GPS787 : Wow, why so much hate? The first bunch of these anti-Boeing one liners was kinda witty in a left-handed backhand sort of way but the 2nd bunch was ju
47 Post contains links MotorHussy : Quoting Zeke (Reply 33): Boeing has the only technology to develop composite parts Assume you're talking advanced composites as Airbus (via BAe) were
48 Post contains images Stitch : I imagine both Zeke and CHRISBA777ER were being sarcastic (at least mostly so ). Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't when they say these things. An
49 MotorHussy : Doh! Don't I feel the E-Jit. Apologies Zeke, I read you as some ignorant white-trash red-necked hill-billy LOL, missing your sense of irony. Regards
50 AeroplaneFreak : I don't think they will order the A350-900 it will be to long before they can get it
51 Post contains images Morvious : The biggest problem in this world is that airliners won't fly the 777LR and the A345 in the same fleet. They both look and sound great, They both make
52 MotorHussy : Well they don't need the A359LR in the short to medium term as is the case with the 772LR or A345. Regards MH[Edited 2006-09-19 00:27:58]
53 AeroplaneFreak : Yeah I do like the 772LR the better
54 AeroplaneFreak : So it is out of the 777-200LR and the A340-500
55 Sydscott : Um, how about we go with they will order neither!!! Remember all those 787's that are entering the QF fleet from 2008??
56 AeroplaneFreak : Yeah then we have the 787 coming it to service.
57 AeroplaneFreak : I reckon Jetstar won't even get them until 2009
58 Post contains images MCIGuy : 45 787's cost a LOT of money, regardless of discounts.
59 Post contains images Jacobin777 : QF's CEO Dixon stated that if the 787 performs as well as Boeing claims it will, they will take all their options,etc totaling 115 787 frames...
60 Baroque : Don't want to disturb your GPS system with gravity (or even with gravitas) but that WAS the lightened up version. The really heavy stuff is being rea
61 USAF336TFS : You gotta love a.netters... Shesh!
62 Jben : QANTAS will be getting a great deal out of RR or GE whichever way it goes. The GeNX and the Trent are both amazing engines that will make their owners
63 Post contains images MCIGuy : Yeah, and I have every expectation that it will and they will.   Yeah, I'd expect at least some of the options will be converted to firm -10 orders
64 Post contains images PolymerPlane : One more thing: - Calling A380 Whalejet is blasphemous... Cheers, PP
65 Zeke : Small correction, the 787 goes to Jetstar BEFORE Qantas, not the other way around. Does that give you an idea where the corporate mindset is ?
66 Post contains images Sydscott : So I'll say it'll enter the Qantas Group's fleet from 2008 then. We all know what the QF mindset is in this regard. I can't wait to see what sort of
67 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Me too....
68 ERJ135 : This is the best thread in ages, thank you all for taking part.
69 2wingtips : To address the title thread, it is my firm belief that the 772LR is still being considered by QF. QF have not dismissed it at all, but have said the 7
70 AeroplaneFreak : I just got an email from the Australian Itl Airshow and is sais that there is most likely to be an A380 fly over there. Since it can not land there. A
71 ZKNBX : Well said in my opinion. QF unlikely to buy the A345 or 777 for two reasons: QF are financially on the thin end of the slippery slope (check out thei
72 CHRISBA777ER : AeroplaneFreak - all joking aside mate here are my thoughts. I work as an commercial aviation analyst, and so may be able to shed some light on your q
73 Jbguller : I don't know if this has been said, but even though QF have announced that both aircraft have been taken off the table, QF ARE still looking into a de
74 CHRISBA777ER : Everybody and his dog knows someone "pretty high up" at a major airline who tells them confidential information about upcoming fleet orders that coul
75 Ecuatoriana707 : And let's recognise corporate history. QF does not do what Thai, SIA, MAS and many others have done and order small and diverse quantities of types. D
76 ZKNBX : Yes and Boeing - QF a longtime customer - will be sure to still have a hand in with the B748 at QF, given Airbus delays, with the A380. This doesn't s
77 MotorHussy : Ha-ha-ha, hallelujah to that. MH
78 CHRISBA777ER : So by that you are referring to South America and South Africa ETOPS restricted routes? They can be done with existing 744 equipment. I meant to high
79 ZKNBX : And South Pacific. I'm thinking you're on the long thin track here... and the 744 is not that (i.e. long but not thin). QF have never been comfortable
80 CHRISBA777ER : So basically you agree with me.
81 CHRISBA777ER : DFW aside, the A345/777LR brings nothing really useful to the table in terms of capability that the current fleet of 744s does not do very nicely than
82 Post contains images Thorben : This is a pretty good summary of the things some people claim on a.net. Respect to both of you for summing it up. It's said that Germans don't laugh,
83 AeroplaneFreak : Qantas wants Boeing to make the weight of 772LR lighter so it can travel on the Melbourne to London or Melbourne to New York.
84 Baroque : Possibly we need a version from CB as to how this can be done. Shortening the wings would be a good start, should have beneficial effects on the drag
85 ZKNBX : Not by me you didn't. Your post sums things up nicely.
86 Post contains images Astuteman : Which is a bit strange, because with respect to the A350-900R we know:- *The EXACT size, shape and cross-section of the fuselage *EXACTLY how much bi
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