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China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (8 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

AFAIK, this is a new announcement:
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...4FE7-867A-DF77C0800A0A%7D&keyword=


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGEnxPower From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Yes. It is the latest announcement.

This completes the Boeing 787 engine selections for the Chinese Airlines.

Only Air China went with Rolls Royce's Trent 1000. ( 15 aircrafts )

China Eastern ( 15 ), China Southern (10 ) Shanghai ( 9 ), and Hainan ( 8 ) decided to select General Electric's GEnx-1B.

I believe Xiamen Airlines cancelled their ( 3 ) B787 orders.

The next Boeing 787 engine battle will be the highly anticipated Qantas selection, with a decision expected towards the end of this year.

[Edited 2006-09-18 17:23:26]

User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Good news for GE, bad news for RR and PM... =)

QF's decision will be very exciting...

raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Yes, GE also announced this today on AM700 in Cincinnati. Does anyone now the new totalls ordered for each engine? Who has the upper hand so far, RR or Genx?


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

GE must be well ahead by now.

It would be interesting to see how airlines chose their powerplant, especially in country where the government still has a major say

For example, all A330s in China will be RR powered, indeed Hainan only chose the Trent a few weeks ago, so can't have switched supplier due to poor experience!

If, for the sake of the argument, the GEnx was much better than the T1000, then why didn't Air China choose it as well? The mysteries of commerce and politics...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6920 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
GE must be well ahead by now.

163 to 110, I believe.

Well, I'm quite stunned by China Eastern. I wonder if there's still time to cancel the two flights I have booked with them for next month...?

I'd really expected a more or less 50:50 split between RR and GE. But maybe that's the point - GE were given most of the 787s to compensate RR's clean sweep of the A330. Who knows?

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
It would be interesting to see how airlines chose their powerplant, especially in country where the government still has a major say

Mmmmm, interesting.  Sad


User currently offlineSkookum From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Quoting Raggi (Reply 2):
Good news for GE, bad news for RR and PM... =)



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
GE must be well ahead by now.

Boy, I hope BOE773 doesn't read this...



Good flying
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):
What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

Lightsaber did some great posts on this awhile back. Do a search on the engines or on his posts.
Also, Wikipedia has details. Good place to start.

[Edited 2006-09-19 03:22:57]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Well now he has seen it  smile 

Wiki are keeping a tally but sometimes they are slow to update the numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamliner

I'd say the GEnx are capturing most of the plumb carriers so far.


User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):

This will give you some info about the GEnx engine.

http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/genx/index.html


User currently offlineGEnxPower From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

I'm thinking US's HUGE trade defecit with China must have influenced the decision a bit. It might have been a significant factor, IMHO, with both countries trying to balance surplus-defecit numbers.

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):
What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

Just as any GE engine vs RR engine in the past 2 decades, GEnx is 2 spool engine while Trent 1000 has 3 spools. Trent once again has shrouded HPT blades, compared to GEnx non-shrouded HPT blade design (cantilevered).

GEnx features next generation of composite fan blade technology from GE90's. We are extending that technology to even the fan case, with GEnx becoming the world's first engine with fully composite fan blades and fan case.

I'm not sure on this point, but I believe Trent 1000 has titanium alloy fan blades and fan case.

These are just some points on top of my head. There are so much more.
Every design feature mentioned here could be argued over for its pro's and con's and engineering trade-offs.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6920 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):
What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

The GEnx has sold more...  Sad


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21531 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Wiki are keeping a tally but sometimes they are slow to update the numbers.

You can update it any time you feel like it...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

The GEnx series will also be more fuel efficient in all flt regimes than the Trent series.

RR engines are more prone to airflow instability towards the rear stages of the HPC, (Hi Pressure Compressor) as the design requires a longer HPC spool resulting in a more complex airflow which increases the probability of airflow stall. In twin spool designs such as GE and Pratt engines, the stall margin is wider.


User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
You can update it any time you feel like it...

Would you like me to tweak the red ones up some more?


User currently offlineJben From Australia, joined Aug 2006, 77 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Excuse me, you *know* that the GeNX will be superior to the Trent 1000, how precisely? You have access to the engineering data at GE and Rolls Royce? Also, both engines are still in testing... the developmental engine is not necessarily representative of the final production article anyways.

Really? RR engines are more prone to it? You know this, how exactly? You're wrong and the three spool design is an excellent design that reduces weight dramatically. The difference between GE90's and Trents on the 777 shows that even at similar thrust production, the two trent turbines weigh substaintially less than the GE90. It's not an accident that on the 772, the Trent 877/895 are actually the best selling engines... Maybe you'd like to comment on the PW4080? How's that selling?


User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

From the GE website.

The GEnx is the best-selling engine for the Boeing 787.
Selected for three new wide-body aircraftunder development,
the GEnx has orders exceeding 750 engines.

http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/genx/genx_20060918.html


User currently offlineJben From Australia, joined Aug 2006, 77 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Yes, we get that it's the best selling thus far.

I'm also a little concerned that you seem to be plagiarising without giving credit to the source. With phrases like "complex airflow which increases the probability of airflow stall" that seem to originate from this article at wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent . Conveniently, however, you skip the last part of the line "making the engine's airflow very stable over a wide range of spool speeds".


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6920 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 17):
The GEnx is the best-selling engine for the Boeing 787.

Yes, it is for now but it's still very early days. At this stage of the 777 programme the PW4000 was in the lead and the GE90 trailed in third place... I wouldn't draw too many conclusions this early. (And, yes, I'd say the same thing even if RR were in the lead right now.)

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 17):
Selected for three new wide-body aircraftunder development,

True enough but things are never quite that simple. Was it ever really likely that Boeing would offer the next generation of 747 with only a non-US engine? Once they had opted for a single-source and a 787 engine, the GEnx was always likely to win that race. And as for the A350, the RR Trent has also been chosen and may now be in the stronger position following the launch of the XWB. None of this is to deny that the GEnx is a fine engine and has won lots of orders on merit but that's not the whole story.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

Originally, the T1000 took the lead for the 787, with the GEnx being the dominant engine on the A350, giving a nice international mix of frames and engines.

Subsequently, GE has taken most 787 orders, but with the redesign of the A350, and it's refusal to power all versions, may lose the A350XWB lead to RR instead...

The Chinese orders are slightly curious, in that a clean sweep for an engine, or a 50/50 split was expected, but then maybe the individual carriers have more autonomy than we thought...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Subsequently, GE has taken most 787 orders, but with the redesign of the A350, and it's refusal to power all versions, may lose the A350XWB lead to RR instead...

I wouldn't bet that GE will not develop a new engine for the heavier A350....

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Quoting Gaut (Reply 21):
I wouldn't bet that GE will not develop a new engine for the heavier A350....

They've been quite definite so far, after all they could easily have said they was 'investigating the possibility' if they wanted to hedge their bets. The investment in the 77W being a major reason...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
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