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Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions  
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3202 times:

As part of a deal improving conditions in Gibraltar, civil flights are no more restricted:

The deal - signed in the Spanish city of Cordoba - will open up Gibraltar to flights from Spain and other European countries.

Up until now, Spain has only allowed flights to Gibraltar from Britain.

Commercial aircraft will no longer need to perform complicated approaches to avoid using Spanish airspace, although Madrid has not eased restrictions for military flights.


Good news for the people of Gibraltar.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5355942.stm


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineORD14R From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3077 times:

I thought it interesting that Gibraltar will also build a new terminal. The airport is very tiny...the only runway I've ever crossed on foot.

For anyone who speaks Spanish, El Pais has a detailed article on the topic.

What are some potential destinations, aside from Madrid and London?


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
the only runway I've ever crossed on foot.

Yes... Would the potentially increased traffic justify a tunnel under the runway? Oh no wait, I want this situation to stay - it is unique!

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
El Pais has a detailed article on the topic

Interesting article. It says, amongst others, that the new terminal will actually be built partly on Spanish territory, but that the only access will remain from the Gibraltar side, so passngers may still have to pass checkpoints twice. As El Pais says, there are still some things left to be negotiated.

As to which destinations may become possible now, that's a very interesting question. Right now Monarch flies to LTN and GB Airways to LGW, so there's a lot of potential, besides the obvious MAD. Does this mean that Gibraltar would now be able to have an unlimited number of flights within the EU, or would that still be regulatorily restricted?

Edit: BBC has more:

It seems that the airport issue is the one getting most people excited.

Until now, the only commercial flights landing in Gibraltar come from Britain - operated by the British Ministry of Defence (MoD).
[the airport, not the flights]

Madrid has not allowed planes from Spanish airports to land there. This has caused a headache for airlines Monarch and GB Airways - not least when weather problems have forced flights to be diverted. ("At the moment working out of Gibraltar is frankly an operational nightmare", Tim Jeans, Monarch Airlines). It has meant passengers from diverted planes having to be bussed into Gibraltar or, in extreme cases, planes having to land in Tangiers in Morocco, and then later fly into the British colony.

"In general terms this deal is very good news because at the moment working out of Gibraltar is frankly an operational nightmare," said Monarch managing director Tim Jeans. "We've frequently considered stopping the service altogether because it has proved so difficult to operate." Monarch is at loggerheads with the Gibraltar government and the MoD, which operates the runway, over what it describes as "excessive" landing fees.

Having scrapped its service between Manchester and Gibraltar earlier this year, Mr Jeans said it was too early to look at potential new routes but added that the changes made the future rosier.

"This is probably the single most significant development for decades."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5357864.stm

[Edited 2006-09-19 00:43:32]


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
Does this mean that Gibraltar would now be able to have an unlimited number of flights within the EU, or would that still be regulatorily restricted?

Who knows. If this means Openskies, then probably yes. What I do hope is that with this move, the airspace restrictions regarding overflight of Spain in flight to Gibraltar is lifted. I recall that currently, aircraft that fly to Gibraltar have to fly over International Airspace and avoid Spain. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2864 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
which operates the runway, over what it describes as "excessive" landing fees

Landing fees are 5times as high as in Malaga for example. Thats due to the fact that Gibraltar is operated by the MoD and mainly an military airport. They don"t have to look for the price.


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_6399.shtml

This article says that MAD-GIB flights will start in December, and that the new terminal will have entrances in both Spain and Gibraltar (something like BSL, I imagine?)

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
What are some potential destinations, aside from Madrid and London?

I know a new lowcost Gib based start-up plannning to start operations in March 2007 has already announced destinations throughout the UK and the Republic of Ireland... I think they are planning Dublin and Cork, along with an array of UK destinations. I think I heard IB are also planning BCN. Gib is ideal not only for Gibraltar, but for the popular holiday destinations in the area, many of which are closer to GIB than the already very crowded AGP (Malaga).



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
What I do hope is that with this move, the airspace restrictions regarding overflight of Spain in flight to Gibraltar is lifted. I recall that currently, aircraft that fly to Gibraltar have to fly over International Airspace and avoid Spain.

That is exactly what happened. So no more restrictions. I am not sure if in the old situation, aircraft were not allowed to fly over Spain at all, or whether they had to climb to a certain altitude in order to pass.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Can anyone direct me to an approach map of GIbraltar airport? I would like to see the current approach routes. The map section in the Spanish AIC only has some text for Gibraltar, and in the UK one there is nothing at all.

Any other place?

Thanks


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

I think the political implications of this move are far more important than the aviation-related ones, because this step signals the end to the "cold-war situation" between Spain and the UK in terms of Gibraltar.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Quoting Mozart (Reply 8):
Can anyone direct me to an approach map of GIbraltar airport? I would like to see the current approach routes.

http://virtualskies.net/cvars/downlo...22%22approach%20chart%22%20LXGB%22



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

When I flew into GIB this summer, we flew over Spain, but we had to stay at a certain altitude I think 'cos we spent quite a while flyinf the wrong way out over the Med before crossing into Spain.

User currently offlineColumbia107 From Gibraltar, joined Aug 2004, 358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
El Pais has a detailed article on the topic

Interesting article. It says, amongst others, that the new terminal will actually be built partly on Spanish territory, but that the only access will remain from the Gibraltar side, so passngers may still have to pass checkpoints twice. As El Pais says, there are still some things left to be negotiated.

The official communique does not state that the new terminal will be built in Spain.

It states that "A single air terminal (“the terminal”) adjoining the southern side of the fence/frontier will be built, in the appropriate manner as decided by the Gibraltar Government, to enable passengers and their luggage access to and from such terminal directly to/from the north side of the fence/frontier."

Since the decision as to where the terminal will be built will be taken by the Gibraltar Government it can only be built in Gibraltar territory i.e. on the southern side of the border. The northern exit from the new terminal will naturally lead on to Spanish territory as the northern side of the terminal will be built on the border line itself.



In God we trust
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

I'm glad that Spain and the UK are working out some kind of deal.

Side question: Spain still controls a tiny piece of North Africa called Melilla. Is there an airport there? Does Morocco impose the same kind of restrictions on aviation that Spain does with Gibraltar?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 13):
Side question: Spain still controls a tiny piece of North Africa called Melilla. Is there an airport there? Does Morocco impose the same kind of restrictions on aviation that Spain does with Gibraltar?

Yes and no. Let me plug my multi-picture trip report to MLN here: Big grin

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/76969



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineStationManager From Spain, joined Sep 2006, 88 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Theres is a "little" diference between MLN and GIB, MLN is in the North African coast, spanish airlines dont need to fly over Morocco to get into MLN.

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