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AF Concorde In Hawaii?  
User currently offlineConcordeGBOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

Hello A.net,

A quick introduction... I have been reading this forum for years and finally registered. I am a Concorde fan and enthusiast and enjoy reading posts from people such as GDB, Bellerophon, and FlySSC, the resident Concorde experts.

On to my question.. I recently saw a video that showed an AF Concorde in Hawaii. According to the video title text, it was filmed in 1999. Unfortunately, the video's author only mentioned going 'to Hawaii and back' and not the originating station. Of course, this had to be a special charter for AF, but does anyone know where the originating station is, or could have been? Was this part of a tour or some sort? Routing?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Doug

Ref: http://www.planeflicks.com/videos/Concorde/Concorde_Visits_Hawaii

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6359 times:

Perhaps one of the charters mentioned here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...9A03E3DE1F3EF933A25756C0A96E958260

(scroll down the page a few paragraphs for the second story)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6343 times:
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Quoting ConcordeGBOAD (Thread starter):
On to my question.. I recently saw a video that showed an AF Concorde in Hawaii. According to the video title text, it was filmed in 1999. Unfortunately, the video's author only mentioned going 'to Hawaii and back' and not the originating station. Of course, this had to be a special charter for AF, but does anyone know where the originating station is, or could have been? Was this part of a tour or some sort? Routing?

Yes, throughout its career, the Concordes from both BA and AF, performed many round-the-world charter, private and public, that routed through the South Pacific. It used to stop in CHS, and SYD in it's way west/east, and HNL was of the stops it used to make. I remember back in the late 80's where a portion of Concorde's rudder was lost in mid-flight on it's way to HNL. Also, the prototype and preproduction Concordes flew demonstration flight around the globe and they stopped in HNL on the transit flights
www.concordesst.com



Made from jets!
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

There is a great thread about airports the Concorde has visited.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ion/read.main/2433414/6/#ID2433414
Reply #172 talks about the World Tours and HNL.

Looks like it has been to both HNL and Kona.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Collins L. Cochran
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Takeshita



[Edited 2006-09-19 08:46:37]


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6299 times:

I actually watched an AF Concorde arrive at CHC from HNL in 1999. As I recall it was on a round the world charter. My memory may be at fault, but i seem to recall that the rudder shedding incident took place on a CHC-SYD sector and was a BA aircraft.

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

Air France Concorde came several times to HNL, most of the time during "World Tour" :

The first time was in Nov/Dec 1986 : F-BVFF . ... OAK-HNL-PPT ...

Feb/Mar 1987 : F-BVFF ... SYD-NDI-HNL-LAS-NAS ...

Aug/Sep 1987 : F-BTSD ... DFW-OAK-HNL-PPT ...

Sep/Oct 1987 : F-BVFF ... ACA-HNL-GUM ...

Feb/Mar 1988 : F-BVFF ... MCO-LAS-HNL-NAN ...

Apr.1988 : F-BVFF ...OAK-HNL-PPT ...

Sep.1988 : F-BVFB ... OAK-HNL-PPT ...

Nov. 1988 : F-BVFF ... ACA-HNL-PPT ...

Nov/Dec 1988 : F-BTSC ... ACA-HNL-PPT ...

Sep 1989 : F-BVFC ... LAS-HNL-PPT ...

Oct.1989 : F-BTSD ... OAK-HNL-GUM-HKG ...

Oct.1992 : F-BTSD Concorde Spirit Tour LIS-SDQ-ACA-HNL-GUM-BKK-BAH-LIS in 25h15mn.

Oct.1993 : F-BVFF ... OAK-HNL-PPT ...

Nov.1993 : F-BVFA ... LAS-HNL-GUM-HKG

Fev.1994 : F-BTSC ... LAS-HNL-PPT

Sept.1994 : F-BVFF ... LAS-HNL-NAN-CHC ...

Oct.1994 : F-BVFF ... LAS-HNL-NAN-CHC ...

Jan.1995 : F-BTSD ... LAS-HNL-PPT ...

Aug.1995 : F-BTSD Concorde Spirit Tour JFK-TSL-DXB-BKK-GUM-HNL-ACA-JFK in 24h42mn

Sept.1995 : F-BTSD ... DFW-LAS-HNL-NAN-AKL ...


etc ... etc ...


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6057 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2):
I remember back in the late 80's where a portion of Concorde's rudder was lost in mid-flight on it's way to HNL

This happend between London and New York

British Airways flight 001 experienced a partial separation of the lower rudder while in cruise flight over the North Atlantic, off the coast of New Foundland.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19981008-0&lang=en


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5926 times:
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Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 6):
This happend between London and New York

Not disputing that but a similar incident did happen between NZ and SYD, I wasn't sure of the origin but will defer to Rongatai and accept it was CHC.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5887 times:
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The last BA Round The World charter by Concorde visted Kona in Hawaii in 1999. There is a clip of this on the DVD "Concorde - 27 Years Of Supersonic Flight" as is the rest of that charter.

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 4):
My memory may be at fault, but i seem to recall that the rudder shedding incident took place on a CHC-SYD sector and was a BA aircraft.

Correct, the first incident did.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 6):
This happend between London and New York

British Airways flight 001 experienced a partial separation of the lower rudder while in cruise flight over the North Atlantic, off the coast of New Foundland.

This wasn't the first incident, see below.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 7):
NZ and SYD, I wasn't sure of the origin but will defer to Rongatai and accept it was CHC.

The first rudder delamination incident was on G-BOAF and was between Christchurch and Sydney on 12th April 1989. I can't find a picture in the a.net database though of the delamination.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

I highly recommend the DVD that EGTS mentions, lots of other stuff on there too.

SSC, with his list, demonstrates that AF did in fact, do more Concorde 'RTW's than BA.

Our last one, in 1999, was understood at the time to be the last one BA would do-as part of a programme to reduce charters, as it happened, events vastly accelerated and effectively ended ANY charters for BA.

Since, for BA, charters made up some 9% at best, of Concorde revenue, but were using up rather more than that of hrs/cycles, as well as aircraft away from base for the priority scheduled services and the requirement of serviceable standby aircraft for them.


User currently onlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2558 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5531 times:

It's probably not well known, but Hawaiian airlines almost had Concorde service of its own.

In the late 80's or early 90's (I wasn't there yet, so I don't know the exact time) HA was in talks to lease several Concordes from BA. HA's management had agreed to the terms and was planning on using them for daily premium service from the west coast to Hawaii. It looked like it would work out financially for them, however the sticking point came when HA found out the pilots would have to go to England for up to six months to complete the training course for the aircraft. When HA management added up those costs, they realized that they couldn't afford to pay the pilots for that long without them flying and still make a profit on the service, so they gave up on the idea. It seems silly, but yes, losing that many pilots for that long made the difference.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineConcordeGBOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5267 times:

Thanks for all the replies. A lot of good insight!

An interesting post on ConcordeSST by CDG1:

---
This video of FF was out of Honolulu airport. I have been a regular in Hawaii for zillions of years but I can't remember that flight.

There was another Concorde in Honolulu in 1989, a British Airways Concorde on a RTW charter.

This tour was hosted by William F. Buckley Jr. making twelve stops as it proceeded westward round-the-world.
After arriving at Christchurch the Concorde was put on display from April 9/12. Visitors inspecting the aircraft were presented with a large self-adhesive vignette. The Concorde left Christchurch on April 12, 1989 for Sydney and thence to London. Covers were flown to Sydney, including British Airways envelopes with the vignette affixed, and postmarked CHRISTCHURCH on April 12, 1989. They were backstamped at Sydney International Airport on the same date. Special covers were also produced by British Airways and were flown to London where they received an arrival cachet dated April 23, 1989. After the Concorde left Christchurch a section of rudder was lost. There was a "thud" and resultant vibration as the aircraft was climbing
through 43,000 feet and accelerating to Mach 2. Repairs were carried out in Sydney so that the round-the-world charter could continue to London.

Leg #1 Departed London - NY 04/01/89
Leg #2 New York, NY - Acapulco 04/01/89
Leg #3 Acapulco, Mexico - Oakland 04/03/89
Leg #4 Oakland, CA - Honolulu 04/03/89
Leg #5 Honolulu, HI - Papeete 04/05/89
Leg #6 Papeete - Christchurch 04/08/89
Leg #7 Christchurch, New Zealand - Sydney 04/12/89
Leg #8 Sydney, Australia - Perth 04/15/89
Leg #9 Perth, Australia - Colombo 04/15/89
Leg #10 Colombo, Sri Lanka - Mombasa 04/17/89
Leg #11 Mombasa, Kenya - Cape Town 04/20/89
Leg #12 Cape Town, South Africa - Monrovia 04/23/89
Leg #13 Monrovia, Liberia - London 04/23/89
Arrived London

----

Now, THAT'S a routing!


User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 10):
It's probably not well known, but Hawaiian airlines almost had Concorde service of its own.

At least you don't have to imagine what it would have looked like. Anyone have a clip of the "Just Fly It" TV ad Hawaiian had during the 1996 Atlanta Olympic games?


User currently offlineCall911mfc From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
The first time was in Nov/Dec 1986 : F-BVFF . ... OAK-HNL-PPT

I was fortunate enough to see it come in right over my high school on its first trip in to HNL. As if that weren't enough, my high school physiology teacher moonlighted as a pilot for Air Molokai, which was a hangar or two over from the private terminal that AF used. He knew I was a plane nut, so he knew he didn't have to ask me twice if I wanted to come down and get a good look at it.
Once we got to his hangar, he handed me his badge (yes, this was obviously pre-09/11) and told me to walk over to the plane, but not go past the roped off area. I got pretty close and stayed for what seemed like hours. Probably one of the few times in my life I've been left totally speechless.
Happened to be on a hillside above HNL when it departed. No other takeoff has come close to being as beautiful or graceful as that one. Sad they're not flying anymore.


User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4898 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2):
Yes, throughout its career, the Concordes from both BA and AF, performed many round-the-world charter, private and public, that routed through the South Pacific. It used to stop in CHS, and SYD in it's way west/east, and HNL was of the stops it used to make. I remember back in the late 80's where a portion of Concorde's rudder was lost in mid-flight on it's way to HNL. Also, the prototype and preproduction Concordes flew demonstration flight around the globe and they stopped in HNL on the transit flights
www.concordesst.com

Is it just me or do the accidents on the the accident page seem to repeat themselves every couple of months.

Quoting HAL (Reply 10):
It's probably not well known, but Hawaiian airlines almost had Concorde service of its own.

In the late 80's or early 90's (I wasn't there yet, so I don't know the exact time) HA was in talks to lease several Concordes from BA. HA's management had agreed to the terms and was planning on using them for daily premium service from the west coast to Hawaii. It looked like it would work out financially for them, however the sticking point came when HA found out the pilots would have to go to England for up to six months to complete the training course for the aircraft. When HA management added up those costs, they realized that they couldn't afford to pay the pilots for that long without them flying and still make a profit on the service, so they gave up on the idea. It seems silly, but yes, losing that many pilots for that long made the difference.

What would the flight time be from California to HNL? That would have been cool...


User currently onlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2558 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 14):
What would the flight time be from California to HNL?

It would have been just under two hours.

People could have gone - "Let's head over to Honolulu for lunch. We'll be back home in time for dinner!"

HAL

[Edited 2006-09-20 18:13:02]


One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

If EmSeeEye is referring to the rudder de-laminations, well from 1989, they did happen regulary.
So BA ordered 9 new rudder sets from BAe in 1993, not cheap, since the original jigs had been, along with all other Concorde production equipment, scrapped years before.

These events did not constitute a real danger, a slight shudder would be felt in flight, maybe some mild vibration for a time, often not until landing was the cause known.

Back to the new rudders, the original ones lasted around 13 years, though it seems the problem was caused by rudder T/E thinning in 1979-81, as part of a performance enhancing package.

But BAe offered BA a seemingly good deal, 8 sets were required, ditch any warrenty and have one extra for free.
But, the new rudders starting having de-lamination much sooner, later we found that during construction, the new rudders had their bonding material contaminated with oil from the production machinery.
But, with no warrently, no conspensation.
(Years later, the then head of BA Concorde Engineering, commented that those in BA who drew up this contract 'should have been shot'.)

BA conducted non destructive testing to monitor the rudders, recommended was every 32 landings, we did them every 16, with mods this kept the problem in check after a time.
Until one very unexpected one in late 2002-though it turned out BAE had shifted the rudder mod work to Nantes in France, what happened was an example of a bottom of a learning curve for them, with a newly overhauled rudder.

AF did not have any rudder de-lams until early 2003, since by then, their Concorde fleet were at the BA average hours of 1989.
In any case, and unrelated, retirement beckoned.

Had the fleet carried on, BA would have, as part of a general upgrade, brought new rudders, elevons, lower fuselage panels, air intake variable ramps.


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