KhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 425 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5107 times:
You think this will help Aeroflot make up their minds?
Highlight from the story:
"The main private shareholder of Russian airline Aeroflot has signed an agreement to buy 22 Boeing 787 Dreamliners even though the airline itself has made no decision to buy them, a newspaper reported on Tuesday."
"Kommersant daily reported that the National Reserve Corporation (NRC), which owns a 30 percent stake in Aeroflot, signed the deal as a way of keeping Aeroflot's options open in case the airline's full board decides to buy Boeing jets."
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5037 times:
Per aforementioned Reuters article:
... Kommersant said NRC stepped in because the original terms under which Boeing offered to sell the aircraft to Aeroflot were to expire last Friday if no preliminary order was placed.
A source close to NRC told Kommersant the company has already signed a preliminary agreement with Boeing.
"This document outlines the same delivery conditions that had been offered to Aeroflot -- first deliveries starting in 2010 with $10 million discount for every plane," Kommersant quoted the source as saying...
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4052 posts, RR: 91 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4818 times:
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The owner of National Reserve Corp (NRC) Mr Alexander Lebedev has confirmed that NRC have entered into the agreement.
By Lyubov Pronina
Sept. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Russian billionaire Alexander Lebedev, who controls 30 percent of OAO Aeroflot, signed an agreement with Boeing Co. to reserve production slots for 787 planes as the state- controlled airline awaits government approval of the purchase.
Chicago-based Boeing and Moscow-based National Reserve Corp. on yesterday signed an agreement under which National Reserve will keep the slots for 22 of the Dreamliners, Lebedev said today in a telephone interview. Aeroflot's board last postponed a decision on the contract.
``We are helping everyone: Aeroflot, Boeing and the Russian government,'' said Lebedev, who is also a deputy in the lower chamber of the Russian parliament.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 3): news reports are coming in that the Aeroflot board has approved leasing 12 A320s and 6 MD-11Fs.
That's quite interesting as the MD-11Fs were known to be part of the original RFP that Boeing had to meet. In addition there is a further report that they will lease an additional12 MD-11s in 2006/2007
The statement did not specify where Aeroflot would lease the planes. It added that the company had already signed contracts to lease a further 12 MD-11s in 2006-2007
I'd be very interested as to where they have sourced a further 12 MD-11s, I'm assuming MD-11Fs, in that time period?
The reason it is such a clear hint is because from the comments of Mr. Alexander Lebedev it shows he is acting with full approval of the majority owner of SU, the Russian Government, which is not yet in a position to order from Boeing because it is hardly a secret they'd want to order an equal number of planes from Airbus as well. Since the A350XWB is not yet officially available to order, they need to be patient for the A350XWB to get the final go-ahead from the board of EADS. In the mean time however, the very favourable delivery conditions on the 22 787 planes SU got from Boeing were about to expire and it is obvious the Russian government has asked the minority owner of SU to sign for them in order not to loose out, with the agreement to take them over once they have been able to also order from Airbus.
Expect a single official announcement from SU on them ordering BOTH the A350XWB and the 787 only AFTER the A350XWB has received the go-ahead from EADS.
Imagining SU will go for the A350XWB-900 (which is most likely), it looks like an almost identical scenario of that at SQ is unfolding; the only difference here is that at SU politics dictate both orders to be announced together, rather than one before the other.
Also, I read this as more confirmation the 787 and A350XWB are not really competitors, but rather supplementary aircraft, with the 787 more of an A330/767 replacement and the A350XWB an A340/777 replacement.
You're most welcome sir and thank you for an excellent response outlining the rational behind Mr Lebedevs comments and I concur that he would not have made those comments without the tacit authority of the Russian Government.
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5): Expect a single official announcement from SU on them ordering BOTH the A350XWB and the 787 only AFTER the A350XWB has received the go-ahead from EADS.
Exactly, I don't feel that an SU A350XWB commitment will be announced in conjunction with the Industrial Launch of the project after todays development. Rather, we'll see a joint announcement as you suggest shortly thereafter. It will be interesting to see whether their choice of models will be similar to SQ (789 & A350-900) or if they take a mix of 788s and the A359XWB as the 789 is not available for delivery in 2010 except for AirNZ in December.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4542 times:
I would temper some of the enthusiasm with a caveat here. Pres. Putin will be visiting Paris this week and high on his agenda will be the case for Russia's management participation in EADS. The potential A350XWB order is one of the cards he's holding. A rebuff, like the one issued that EADS issued earlier (while we welcome the investment, we like the board structure the way it is, thank you) could jeapordize the A350XWB's chances of ever flying in SU colors. (Of course, the same could be said of the U.S. reluctance to cave into Russian demands on WTO membership!).
Seldom does an order for commercial aircraft go "political" to this extent!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4439 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7): I would temper some of the enthusiasm with a caveat here. Pres. Putin will be visiting Paris this week and high on his agenda will be the case for Russia's management participation in EADS.
PARIS (Dow Jones)--French Finance Minister Thierry Breton Tuesday said the shareholders' pact related to Franco-German firm European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. won't be called into question.
It follows media reports that a Russian state-controlled bank might try to acquire a blocking minority holding in EADS.
"There's a shareholders' pact that is extremely solid and that nothing can call into question," Breton said on French radio BFM. "Things are clear," he said...
...EADS Co-Chairmen Arnaud Lagardere and Manfred Bischoff Friday said that while the group welcomes any new investor in its capital, it has no intention of its changing corporate-governance rules to let a new shareholder in the pact...
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28467 posts, RR: 84 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9): Good heavens! As if EADS doesn't have enough problems splitting management between Germany & France. Now add Russia to the mix?? Can't wait to see how that works out!
Well I have been informed that CASA has a single seat on the EADS board with their 5% share with Germany and France each having five (with one of each serving as co-Chairmen). So a Russian seat would require either France or Germany give up one of their five seats, or an additional seat would need to be added, moving the board to 12 and therefore setting up the possibility of a tie.
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4052 posts, RR: 91 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2266 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2): Anyway, I think this is the clearest hint the order WILL be split indeed....
It would appear your statement has been validated by Aeroflot sir;
"What we are talking about is buying both Boeing and Airbus. From 2010-2012, 22 Boeings, and from 2012-2016, 22 Airbuses," Aeroflot Chief Executive Valery Okulov told reporters at an economic forum in the Siberian city of Irkutsk on Wednesday.
Okulov said state-controlled Aeroflot had already closed tender talks with Boeing to buy 22 Dreamliners, while negotiations on buying the Airbus A350s would continue.
"We proposed to Boeing and Airbus that we proceed to preparing contract documents -- but with Airbus we will have to rework the terms," Okulov said.
Thank you for a civil conversation and lets hope this all get's finalised so we can see SU build it's fleet. I'm still interested in the report on the extra MD-11Fs and as to where they can lease an extra 12 over the next year.