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Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash  
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17571 times:

10 SEP 2006 Biman pilot sacked over DC-10 crash
Biman Bangladesh Airlines has sacked a pilot from service as an inquiry found him responsible for the DC-10 aircraft accident last year at Chittagong. An official of Biman said the inquiry did not find any technical fault of the aircraft, and attributed the accident to inefficiency of the pilot. (The Daily Star)

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1691

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17301 times:

Is there a full report available?????

Cheers,


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17270 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Thread starter):
and attributed the accident to inefficiency of the pilot.

"Inefficiency" is an interesting term to use. Sounds really Politically Correct. Why don't they just say he made a serious operational error or that he F'ed up.


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16657 times:

Biman flight 048 departed Dubai for a regular flight to Chittagong and Dhaka, Bangladesh. Weather at Chittagong was poor. When the DC-10 approached the airport (08:50 local, 02:50 UTC), the METAR read: VGEG 010250Z 18006KT 1800 RAIN BKN007 SCT013 FEW026CB OVC080 26/25 Q100 3 TEMPO
S/VIS 2KM OR LESS= (wind 180 degrees at 6 kts, visibility 1800m, rain, 5-7 oktas cloud at 700ft, 3-4 oktas cloud at 1300ft, 0-2 oktas cloud at 2600ft with thunder clouds 8 oktas overcast cloud at 8000ft, temperature 26C dewpoint 25C temporarily visibility 2 km).
The aircraft touched down on runway 23 but ran off the right side of the runway, into the grass. The right hand undercarriage collapsed and the plane sank a meter-deep into the mud, causing the severe damage to the right hand wing and the separation of the nr. 3 engine. The airplane came to rest 7300 ft from the runway 23 threshold. Chittagong has a single runway (05/23) which measures 9646 x 150 feet.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20050701-0&lang=en

More below. Possable alcohol involved

The action taken against the pilot is also a warning to others negligent to their duties, some Biman officials said


http://www.thedailystar.net/2006/09/10/d60910012515.htm

[Edited 2006-09-19 19:48:55]

User currently onlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1880 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16439 times:

I might not know a lot about accidents and pilot error, but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers. It seems like a weather related problem and caused by poor weather. Plus, the planes are very old and weathered, so this can also be a cause.


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16135 times:
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Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

TIS



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User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9534 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15860 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

 confused  Are you saying all pilots are flawless?


User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13323 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

TIS

Or rather, that is one theory. Not everyone buys that story though, but I guess that's for another topic.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13282 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

Are you saying all pilots are flawless?

I didn't get that from his comment, I would interpret that as meaning most pilots are not careless.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9534 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12487 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 8):
I would interpret that as meaning most pilots are not careless.



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

I took it to mean either that no pilot would ever allow themselves to be under the influence of alcohol while flying (which we know not to be the case) or no pilot would ever make a mistake that leads to the aircraft running into the grass on landing (which we also know not to be the case). It might not be what was meant but it is what was said.


User currently offlineDeltaJet757 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12344 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
I might not know a lot about accidents and pilot error, but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers. It seems like a weather related problem and caused by poor weather. Plus, the planes are very old and weathered, so this can also be a cause.

 checkmark 

true.

Although wouldn't the pilot have tried to correct the position of the plane on the runway?

-DeltaJet757



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9534 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11958 times:

Quoting DeltaJet757 (Reply 10):
true.

I don't get this. Are you two questioning the accident report?  confused 


User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10569 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Are you saying all pilots are flawless?

I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.
But there are exceptions to every rule, but extremely rare.


User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10423 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
"Inefficiency" is an interesting term to use. Sounds really Politically Correct. Why don't they just say he made a serious operational error or that he F'ed up.

In certain arenas of communication, there is a professional way to discuss things. This is one of them. A "serious operation error" could have been used but F'ed up is not a professional from of communication.

Regards



If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10120 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

This is unproven and there is simply not enough information to fully understand the actions logged into the flight recorders from that crash.

SparkingWave ~~~



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineBiman From Bangladesh, joined Sep 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

I am new here ..
You might be interested in reading an article I wrote in the days following the accident: http://www.newagebd.com/2005/jul/06/fb.html

Big version: Width: 450 Height: 299 File size: 16kb
Photograph courtesy of New Age newspaper, Bangladesh


User currently offlineBOACVC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7848 times:

Quoting Biman (Reply 15):
am new here ..
You might be interested in reading an article I wrote in the days following the accident:


Welcome to A.net. May I suggest to the original poster wo initiated the thread to perhaps change the header to "Pilot fired over Biman DC-10 Crash" to make it stand out. Or the poster could choose to use the Biman Bangladesh Airlines code BG somewhere in the title to bring attention to which airline you are talking about.


AFAIK, typically Biman management never had the political will to blame one of its pilots, (F-28, F-27 crashes prior to 2005 have always been blamed on mechanical issues) and most of the decisions have always revolved around (1) Insurance claims (2) plans for salvage, if any (3) nepotism, connections of the pilots.


Do you have any information for A.net if the situation has changed at all internally? Is Biman now being run more professionally ?

Also, in case of Pilot Error, would Biman receive any compensation for the Write-off of the A/C ?

[Edited 2006-09-20 07:51:26]


Up, up and Away!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9534 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5786 times:

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 12):
I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.

OK. I get it. A bit redundant, though, don't you think?  Smile


User currently offlineBiman From Bangladesh, joined Sep 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 16):



Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 16):
Do you have any information for A.net if the situation has changed at all internally? Is Biman now being run more professionally ?

Read this:

http://www.thedailystar.net/2006/09/14/d609141501133.htm

They have cut three of the loss making domestic routes (Rajshahi, Saidpur and Bogra) and two loss making routes (New York, Frankfurt) as part of new "austerity measures".

The short answer to your question is a categorical "no" ... makes me very sad as a Bangladeshi  Sad


User currently onlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1880 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4612 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

There has been no proof for this. Another theory was that is was bombed from the surface by a missile--yet another was the suicide.

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Are you saying all pilots are flawless?

No, but I think the bottom quote said what I meant.

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 12):
I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.
But there are exceptions to every rule, but extremely rare.

 Smile



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9534 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4586 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 19):
No, but I think the bottom quote said what I meant.

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 12):
I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.
But there are exceptions to every rule, but extremely rare.

OK but isn't that just something we all know, like "manufacturers don't deliberately build aircraft with faults"? I also don't understand why you went on to say this:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
It seems like a weather related problem and caused by poor weather. Plus, the planes are very old and weathered, so this can also be a cause.

As far as I know
  • no-one suggested the pilot crashed the plane deliberately
  • neither weather nor aircraft malfunction were considered by the investigators to have contributed to the accident.


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 19):
There has been no proof for this. Another theory was that is was bombed from the surface by a missile--yet another was the suicide.

The cockpit voice recorder shows that the Egypt Air pilot was the one who brought down the plane. I read the transcript of that particular crash after 9/11 and it gave me chills. There is no doubt in my mind that the Egypt pilot crashed that plane on purpose.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the EgyptAir flight 990 accident is the airplane's departure from normal cruise flight and subsequent impact with the Atlantic Ocean as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs. The reason for the relief first officer's actions was not determined.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm

[Edited 2006-09-21 18:27:42]

User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9534 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 21):
There is no doubt in my mind that the Egypt pilot crashed that plane on purpose.

Absolutely. It was the operation of the fuel cut-off levers that clinched it for me. I'm pretty sure there's no procedure that calls for that in mid-flight.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7754 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Biman

Welcome to A.net.

Given that the plane was going to be scrapped soon anyway, I suppose that they scrapped it after this mishap. Or is it still sitting there.

I understand from the aviation safety net report that it is 7,300 feet from the threshold, but how far, (in a straight line) is it from the closest part of the runway?. Given that the runway is 8,900 feet, it could theoretically be actually ON the runay and be 7,300 feet from the threshold.

David


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