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LH To Place Long Haul Order In Dec. Won't Cut A380  
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12537 times:

Just saw on Bloomberg and will post a link when I can.

Fair Use Excerpt:

Lufthansa May Order More Aircraft in December, Won't Cut A380s


By Susanna Ray
Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's
second-biggest airline, may decide in December on an order for
long-distance aircraft, following a decision yesterday to buy 35
mostly short-haul Airbus SAS planes.
The carrier is considering Airbus's proposed A350XWB
airliner and Boeing Co.'s 747-800, 787 and 777-300ER models, Nico
Buchholz, Lufthansa's fleet manager, said in an interview in
Frankfurt today. The airline will stick with an order for 15
Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to
buy any more, he said......``The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.
``We may not be extremely happy about the delay, but the
long-term planning won't change,'' he said.


[Edited 2006-09-21 16:35:24]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12439 times:

Uh, are they aware of the new delays announced today on the A-380??


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12355 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 1):
Uh, are they aware of the new delays announced today on the A-380??

Oh, you know, I bet someone within LH has an a.net membership, so they'll probably have read it here...  Yeah sure

Take your guess whether or not they know about the delay... heavens... the questions on here sometimes never cease to amaze me...  Yeah sure



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31212 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12281 times:
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Yes I am sure LH is aware of the A380 delay and, like EK, they're probably too committed to the plane to walk away from it.

However, this latest delay could end up being "good" news for Airbus in that they're going to have to appease LH even more, and knocking another few million off each A350 frame plus some additional model-specific incentives may very well lock LH into picking the A350, even if they were originally looking at the 787.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4210 posts, RR: 89
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12281 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Nico Buchholz, Lufthansa's fleet manager, said in an interview in Frankfurt today. The airline will stick with an order for 15 Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to buy any more, he said......``The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.

I find that quote most interesting in that they will stay with their original commitment but not exercise any options despite having stated in the past that they had the intention to do so. Perhaps once the air is cleared on the A380 delays they may then proceed to exercise options. If not, this could open the door for Boeing and the 748i or perhaps even the 773ER

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12261 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
The airline will stick with an order for 15
Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to
buy any more, he said......``The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.

I find it curious that LH would make such a statement considering the 748 is said to be still in the running. LH would not win anything by claiming at this stage of the purchase process that they wont order more A380's.

Yesterday a LH spokesman was quoted saying...


"The airline is in talks about adding long-haul capacity with Airbus's A380 and A350XWB models and Boeing's 747-800, 787 and 777-300ER aircraft, and will place an order this year, Goentgens said by telephone. The models are all twin-aisle aircraft."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=a.vKaQ0DlSvM



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User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12227 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 5):
I find it curious that LH would make such a statement considering the 748 is said to be still in the running. LH would not win anything by claiming at this stage of the purchase process that they wont order more A380's.

I think this was a slip indicating that Boeing was never really in the running. As Stitch said, LH is facing an Airbus offer they'll not be able to refuse. I think we'll likely see a repeat of SQ, from "we're going to sue Airbus" to "delays are frustrating but necessary."


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12206 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
However, this latest delay could end up being "good" news for Airbus in that they're going to have to appease LH even more, and knocking another few million off each A350 frame plus some additional model-specific incentives may very well lock LH into picking the A350, even if they were originally looking at the 787.

Actually the opposite might occur in that LH seeing that they are too exposed to Airbus, might acutally give Boeing the 787 and 748I order.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31212 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12134 times:
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Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Actually the opposite might occur in that LH seeing that they are too exposed to Airbus, might acutally give Boeing the 787 and 748I order.

Well I did note in another thread that I wondered if the A380's delays have affected those customer's views towards the A350, which is also supposed to have very fancy lighting and IFE which will require significant wiring.

As always, the decision on what plane to take is going to come down to economics. However, where the A380 (and the A330 add-ons) had no direct competition, the A350 does. Even if Airbus makes a better offer with the A350 to SQ and LH and EK then Boeing does with the 787, those airlines may worry that if that program's EIS is delayed years, the window of opportunity their 787-flying competition may open could be too wide to close and they choose to pay more now for the 787 for the more sure RoI.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12091 times:

Don´t see LH get B773ER when they got 11+ A346 (16 all together?)

Micke//  Smile



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4210 posts, RR: 89
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12069 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 9):
16 all together?)

IIRC it's 10 + 7 for 17 total sir

PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11990 times:

I have said on this forum that there is no way that LH would order a Boing jet for various reasons. Yestersay seemed to have bourne that out but with today's development I think that now Boeing does have more than decent shot of getting most if not all the WB order from Lufthansa.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11779 times:

My guess:

A359 to replace the A343s
A3510 for expansion
B747-8 to fill the gap between A346/A3510 and A380
B747-8F as their sole future cargo plane.

A343, 744 and MD-11F will have to go.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11757 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
B747-8F as their sole future cargo plane.

I'm still not convinced they'll be going for the "one size fits all" method again... I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of B777/B748 or A35F/B748 ordered... but I guess we'll just have to see what happens...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11708 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 13):
I'm still not convinced they'll be going for the "one size fits all" method again... I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of B777/B748 or A35F/B748 ordered... but I guess we'll just have to see what happens...

OK, maybe they'll also order a smaller freighter than the 747-8F. But they are very expensive, more MD-11s (if available) might be a better solution.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11691 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
A359 to replace the A343s
A3510 for expansion
B747-8 to fill the gap between A346/A3510 and A380
B747-8F as their sole future cargo plane.

This sounds reasonable, added with the A350F as Leskova described.



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7081 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11672 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Nico Buchholz, Lufthansa's fleet manager, said in an interview in Frankfurt today. The airline will stick with an order for 15 Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to buy any more, he said......``The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.

I find that quote most interesting in that they will stay with their original commitment but not exercise any options despite having stated in the past that they had the intention to do so. Perhaps once the air is cleared on the A380 delays they may then proceed to exercise options. If not, this could open the door for Boeing and the 748i or perhaps even the 773ER

I agree with you on that. I think most interesting thing is that Buchholz did not mention the A380 to be part of the order that is to be announced in December:

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
The carrier is considering Airbus's proposed A350XWB
airliner and Boeing Co.'s 747-800, 787 and 777-300ER models, Nico
Buchholz, Lufthansa's fleet manager, said in an interview in

Before additional A380s were always mentioned when speaking of this order.
One reason why did not order the 747-8 just yet is because they don´t know what Boeing intends to. Will they stretch the 747-8I further and become closer towards the A380 in capacity or will they stay with the original size.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 13):
I'm still not convinced they'll be going for the "one size fits all" method again... I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of B777/B748 or A35F/B748 ordered... but I guess we'll just have to see what happens...

There was an article in July from ATW Online posted here were they quoted an LH Cargo Manager (don´t remember the name) who said that they only want to have a single type fleet.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 11):
I have said on this forum that there is no way that LH would order a Boing jet for various reasons. Yestersay seemed to have bourne that out but with today's development I think that now Boeing does have more than decent shot of getting most if not all the WB order from Lufthansa.

I also think so that LH will give a decent share of its WB order to Boeing.
During the last months I only thought that they will go for the 747-8 only since the 787 is too small for them and the A350XWB seemed to be taylor made for them but know I can see them ordering a mix of 777/787 or like SQ and SU 787s and A350s.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11645 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
I agree with you on that. I think most interesting thing is that Buchholz did not mention the A380 to be part of the order that is to be announced in December:

I think that makes perfect sense. They have 15 on order and a further 10 options. Considering that they have only 30 B744s, a fleet of 25 A380s should be enough for a very long time. They'll convert the options at some point after the EIS, but I don't think they'll buy new ones for a very long time.


User currently offlineScaledesigns From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11411 times:

Well LH stick with Airbus for the narrow body fleet.No suprise.
I still think LH will buy 777s for the present,and some 787s.The A350 is to far in the future(maybe 10 years the way things are going at Airbus)They will order A350s for the future longhaul,but they wont get them for a long time so the 777 order does make sense.The A340s will be sold ASAP(maybe as trade in to Boeing or Airbus).Sound familiar ?Why cant it happen at LH also?
Most likely the 748 will also be ordered.The LH A380 order
will never be cancelled even if is delayed much longer.



F1 Tommy
User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 914 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11328 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
I also think so that LH will give a decent share of its WB order to Boeing.
During the last months I only thought that they will go for the 747-8 only since the 787 is too small for them and the A350XWB seemed to be taylor made for them but know I can see them ordering a mix of 777/787 or like SQ and SU 787s and A350s.

But if the 787 is too small for them before, why isn't it now? I don't see a split between 787s and 350s as likely for LH because a) they don't have as many planes they want to replace in the near future (and they aren't going to do it for the politics like SU) and b) I wonder if SQ had been able to get the same deal from airbus and the 350xwb had been on offer when they bought from airbus, would they have gone with 358s instead of 789s? I don't know one way or the other and I think that the two planes they bought can complement each other with the large number that SQ will likely end up with (40 of each).

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 18):
hey will order A350s for the future longhaul,but they wont get them for a long time so the 777 order does make sense.

I believe that this is only true if airbus goes for the 787. The 350s won't be too far into the future, particularly since LH would likely go for some 359s which will be the first delivered. And the added expense of adding 777s into the fleet (with the hefty premium that these planes will add and given that the 350/787-10/Y3 will easily obsolete them) wouldn't make sense to me unless they go for other airbus widebodies. Add in the fact that they are still going to be adding 330s (all of which are already on the newer side) and the 346 fleet being quite young... The 777s would be such an oddball in the fleet, that I can't see them using them as a stopgap. There is no doubt that the newest generation 777s are more efficient for most operations than the 340s, but the 346s aren't exactly the biggest fuel hogs in the world. While it hurts the bottom line in day to day operations, you do save money in not implementing a new fleet type, new cockpit, etc. for some temporary measure. One of the things that got brushed aside a bit in the AC deal was the fact that some of the efficiency savings are offset by other costs. Of course, the 350 offering at the time didn't help the calculations.

cheers.


User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11080 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
B747-8F as their sole future cargo plane.

A343, 744 and MD-11F will have to go.



Quoting Thorben (Reply 14):
OK, maybe they'll also order a smaller freighter than the 747-8F. But they are very expensive, more MD-11s (if available) might be a better solution.

LH Cargo is NOT going to order any freighters (esp. not new ones) for the time being.
Feasible solution for the short term might be the conversion of some 744s once they are taken out of passenger service (which is not going to happen too soon, either).



Time waits for nobody
User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 914 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10946 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
A343, 744 and MD-11F will have to go.

Eventually everything has to go. But some of the 343s and 744s are pretty young. LH can clearly replace some of their older 343s with 333s when the extra range isn't needed in the near term.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
B747-8 to fill the gap between A346/A3510 and A380

If Boeing decides to go with the stretched version of the 748i, I still don't buy that they will go for it. The gap between the 748i and 380 would, then, likely be too small to justify a small fleet of them (even if they go for the 748F, because a small fleet would result in scheduling problems with crews, etc. if one goes mx).

Clearly, we can't think of these purchases as independent. A 748i might be more likely if they go with 787s, etc. $$$ will be a factor in the whole thing.

cheers.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7081 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10238 times:

Quoting Dank (Reply 19):
But if the 787 is too small for them before, why isn't it now?

They have said the -9 is the minimum they would get and they would prefer a stretched version the -10. Let´s see and wait what Boeing is offering them. LIke you said $$ will be a huge factor.
But I think this delay has shown that you can not necessarily rely on one manufacturer and that you need options.
LH had a positive experience with a mixed A320/737 fleet for nearly 20 years now, AF is happy with a mixed A330, A340 and 777 fleet, before they used 767 together with Airbus widebodies, SQ and SU will operate 777 and A350s together.

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 20):
LH Cargo is NOT going to order any freighters (esp. not new ones) for the time being.

Sorry this is completely wrong. See below:

Quote:

Lufthansa Cargo is evaluating replacement of its 19 MD-11 freighters, which have an average age of eight years, as it looks to brace itself for tough competition in the years ahead."Maybe during this year, but at the latest in 2007, we have to make a decision," Executive Board Member-Operations Karl-Heinz Koepfle told ATWOnline in Frankfurt. He didn't specify a possible replacement type but admitted, "there is not much choice anyway." The 747-400ERF, 747-8 or 777F are LHC's most realistic options.
Koepfle said the 747 must have a nose door to be considered and that LHC no longer wants a mixed freighter fleet and is not interested in passenger-to-freighter conversions like several of the MD-11Fs it currently operates.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=5707



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12766 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10107 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
B747-8 to fill the gap between A346/A3510 and A380

But, if Boeing does increase the size of the 748i, it will be too close in capacity to the A380. I would be very surprised to see any airline that has the A380 on order take a larger 748i.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10051 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
Sorry this is completely wrong. See below:

Quote:

Lufthansa Cargo is evaluating replacement of its 19 MD-11 freighters, which have an average age of eight years, as it looks to brace itself for tough competition in the years ahead."Maybe during this year, but at the latest in 2007, we have to make a decision," Executive Board Member-Operations Karl-Heinz Koepfle told ATWOnline in Frankfurt. He didn't specify a possible replacement type but admitted, "there is not much choice anyway." The 747-400ERF, 747-8 or 777F are LHC's most realistic options.
Koepfle said the 747 must have a nose door to be considered and that LHC no longer wants a mixed freighter fleet and is not interested in passenger-to-freighter conversions like several of the MD-11Fs it currently operates.


http://www.atwonline.com/news/story....=5707

Given the operating profit that LH Cargo currently has, any new freighter purchase would increase depreciation far too much to finish the year with at least a bearable loss;
Needless to say: LH Cargo would lose liquidity if it purchased now and/or potentially even in 2007.
For sure, LCAG is "evaluating"; this evaluation has been going on for at least two to three years now.
A freighter fleet with an average age of 8 years is rather "fresh" so also from that perspective there is no need for us to purchase new planes, even if we could afford it!

Cheers,
Lp0815



Time waits for nobody
25 Columba : Keep in mind that LH Cargo is facing a hard competition and all of its competitioners are using 747-400Fs. Sometimes in order to make a profit you ha
26 Lp0815 : Economically an interesting statement. However, seen from a corporate governance point of view..... Anyway, if LCAG could afford that risk, maybe LCA
27 Columba : That is why I am assuming that they will try to jump on the LH passenger order. They would definitely get a better deal that way rather than to wait
28 Lp0815 : Your assumption, however, is wrong! If they ordered this year they would be in an even worse position than next year; and while LCAG is 100% owned by
29 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : Thank you sir. The statement from Mr Buchholz was notable and it is one of substance as it was the first of it's nature from them. They have time wit
30 Jush : Yeah taht assumed Boeing won't have any delays in production and certification. Yet I don't believe that cause Boeing is building an aircraft from th
31 Columba : Sure they act independently but Mr. Mayrhuber and the board also will have to say a little word here and even if not LH Cargo management would be foo
32 F22KA : None of the European airliners who have ordered the 380 are going to ask nor accept any compensations as a result of the delays. Just watch and see...
33 ZRH : I am always wondering why airlines should cancel because of the delay. The A 380 still stays most probably an excellent aircraft. There is also no ot
34 UA933 : In its size the A380 can't be replaced with any other a/c so my guess is that LH will order even more when they decide by year-end. My money are on a/
35 Thorben : Boeing talks only about stretching the 747-8 to the length of the freighter (76m). Those two meters would only increase the capacity from 450 to 480
36 UA933 : I agree that 35 might seem a little to much at the moment but LH said they wanted to increase int. capacity and in a couple of year 2010 and after th
37 N328KF : Do you seriously mean to suggest that just because EADS/Airbus has lost some of their business sense regarding the A380, that the management of Air F
38 Tom_EDDF : May I remind you, the EU is not the Sovjet Union and we're not in the 1970's or 1980's... Neither are Lufthansa nor Air France state owned kolkhozes.
39 Post contains links Columba : I have just fund another LH thread with an article from aviationow. Since this thread was not very popular (only 4 replies) I will post a part of the
40 Dank : I was responding to your comment in the same line that suggested that you thought that LH thinks that the 787 was too small, but you see them orderin
41 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Says who? I didn't know that the EU owns and runs all these airlines... PH
42 Columba : Well they said the -9 is the minimum for them and if Boeing comes up with a -10 I can see them ordering it.
43 Thorben : OK, but 35 A380, 25 747-8, and 20 A350-1000? Plus A346 and A359? Still seems too much to me. I think it will depend on how plans to expand FRA are go
44 Zvezda : Airbus will not make such a grevious mistake again. Also, the wiring of the A350 will be simpler than for the WhaleJet.
45 LTU932 : Why SXF? Don't you mean TXL or eventually the new BBI?
46 Justloveplanes : Things are pretty fluid now, so it's hard to say with certainty how accurate these articles are in December, but I think what you said about the 748
47 Post contains links Columba : Boeing statement on LH´s Airbus order: http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...ING-LUFTHANSA.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna
48 Johnny : I am really getting tired of the argumentation that the B787 is coming out 4 years earlier than the A350.That is correct - if LH would be interested i
49 Stitch : Well perhaps the 787-8 would offer LH opportunities they couldn't exploit with the A332? Yes, I know they are "on record" for stating they only want t
50 Keesje : What opportunties could tht be? I think the 787 was very much a reaction on the A330 and has about the same dimensions, capasity, configuration, pric
51 Thorben : I mean SXF. TXL will be closed sooner or later and the new BBI will be in SXF. That's the reason they want the A380. Less dependancy on Airbus, crew
52 Post contains images Johnny : "...crew commonality with 747-8." I expected that the Crews of the B744 and B748 will share a common rating.How should that work for the B787 as well?
53 Zvezda : The B787 costs much less to manufacture than the A330 has lower operating costs and much greater range.
54 Post contains links Jacobin777 : "With more pre-flight orders than any widebody in history, the 787 has transformed Boeing�s fortunes. But the twinjet is a game-changer in other
55 Columba : There was once an article in one of these endless LH order threads which said that LH wanted that the 747-8 will have cockpit commonality with the 77
56 Post contains links and images Keesje : We had some discussion before.. http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ion/read.main/2664716/6/#ID2664716 The 787 will be more efficient then its pre
57 BrightCedars : I can't see Lufthansa order the Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental. Their older Boeing 747-400s - the part of that fleet that is used for high capacity - w
58 Columba : Well despite of what you believe or not LH is very seriously looking at both the 777-300ER and the 747-8I to replace their 747s. Since the fleet plan
59 Thorben : see 747-8, 777NG, and 787 will have cockpit commonality. I'm not sure about 744 and 747-8. I think the 77W can be ruled out. LH currently has in the
60 Post contains images USAF336TFS : That's news to most of us... How many days does it have?
61 Post contains images Keesje : Not sure about this, did Boeing say this? At first look the 744 & 748 lok very common & the 787 very different.
62 Airevents : I think a major argument in favour of a Boeing order may be the fact that Boeing is cancelling its Connexion by Boeing programme, of which LH was one
63 Johnny : @Airevents No, that looks like another disadvantage to me.It reminds me about the situation after Boeing canceled the MD-Stetch which LH wanted to ord
64 Dank : I don't believe that actual range is the real issue. Increased range = better payload at the dges of range on less capable aircraft. I think this is
65 Thorben : I don't think there will be many deliveries after the EIS of the A350. So there are about 6-8 years left. If Airbus manages to deliver on time. I rea
66 PADSpot : I think (and always thought) the same, but what bugs me is that it is LH people who continuously bring the 773ER into the discussion ... for me (or e
67 Art : Having identified the basic problem with A380 wiring (always assuming that Al instead of Cu is not the cause) lying in their design software not bein
68 EDDB : Highly unlikely, since there are no same type ratings for different aircraft! Even not at Airbus... It's only about reducing transition training! If
69 Post contains images EDDB : You mean like getting a free A350 as a compensation for A380 delay? I think you get my point... Absofu....lutely! Which (the A380) Mr. Mayrhuber incl
70 Post contains images Zvezda : Absolutely true, except that LH might want the lift sooner. The B777 is available at least 4 years sooner than the A350. No chance. It depends on the
71 Stitch : I certainly hope so. Pygmalion has noted they're still wresting with the system on the A400M project, but I do agree that the later EIS of the A350XW
72 Jacobin777 : Respectfully disagree Zvezda... "Airbus concedes that the A340-500/600 family had a less than perfect introduction, and lays much of the blame on the
73 Thorben : Might be a negociating tactic. EK figured that they won't have both models. EY took the 777, because they could get it sooner, QR probably didn't wan
74 Zvezda : I wouldn't rule that out. LH might get a great deal.
75 Post contains images Johnny : "If they need it sooner, they should take EK's A346." My thought as well!!!
76 PADSpot : Negotiation tactic for even more than 17 A346? They had to be cheap then ... ergo coming from EK. But then you don't need tactics such as bringing th
77 Post contains images Columba : Might also be LH´s choice "B" if the 747-8I will not come out as good as promised. Fact is that LH does not want to come to be dependant on Airbus.
78 Post contains images Columba : also a good idea
79 EDDB : Priority is a 343 replacement, not the 744! The 744 replacement is top of the agenda for most a.netters but not for LH...
80 Columba : When I read this quote.... and also read this article from September 21st: I get the assumption that the longhaul order in December will only be for
81 Leskova : Is Boeing selling the B748I for that much more than the B744? Because currently, as far as I remember the reports around the time Boeing began offeri
82 EDDB : AFAIK it is not even a sure thing that there will be a 744 replacement, cause if LH decides they could live with the gap between 346 and 380, we will
83 Post contains links PADSpot : List prices for the B773ER are 237.0 - 264.5 mil$ opposed to 272.5 - 282.5 mil$ for the B748I. B744 are at 216.0 - 247.5 mil$. Source: http://www.boe
84 USAF336TFS : I know what LH is saying publicly, but privately, this must be having some effect on their long term fleet planning, given the revised-again A380 deli
85 Johnny : I could imagine that IF LH will get a sweet deal for additional A346 (most probably ex EK - if they do not take them...) they could easily live with t
86 Zvezda : Both the A350 and B787 are well suited for LH's operational requirements. LH will choose whichever one is the better deal financially. Politics will
87 Columba : Since the CEO of EADS said today in the Financial Times Germany that they will rethink the launch of the A350XWB to see if there are similar problems
88 Post contains images Johnny : Probably LH will split its order like follows: B783/9 to replace their A300-600 and A343 A350-1000x to replace their B744 and A346 A333 can stay for a
89 PADSpot : On their A330 and A340 LH utilizes extremely low density configurations. 221 pax in an A333 or 247 in an A343 is not particulary much. It's not surpr
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