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NZ To End RAR-LAX Flights?  
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

Hear that this may be announced shortly, not, however, in relation to PPT-LAX. Does this mean the AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX 767 flight will become AKL-PPT-LAX? What about the once weekly RAR-NAN-AKL?
Who would/could/should take over the RAR-LAX sector?

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

Maybe NZ1 can shed some light here?

Maybe it'll become AKL-RAR-HNL with an A320 and AKL-LAX-PPT-GIG return with an NZ 772; the direct AKL-PPT being taken up with a codeshare using TN metal. Direct HNL could be dropped and picked up using A320 one stops via RAR, APW and TBU.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9263 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 1):
Maybe it'll become AKL-RAR-HNL with an A320

This would seem to be a more cost effective utilization. One question though, what is the demand for RAR from HNL? Wouldnt APW be a better option?

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 1):
AKL-LAX-PPT-GIG return with an NZ 772

AKL-GRU-GIG, would be a much smoother, and cost efficient use of a 777-200. American Airlines would be sure to sink their teeth into LAX-GIG with a 763 (a far stetch of the imagination) before NZ forecasts the route. However, arent JJ and Ocean Air Brazil looking at LAX?


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9200 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
This would seem to be a more cost effective utilization. One question though, what is the demand for RAR from HNL? Wouldnt APW be a better option?

Well, it's another option. I suggested that NZ may look at APW, TBU and RAR as stopping points for HNL flights. There are currently 3 x 763 flights weekly going AKL-HNL. Apparently these have been underperforming for sometime. The attraction for Kiwis to Hawai'i has diminished as the South Pacific's increased, but Pacific Islanders travel to Hawai'i and Hawai'ian tourists like to visit the South Pacific. Why not replace the 3 x 763 direct flights with 3 or 4 one-stop flights through the Samoa, Tonga and the Cooks?

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
AKL-GRU-GIG, would be a much smoother, and cost efficient use of a 777-200. American Airlines would be sure to sink their teeth into LAX-GIG with a 763 (a far stetch of the imagination) before NZ forecasts the route.

I'd mentioned this because there had been talk in the past about NZ wanting to keep the PPT-LAX leg (PPT to AKL via RAR has been underperforming) and the possibility of a TN/NZ codeshare to South America, specifically GIG. This wouldn't be for taking passengers from LAX to GIG, rather passengers from GIG and LAX to and from PPT. Not my idea, just what others had pontificated about previously, but has some merit.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9191 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
This wouldn't be for taking passengers from LAX to GIG, rather passengers from GIG and LAX to and from PPT. Not my idea, just what others had pontificated about previously, but has some merit.

The O/D from GIG to PPT is slim to none. Oddly enough I have seen a good number of Brasilians in Hawaii (namely Maui and Oahu) since there are large ex-pat Brasilians there. However, stranger things have happened such as PTY-LAX on BR, and LAX-MEX on MH.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9177 times:

This is where I wish NZ had bought 73Gs and NGs, so they could operate long range Pacific flights. IMO one of these configured well could succeed on an AKL-Islands-LAX flight. A320 hasn't the range for this and the 767's could be better utilised.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 1):
AKL-LAX-PPT-GIG

Would this be viable? It seems as though there is a massive backtrack; and what would the timing be like? The order still hasn't come through.. And if it includes some planes of the direct AKL-South America range/ETOPS capability, let's hope they fly there direct.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9148 times:

im not sure where your getting your sorces from, the PPT flights are being looked at, tho nothing firm yet, might be something after the weekend , and at present HNL is staying put with 763's operations,

oh well back to the classroom for some more training hehheheh!!



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineNZ1 From Australia, joined May 2004, 2277 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9118 times:
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Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 1):
Maybe NZ1 can shed some light here?

Would love to, just can't at the moment sorry!!

NZ1


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9097 times:
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Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
However, arent JJ and Ocean Air Brazil looking at LAX?

Ocean Air, but only with stop at BOG.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 4):
I'd mentioned this because there had been talk in the past about NZ wanting to keep the PPT-LAX leg (PPT to AKL via RAR has been underperforming) and the possibility of a TN/NZ codeshare to South America, specifically GIG. This wouldn't be for taking passengers from LAX to GIG, rather passengers from GIG and LAX to and from PPT. Not my idea, just what others had pontificated about previously, but has some merit.

If there is a route GIG-LAX for sure will be interesting without RG service. California is a growing partner for Brazil and a 2 to 3 weekly flights will be profitable.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 4):
The O/D from GIG to PPT is slim to none. Oddly enough I have seen a good number of Brasilians in Hawaii (namely Maui and Oahu) since there are large ex-pat Brasilians there. However, stranger things have happened such as PTY-LAX on BR, and LAX-MEX on MH.

Easy to see PPT-LAX LAX-GIG but GIG to PPT is not a market for sure.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9014 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
but GIG to PPT is not a market for sure

Only because no-one's ever done it before. There are a lot of very wealthy Brasillians in Sao Paulo who'd love the chance to holiday in French Polynesia, why not give them the opportunity?

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 7):
Would love to, just can't at the moment sorry!!

Great, so there is a story pending. Looking forward to it.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offline767ER From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8904 times:

I am bit confused..........is the rumour that NZ will only fly AKL RAR and will code share with TN PPT LAX. So then who will fly RAR LAX or will NZ add on RAR PPT??


Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8871 times:
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Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
There are currently 3 x 763 flights weekly going AKL-HNL. Apparently these have been underperforming for sometime.

When I flew NZ11 from HNL-AKL on August 13th, the flight was roughly 90% full, that flight wasnt underperforming that day.


User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8838 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
When I flew NZ11 from HNL-AKL on August 13th, the flight was roughly 90% full, that flight wasnt underperforming that day.

But the question that has to be asked is how many of these passengers were high paying one and also what is the income vs the outgoings like.  Smile



-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8803 times:
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Quoting NZ560 (Reply 12):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
When I flew NZ11 from HNL-AKL on August 13th, the flight was roughly 90% full, that flight wasnt underperforming that day.

But the question that has to be asked is how many of these passengers were high paying one and also what is the income vs the outgoings like.

Yes I know that, but I doubt an A320 operating to/from HNL via the Pacific Islands would be enough capicity. More like 5+ weekly services would cover the 3x B763 services. I think SJ operating the service would be better


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8694 times:

Firstly, there is plenty GRU/GIG-PPT traffic, but it currently has to route via Santiago and Easter Island on LAN Chile. Brazil is a major target market for Bora Bora luxury traffic.

The real reason, of course, for GRU/GIG-PPT flights would be to allow flights between Brazil and Japan without a transit in the USA, largely for Visa reasons. NZ would fly Brazil-Tahiti, and Air Tahiti Nui would fly Tahiti-Japan, but Varig would put their code on the whole thing.

Having said that, the three-way Air NZ / Air Tahiti Nui / Varig codeshare is currently off the table, as Varig is not really able to commit to anything.

Secondly, yes, Air NZ is reviewing the AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX flights. As we all know, AKL-RAR-PPT is mainly Economy traffic, while PPT-LAX has untold Business Premier and Premium Economy potential, basically because Bora Bora is such a high-end market.

Last I heard, it looked as if Air NZ was considering coordinating the following:

AKL-RAR-PPT-RAR-HNL with an A320, connecting at PPT with....

AKL-LAX-PPT-LAX-NAN-LAX-PPT-LAX-AKL flown by a 777

This would cut out the mainly Economy Class-laden AKL-NAN and AKL-PPT sectors while allowing affluent Americans and Europeans to fly to NAN and PPT in Business Premier and Premium Economy, with much higher yields than are possible with the 767s.

There would be connecting AKL-NAN and AKL-RAR-PPT A320 flights with the same flight number to maintain the illusion of a single flight number AKL-NAN-LAX and AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.

This would also enable Americans to still get to RAR on Air NZ with a one hour transit at PPT, with the difference being that instead of being a through flight on a 767 it would be a 777 from LAX to PPT, connecting to an A320 for the 90 minute flight on to RAR.


User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8677 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 14):
Brazil is a major target market for Bora Bora luxury traffic.

Why would anyone in Brasil visit Tahiti when the have paradise literally within their own borders? If there was such demand why hasnt RG, JJ, or TN tried the route?


Quoting Koruman (Reply 14):
AKL-RAR-PPT is mainly Economy traffic

So then the bet fit for such a route would be the A320. Would it not?


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 8584 times:

1. Because Bora Bora is the world's most beautiful island and has plenty of ultra-luxury resorts. But there aren't enough rich Americans and Japanese to fill the resorts, so the Tahitians are looking to get more Australian, European and Brazilian tourists. (And it's working - I bumped into Francesco Totti on Taha'a a couple of months ago, and he was one of many, many Italians).

2. The flights don't already exist because Varig is bankrupt and Air Tahiti Nui has only 5 fully-utilised planes. But LAN Chile has no trouble getting 80%+ loads on Santiago-Papeete, and most of the Business Class passengers are Brazilians. So it's far to suggest that Brazil-PPT might work.

3. A320s on AKL-RAR-PPT? That's what I suggested isn't it?


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
Francesco Totti

Isn't that the spitting football player?

I thought it is high end  Wink


User currently offlineFiripu From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 8435 times:

I flew NZ23 from LAX to PPT earlier this month and the flight was pretty much full in Business (although there are not a lot of business class seats in the first place) and Economy was about 60% full.

A few days later when I rejoined NZ23 for PPT-RAR-AKL, there was a lot of connecting traffic flying LAX-PPT-RAR, getting off at RAR, and then a large tour group filling up most of economy joining the flight for the final RAR-AKL sector

The plane was quite old compared to other NZ 767s I've been on and the business class seats didn't look very comfortable at all. Maybe they use the oldest 767s on this route?


User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8357 times:

I got my source from the Cooks. So I take it there is a 'move' coming up! NZ was always my first choice due to the 767's. I've taken the PAcific Blue 73 and it was uncomfortable. However, NZ have been appealing due to being able to burn miles, and, as with getting 'used' (ahem) to FR, i suppose pax will get used to the smaller aircraft.

Do NZ still operate the RAR-NAN sector? Will it last? What will the frequency be like on this and the proposed PPT-RAR-AKL 'connector' route?


User currently offline767ER From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8347 times:

Yes the RAR NAN sector runs once a week with a 737.


Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8111 times:

Bur RAR-NAN is all Economy class.....

User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8068 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
But there aren't enough rich Americans and Japanese to fill the resorts, so the Tahitians are looking to get more Australian, European and Brazilian tourists. (And it's working - I bumped into Francesco Totti on Taha'a a couple of months ago, and he was one of many, many Italians).

Tahiti is a destination yes. However, one must not discount the flocks of European tourists who arrive in droves for their holidays to Seychelles, Mauritius, and Maldives. In addition the treck from Milan to Paris to Los Angeles to Papeete. Or the treck from Milan to New York to Papeete would seem a bit out of the way when there a vast numbers of flights weekly from Milan to the Maldives, Mauritius, and Seychelles.

Le Taha'a is nice, however the pesty bugs were enough to drive more than one guest mad. Le Taha'a is nice, yet holds nothing when compared side by side with St. Regis Bora Bora, or Le Meridien Bora Bora.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
The flights don't already exist because Varig is bankrupt and Air Tahiti Nui has only 5 fully-utilised planes.

TN cant even fill JFK-PPT, where there is what they thought was a strong demand. How are they going to fill and A343 to GRU, if JFK cant even pull a profit?

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
But LAN Chile has no trouble getting 80%+ loads on Santiago-Papeete, and most of the Business Class passengers are Brazilians

80% loads on a flight that stops at two destinations is nothing to gleam about. However, one could argue that the Business Class cabin on LA is not as large as that on AF, and if one is trying to compare using that model, they are missing a point. That point being that SCL-PPT is not daily. Relys heavily on travel/tour operator contracts and does not sustain the 80% LF year round.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
So it's far to suggest that Brazil-PPT might work.

Yes, very far...


User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8067 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
But there aren't enough rich Americans and Japanese to fill the resorts, so the Tahitians are looking to get more Australian, European and Brazilian tourists. (And it's working - I bumped into Francesco Totti on Taha'a a couple of months ago, and he was one of many, many Italians).

Tahiti is a destination yes. However, one must not discount the flocks of European tourists who arrive in droves for their holidays to Seychelles, Mauritius, and Maldives. In addition the treck from Milan to Paris to Los Angeles to Papeete. Or the treck from Milan to New York to Papeete would seem a bit out of the way when there a vast numbers of flights weekly from Milan to the Maldives, Mauritius, and Seychelles.

Le Taha'a is nice, however the pesty bugs were enough to drive more than one guest mad. Le Taha'a is nice, yet holds nothing when compared side by side with St. Regis Bora Bora, or Le Meridien Bora Bora.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
The flights don't already exist because Varig is bankrupt and Air Tahiti Nui has only 5 fully-utilised planes.

TN cant even fill JFK-PPT, where there is what they thought was a strong demand. How are they going to fill and A343 to GRU, if JFK cant even pull a profit?

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
But LAN Chile has no trouble getting 80%+ loads on Santiago-Papeete, and most of the Business Class passengers are Brazilians

80% loads on a flight that stops at two destinations is nothing to gleam about. However, one could argue that the Business Class cabin on LA is not as large as that on AF, and if one is trying to compare using that model, they are proving a point. That point being that SCL-PPT is not daily. Relys heavily on travel/tour operator contracts and does not sustain the 80% LF year round.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
So it's far to suggest that Brazil-PPT might work.

Yes, very far...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8022 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 9):
Only because no-one's ever done it before. There are a lot of very wealthy Brasillians in Sao Paulo who'd love the chance to holiday in French Polynesia, why not give them the opportunity?

I agree that Brazil keep a strong base of very wealthy people, but French Polynesia is not the only one destination. The flight could not rely only on this, it needs to also provide possible connection to other places. We have the Caribbean closer and TAM only flies charters eventually with A319/A320 with stops at MAO. The world is full of beautiful places including ours Fernando de Noronha Islands.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 14):
Firstly, there is plenty GRU/GIG-PPT traffic, but it currently has to route via Santiago and Easter Island on LAN Chile. Brazil is a major target market for Bora Bora luxury traffic.

The real reason, of course, for GRU/GIG-PPT flights would be to allow flights between Brazil and Japan without a transit in the USA, largely for Visa reasons. NZ would fly Brazil-Tahiti, and Air Tahiti Nui would fly Tahiti-Japan, but Varig would put their code on the whole thing.

Some travel agents sell PPT here, it's a US$ 4,500 to US$ 7,000 "toy" and it's personal. Bora Bora is very exciting, but Brazil probably is not the only one on LAN flights, you can see people from Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Peru and other countries. Brazil is in front of the Atlantic, and will be not an option for people from Peru and Argentina to PPT, should the flight be profitable without the other connections ? The fact that they establish a non-stop will allow to increase the number of Brazilians visiting PPT so much ?
Agree that it could work as GIG-PPT-NRT for example.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
Why would anyone in Brasil visit Tahiti when the have paradise literally within their own borders? If there was such demand why hasnt RG, JJ, or TN tried the route?

Because the demand is really eventual. I told about Caribbean, even closer and without a direct link to Rio or Sao Paulo. And there are places like Bahamas, British Virgin Islands and Cayman Islands that become major financial centers for Brazilian Corporations. Petrobras, Vale do Rio Doce (looking for Canadian Inco nowadays with a huge credit line of US$ 18 billion), Votorantim, Bradesco, Itau, Banco do Brasil, Unibanco, Ambev, Suzano, Souza Cruz (British American Tobaco), CSN, Usiminas... all major brazilian corporates has business in the Caribe and all the traffic is thru MIA. We all know there are marvellous places at Caribe.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
2. The flights don't already exist because Varig is bankrupt and Air Tahiti Nui has only 5 fully-utilised planes. But LAN Chile has no trouble getting 80%+ loads on Santiago-Papeete, and most of the Business Class passengers are Brazilians. So it's far to suggest that Brazil-PPT might work.

Chile is the closer country, Brazil is on the other side of South America and will not rely with connections like SCL could.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 ZK-NBT : Thats the lines I was thinking along aswell! Hopefully the 777's will soon be on PPT-LAX.
26 Koruman : Sounds like I was barking up the wrong tree..... I spoke yesterday with a friend who works in the French Polynesian territorial government, who told m
27 NZFan : I'm sorry if i'm going to disagree with you on that one. Surely BOR is a nice place and beautiful (I was born and brought up in Tahiti) but you can't
28 Aerokiwi : "Universally accepted" by who, exactly? Have you ever been to the Maldives? Or Zanzibar? Or any number of Caribbean and south-east asian islands? Fro
29 Koruman : Er, actually, yes I have. The Maldives and most of the West Indian islands are flat coral islands. The Maldives have nice turquoise water, but most of
30 777ER : This further proves that TN is serioulsy scared of NZ and would loose big customers and $$$ if the B777 or even B744 operates the route. Wonder how t
31 ZKNBX : An interesting analysis Koruman. Never considered it through that lens but it all makes sense the way you put it. Further, I also doubt NZ would consi
32 Post contains links and images QFSYD744 : Unfortunately the some of the information you have provided can be proven inaccurate. Source: http://www.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C
33 JoFMO : rotfl Most of them come not even near to Tahiti. You are not really comparing Tahiti with sextourisme destinations like Pattayia or the backpacker pa
34 QFSYD744 : Sex Tourism? Have you ever been to Bali or Pattaya? There is not one shred of evidence that Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, Bvlgari, Oberoi, and others h
35 JoFMO : My adjective was only referring to Pattaya, not to Bali. And to be honest, in Germnay Pattaya is the synonyme for sex tourisme. There is even a famou
36 Post contains images QFSYD744 : BAHAMAS???
37 Koruman : I think the poster is betraying the same lack of understanding about French Polynesia which currently impairs Rob Fyfe's judgement. Queensland has tw
38 Koruman : On that last point.... Air NZ is currently planning to keep the 4 of its 767-300ER aircraft which it owns, having given back the leased ones. There is
39 QFSYD744 : Palazzo Versace? All of the above mentioned hotels can be had for less than $1000.00 per night. And are rated as per as 5 star hotels. 4 Star Hotels
40 Koruman : The lack of demand which led Qantas to pull out was primarily from Sydney to Nadi and Papeete and anyway pre-dated the opening of most of the super-de
41 Kiwiandrew : and what routes would they fly on the rest of the time with that configuration ? 3 x PPT-LAX return flights per week is very low utilisation even if
42 Koruman : No Kiwiandrew, I'm saying operate PPT-LAX as a DAILY service, but with only 99 seats, 64 of which would be high-yield Business Premier and Premium Eco
43 Kiwiandrew : aaah , I misunderstood you , sorry . does the current bilateral not specify frequency as well as capacity though ? Could NZ actually opt for daily wi
44 Laxintl : For having been involved in Tahiti air travel since the mid 1990s, I can certainly say the market is not a particular premium one. While the islands
45 Koruman : Let's say hypothetically that on LAX-PPT return the airline currently grosses 20 x $4000 for Business pax = $80K (allowing for some redemption seats)
46 Koruman : Laxintl, what you haven't mentioned is that AOM and Corsair are (were) budget carriers, carrying passengers for Nouvelles Frontieres, a bargain-baseme
47 Laxintl : Right.. There is lots of typical price sensitive tourism to French Polynesia. Its one row, 6 seats. Managing to fill 6 seats is hardly proof of a bur
48 ZKNBX : Does NZ take any freight btwn on the LAX-PPT-RAR-AKL route?
49 777ER : NZ was always going to keep some B763s left over intill the B789s arrive. Two B763s are staying
50 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Well.. La Di Da! Luxury... Do remember your own words "cheaper" What? Palazzo Versace is part of Leading Hotels of the World. Eos struggles to fill b
51 Koruman : There is no similarity between Hawaii (a destination where development has been of the mass market type, with high rise accommodation and most visito
52 QFSYD744 : Hawaii Luxury Hotels/Resorts: Princeville Hotel Halekulani W Diamond Head Moana Surfrider Hotel Royal Hawaiian Hotel Hawaii Prince Hotel Grand Wailea
53 Koruman : Almost all of those you list are lower category hotels comparable to the Sheraton Moorea Lagoon, not the St Regis Bora Bora. A few are 5 star, only t
54 Post contains links and images QFSYD744 : Koruman, it is not worth posting another list to refute your obsessive adoration for Tahiti. In addition you may be wise to do more research when it
55 TG992 : I've read this before!! Yes and No, i'll post something on Sat if nothing more is made clear by then. It was only a few years ago it went from 2 - 3
56 Koruman : Three things QFSYD744. Firstly, I've never seen Air Tahiti Nui allow paid upgrades at check-in to First Class. You're confusing it with Business Class
57 Aerokiwi : Which just goes to show how subjective your whole analysis is. Zanzibar attracts an awful lot of welathy northern Italians. Judging a place based on
58 Koruman : Sorry Aerokiwi, I wasn't intending to offend anyone! Getting back to the original subject matter of this thread, I simply think that NZ 22/28 is a bad
59 Antskip : It works both ways- those who love their favourite resorts in the Pacific really have no need to go to those in Mauritius, Seychelles, Zanzibar or on
60 Laxintl : Koruman, how large to you think the "premium" market is to Tahiti? What makes you think ANZ even manages to fill their current offerings? I can tell y
61 Laxintl : My mistake, in 2005 there were only 319,522 international arrival passengers at PPT plus 38,087 in transit passengers whom flew on scheduled or charte
62 Planetime : Is there a reason why overall that Air New Zealand seems to be cutting back at LAX overall with their operations? Will we see more service to SFO in t
63 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Koruman, I respect you greatly for showing time after time that you stand behind your statement and points. In saying so this sparring match could go
64 Aerokiwi : There's a lot of talk of the unpleasantness of LAX as a transit stop and I believe the catering contractor there has let the airline down quite a bit
65 Airnewzealand : Koruman... You stated that massive construction has gone on within the country. Exactly, it has SPOILED the island something cronic!!! Being born and
66 777ER : Thanks to poisin that was put in the land to kill the ground when Honolulu City was farm land, so the government could sell it to build buildings B77
67 Koruman : QFSYD744, you're probably surprised to hear that I too love Hawaii and wish Air NZ had kept some direct presence on LAX-HNL, even if only an A320 or t
68 Tundra767 : Sorry off topic but fell out of my chair laughing on the last part! TN putting GP in J?! You must be joking!!!! I have flown many time GP on TN and b
69 Laxintl : Sorry to hear that Tundra. I've also flown TN multiple times and only been in Y class once and only for a few hours (I was moved up inflight). The pre
70 Tundra767 : Thats why I fly AF to PPT. Although I have been planning a trip down to the islands very soon and have pondered TN in P or J on revenu ticket. Will wa
71 TG992 : I also would like to see this, maybe even better by doing HKG NAN or RAR AKL flight. But yes AKL SYD HKG or AKL BNE HKG would be great, only thing is
72 MotorHussy : And not to forget the Hong Kong behemoth CX! Regards MH
73 Koruman : I think that Air New Zealand's "blue chip" overseas markets are the USA, UK and Europe. And they are lucky to have rights to operate not just out of N
74 MotorHussy : All good points you've made for examination, but I'm sure that in the NZ management camp there is an underlying call for calm and caution on this fro
75 Koruman : Here in Australia I don't think that many passengers will say "hold on, Air NZ owned Ansett when it went bust, therefore I'll fly Emirates instead". T
76 MotorHussy : On this front, I totally agree. It's often annoyed me that I'd be penalised financially for taking a stop on one leg to or from the U.S. (and have be
77 Koruman : Air NZ could really use stopovers like RAR and NAN and PPT to market themselves in Australia for corporate travel, even if they open MEL-HKG and SYD-H
78 ZK-NBT : I've not read the whole thread here so I may have missed some things. NZ could extend the 3 weekly AKL-HNL flight on to LAX for connections to from HN
79 MRURUN : Now you're talking. Try doing a weekend in PPT from LHR vs MRU!! And want a nice hotel BUT more bang for my buck once I step outside the hotel gates.
80 V2fix : Air NZ stopped the LAX-HNL sector back when it joined the Star Alliance, which I expect was an arrangement to appease UA. I flew this sector back in
81 Koruman : Well, it looks like it's all over. Air New Zealand staff in Papeete have learned over the last few days from their colleagues in Rarotonga that the ai
82 767ER : That is a real pity and very disappoiting news. We can now say goodbye to the famous 'Coral Route' that commenced in the 1950s with the Flying Boats.
83 NZ1 : It's sad isn't it Koruman. I can't believe it either. I still can't understand why we haven't reconfigured say 2 763's to a 100J 40Y config to service
84 Zkpilot : Whilst I agree to a large extent, NZ simply doesn't have feeds in Australia... now if they could make an arrangement with Virgin Blue then that would
85 Koruman : Ouch NZ1. I hope that your reply indicates that I'm wrong with what I've posted today. There are two ways of interpreting the staff at PPT being upset
86 Post contains links Axio : "Air NZ targets La La Land": http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/842893 The headline, an attempted pun on the abbreviation for Los Angeles, says alot a
87 Mcg : No Service RAR to the United States???? That will have a major impact on tourisim in the Cook Islands. Somehow I think the NZ government might try to
88 MotorHussy : So no AKL-RAR-LAX 763 and AKL-RAR-HNL A320 in its place? Weird! As a New Zealand associate that is dependent on tourism for the majority of its liveli
89 TG992 : We've heard rumours that our layovers in PPT may be replaced with layovers in RAR. I wonder if AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX will be replaced with AKL-RAR-LAX, TN w
90 ZKNBX : This is starting to sound very sad indeed. Love to see a risk analysis in all of this... I can't believe that NZ are abandoning PPT in all forms, aft
91 ZKNBX : You know... there is such a thing as brand loyalty. After all, what is the point of the Star Alliance et al? I just can't believe how HARD NZ are tryi
92 Koruman : ZKNBX, you know, I actually live in Australia. I remain an Air NZ frequent flyer because I basically go to three destinations: 1) The USA, 2) London,
93 ZKNBX : Koruman. This is going to be more than sad.. if it really goes ahead. Frankly, it's madness... for so many reasons already discussed. And - of course
94 Axio : Now all we need is a real domestic partner for OneWorld in NZ. I for one would love to see nice connections to Palmerston North on Qantas. Pipe dream
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