FLALEFTY From United States, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6031 times:
With many FA's making sub-$20K salaries, perhaps we travellers might reward those FA's that provide good service, in spite of their financial struggles.
Just a thought, but maybe one that's time has come!
Luv2fly From United States, joined May 2003, 11216 posts, RR: 56 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6013 times:
Quoting FLALEFTY (Thread starter): With many FA's making sub-$20K salaries, perhaps we travellers might reward those FA's that provide good service, in spite of their financial struggles.
Just a thought, but maybe one that's time has come!
Sure we can tip the pilot for landing, the gate agent for boarding quickly, the baggage handler for it arriving in one piece, the honey pot cleaner for doing the dreaded job, where does it end?
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 59 Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5985 times:
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1): Sure we can tip the pilot for landing, the gate agent for boarding quickly, the baggage handler for it arriving in one piece, the honey pot cleaner for doing the dreaded job, where does it end?
Exactly. I never expect a tip, as I am just doing my job (eventhough starting salaries are crap).
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5951 times:
Quoting FLALEFTY (Thread starter): With many FA's making sub-$20K salaries, perhaps we travellers might reward those FA's that provide good service, in spite of their financial struggles.
Just a thought, but maybe one that's time has come!
I started a thread about this a few months ago... I hate the idea of tipping in general for standard service. Of course, if someone goes above and beyond in any industry, tipping can be appropriate. But, for standard service, their pay should compensate them appropriately.
Although, with how widespread tipping is in the US, why not pilots and flight attendants? Pilots especially.... you put your life in the hands of highly trained individuals that are sleep deprived, make little pay, etc and never even think twice about the capabilities of the individuals up front. If tipping became "standard" in the airline industry, I'd have no problem tipping my pilots a few bucks every flight... it'd still probably be less than what passengers tip the hotel van drivers to get them to the airport, or spend on a cup of coffee once there.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18393 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5951 times:
Quoting FLALEFTY (Thread starter): With many FA's making sub-$20K salaries, perhaps we travellers might reward those FA's that provide good service, in spite of their financial struggles.
Please define many, and in what country...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5933 times:
Tipping in some respects is only a few steps away from bribery, isn't it?
Suppose you go into a fancy restaurant and the maitre d' introduces you to a not-so-nice table near the kitchen doors. You slip him a Ben Franklin, and suddenly there's a much nicer booth near the front that's just opened up.
What's the difference? (This does not refer to official functions, of course; bribery and tipping are definitely illegal in that respect.)
One might be that a tip is for excellent service already received, versus bribery which might be for services not yet received, but on the other hand, wouldn't you expect that the person who's been tipped will remember you and serve you better the next time you patronize his establishment, even before you tip? If so, how's that all that different from bribery?
Futurecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5912 times:
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5): Pilots especially.... you put your life in the hands of highly trained individuals
Exactly, Flight attendants are trained for their main purpose too....emergencies. And both are compensated for their service with what the market will pay....which is not poverty after a short few years working.
Really, the only people I tip are waiters/waitresses....and thats only if the service is good. Because they do not get compensated for their work through their paycheck.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18393 posts, RR: 59 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5912 times:
Bnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5878 times:
If F/A's depended on tips, and based on my experience - B6's group would go awfully hungry because I've yet to see them perform any "service" worthy of a tip. Besides, doesn't tipping just add to the public's perception that flight attendants are just "waiters/waitresses" in the sky, which we know is a falsehood?
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18393 posts, RR: 59 Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5865 times:
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 9): Try just about every regional airline FA in the US. At my airline, a first year FA would take a really good pay raise to get to $20k/yr.
First year isn't about getting rich in any job that I know of. First year isn't about supporting a family. It's about learning your job and proving your worth.
In addition, travel benefits, employer contribution to payroll and unemployment taxes, and other factors get included.
There are far tougher jobs with far more responsibility, far longer hours, requiring far greater education, that don't pay any better first year, median or ever. I'm sorry you don't get paid a lot. Begging for tips won't endear you to any pax, however.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Nope, at my airline... a large regional here in the US... our flight attendants start out making around $14k/yr and our average is somewhere in the low $20k range. The highest 10% probably make no more than $28k/yr and have been around for the majority of the time the airline has existed.
Some of you may say that I'm only talking about regional airlines and that isn't the big picture.... but, it is. Regional airlines are a very large porition of the US airline system, and its where all the jobs are. If you're going to be able to get a job as an FA, its almost guarenteed to be at a regional. FAs at majors make more... but not that much more.
The data you have is definitely incorrect, job websites aren't able to correctly compute pay in aviation fields because people don't understand how one hour flight time and pay doesn't mean one hour at work or one hour away from home. For example, from the same site:
Flight Instructor 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
the United States $74,929 $81,501 $91,758
There is absolutely no way this is correct, as a flight instructor I was making $15-20k/yr and this was pretty average. It is RARE to find a job as one that pays greater than $30k/yr. Plus, 99% of schools offer no benefits, bonuses, or other income.
RandyWaldron From United States, joined Mar 2006, 323 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5837 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11): re you talking starting F/A's? is there some penalty box or probationary period I'm missing, and if so, why would you tip an F/A in that position?
Honestly, I hear sob stories about this or that profession not making a lot of money, but the data don't support the hyperbole...
Flight Attendants in this nation, on average, make around $30,000 per year. In fact, most Flight Attendants begin their careers making approximately $17 per flight hour. Flight Attendants are not paid for boarding, deplaning, pre-flight crew briefings, post-landing duties and the time spent between flights. Furthermore, as this position is limited to (at most carriers) a montly maxiumum of 100 Flight Hours, you do the math. $17.00 x 100:00 = $1700.00/month. Yes there are some incentive pay rates and certain per diem supplements, but, you'll never, ever see an average Flight Attendant bringing home more than $30-40k a year.
I challenge you to seek out salary information contained within the Flight Attendants contracts at AMR, NWA, UAL, etc, etc....and to do the math. Flight Attendants are not bringing home $73,000 a year. The website you have utilized to obtain this salary information is totally inaccurate.
Why waste time seeking salary information from a third-party website? You should have been more careful in your research before responding to and posting blatantly false salary information.
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5819 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13): There are far tougher jobs with far more responsibility, far longer hours, requiring far greater education, that don't pay any better first year, median or ever. I'm sorry you don't get paid a lot. Begging for tips won't endear you to any pax, however.
This, I agree with you on. I'm not even a flight attendant.
But, one of my pet peeves is the public's perception that people in aviation have easy jobs and make lots and lots of money. I don't think FAs should be tipped, but its not because I think they make enough money otherwise.
RandyWaldron From United States, joined Mar 2006, 323 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5812 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13): Begging for tips won't endear you to any pax, however.
You're right! During my years as a Flight Attendant I was offered tips by many passengers, and politely refused their kind gratuities.
However, try telling that to the "kids" I saw a few weeks ago on a flight from to Boston on an unnamed carrier. They had a "TIP JAR" on the beverage cart......So much for bankruptcies, mergers, and pay cuts.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 59 Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5800 times:
Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 15): Flight Attendants are not bringing home $73,000 a year. The website you have utilized to obtain this salary information is totally inaccurate
I hate to burst your bubble, but some make upwards of 120K a year (mind you, a very small few do and they are the ones who bust their hump doing it).
At CO, we have no cap as to how many hours we can work. You can work as much or as little as you want. I typically work 110-130 hours a month, which is a lot of flying. Our minimum days off is 8.
You are correct in other aspects
Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 15): In fact, most Flight Attendants begin their careers making approximately $17 per flight hour. Flight Attendants are not paid for boarding, deplaning, pre-flight crew briefings, post-landing duties and the time spent between flights
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3): Exactly. I never expect a tip, as I am just doing my job
RandyWaldron From United States, joined Mar 2006, 323 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5750 times:
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 19): I hate to burst your bubble, but some make upwards of 120K a year (mind you, a very small few do and they are the ones who bust their hump doing it).
At CO, we have no cap as to how many hours we can work. You can work as much or as little as you want. I typically work 110-130 hours a month, which is a lot of flying. Our minimum days off is 8.
You are correct in other aspects
You're certainly not bursting my bubble. I stood behind that beverage cart for many, many, many years and I know exactly how much I made and what I did not get paid for.
However - your airline isn't AVERAGE now, is it? You guys are (and I'm sure I'll get banned for life for saying this) the pinnacle of Flight Attendant and Pilot flying at this point in time. Twenty years ago, you weren't, especially after the Eastern, Texas Air, People Express, New York Air, et al, days.
Continental is a superior carrier with an industry-leading payscale for Flight Attendants. However, it's all relative and CO certainly isn't your average, run-of-the-mill major airline, like all of the rest.
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 19): some make upwards of 120K a year (mind you, a very small few do
Re-read those operative words: some, very, small and few. I've never met a Flight Attendant at ANY carrier that has made $120,000. I wouldn't want to meet them, either. They must be a walking zombie.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 59 Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5592 times:
Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 21): I've never met a Flight Attendant at ANY carrier that has made $120,000. I wouldn't want to meet them, either. They must be a walking zombie.
They are actually great to fly with. Very professional and hard working.
Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 21): Continental is a superior carrier with an industry-leading payscale for Flight Attendants.
AirWillie6475 From United States, joined Jan 2005, 2447 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5582 times:
What have the flight attendants ever done for 99% of us. Especially now at days where they just hand you the mix nuts and never show their faces until landing. I still don't understand why people make being an FA a career especially with the low wages. Other parts of the world it's just a part time thing. To me being a FA is in the same category as being a waiter.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 59 Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5555 times:
Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 23): What have the flight attendants ever done for 99% of us. Especially now at days where they just hand you the mix nuts and never show their faces until landing.
You fly the wrong airline, then. I work at an airline where I am always in the aisle, always available for drinks, questions, small talk, etc..
Very happy to be where I am, who I work for (20 years here and have seen A LOT of changes) and enjoy the job. Zero complaints.
What have we done for 100% of you? Very easy to answer. Our job.
And to tie in with the thread topic, our job without needing or expecting to be tipped (still feel we do not need to be).
Pope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5549 times:
should we tip medical residents earning what amounts to less than $3/hr in many cases and who actually make life and death decisions on a daily basis?
26 AerospaceFan: My experience with Flight Attendants has been quite positive, overall. In my view, I can't say they've ever done anything but their best, so I complim
27 Ikramerica: No it isn't. It's low cost regional carriers, usually employing greener F/As, etc. If you think everyone is making $24k after many years of work, I h
28 ANCFlyer: Here's some "Tips" for the passengers to give to the Hard Working Flight Attendants: Please Thank you Yes Ma'am Yes Sir No Ma'am No Sir You're Welcome
29 777ER: I was surprised at the amount of tipping that happened in the USA. I always forgot that you need to tip. I don't know why you should tip anyone for do
30 RandyWaldron: No, it is not accurate. Your posting is inflammatory, suggesting that the average Flight Attendant makes 73,000 per year is crazy.
31 TPAnx: Agree with ANCFlyer...common courtesy...which isn't so common these days..goes a LONG way. Cookies, candy, cards..yes...cash..no. Perhaps the best tip
32 AirTranTUS: Wouldn't tips give the allusion of "the glorified waiter/waitress" image that FA's dislike so much? Depending on your point of view, it could make the
33 Bh4007: If you want to 'tip' your flight attendent - just buy something from the trolley. + you get a drink/snack in the process!
34 NKMCO: Well that is not actually true - servers get paid haf the minimum wage (about $3 per hour).
35 Skyexramper: I know my company says we can't except tips however I do every now and then usually if not alot of people are around. I see nothing wrong with excepti
36 Aeroplan73: I think the best way to 'tip' a flight attendent, is to fly on airlines that don't screw them.
37 N1120A: Yeah, that is untrue and you know it. Anyone else notice how USAirways F/As have taken to shilling the credit cards? Apparently they get $50 per sign
38 Mjlhou: i see nothing wrong with it...if I really did something extraordinary...other than always being available to my pax and always providing what they ask
39 MiCorazonAzul: You tip waiters/waitresses at restaurants so why not F/A's? I'm not saying that's all F/A's are but they perform a similar duty to an extent. Let's fa
40 Kaukau: Because FA's do not have mandatory IRS withholding of taxes from income based on salary + tips, like a waitress, just salary. A letter of commendatio
41 Spacecadet: So here's a better idea - how about we *stop* tipping waiters and waitresses? Tipping is getting out of hand. There are tip jars at Starbucks now, an
42 Futurecaptain: Waitresses / Waiters make $2-$3 per hour generally. Tips are how they survive. And their job doesn't have the perks being an FA does.
43 AerospaceFan: I don't like tipping at Starbucks, even though I do. I don't know why, though (in either case). And I note that my comments about bribery haven't bee
44 Grimey: I haven't read much of this topic, I will come back to it tomorrow but watch this video from Reservoir Dogs all about tippping. Warning: this video ma
45 Bphendri: I think it's time to start demanding that airlines provide the quality of service that it's paying customers deserve, including but not limmited to de
46 YULWinterSkies: I would rather say cop nowadays... Unionized or not, to be a cop and have to deal with emergencies when they occur (and to be constantly ready for su
47 United767: You cant expect First class service for a Coach fare. In today's aviation world in the U.S. all a fare guarantees you is a seat. The standard service
48 COIAH756CA: If we were to tip FAs, I would be poor. Flying as a passenger 4 times a week adds up.
49 TG992: For those of you who support tipping crew - please don't tip me or any of my colleagues when you fly a non-US airline. In fact, I'd be offended if any
50 Dazed767: Did anyone here read the post about the 80 something year old NW F/A? He has been with them for over 50 years and according to the article with all t
52 LatinAviation: Interestingly, the authors of the book "Freakonomics" discuss this very topic in their blog this week, have a look: http://www.freakonomics.com/blog/
53 Aa757first: In PA, minimum wage for waiters and waitresses is $2.55 an hour. I think they deserve their 19%. AAndrew
54 Kaukau: On my recent flights, I took notice of the names of the Airline employees who impressed me with their professionalism. This included F/A's, G/A's, and
55 FLY2LIM: I am not necessarily for tipping on aircraft. However, I notice that some people are simply opposed at any cost and, yet, no one seems to come up with
56 Carduelis: Tipping on aircaraft? In today's excuse for so-called service - never! What for? I have to ask for everything! They haven't a clue! Cardeulis ex 707 B
57 IAirAllie: No tips thank you! While we appreciate the thought most airlines do not permit us to accept them and somehow imho they can feel degrading. What most a
59 L1011Lover: Oh come on!!! What crap! Kid, please grow up before you start commenting on this forum! Which other parts of the world are you referring to??? Europe
60 L1011Lover: Usually the in-flight service department will forward any crew compliment to the respective crew member... and believe me, letters of compliments are
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(This does not refer to official functions, of course; bribery and tipping are definitely illegal in that respect.)
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