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Qatar To Buy 20 *more* 777s?  
User currently offlineTak From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 161 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9489 times:

Hi everyone,

my first time posting here on A.net, long time lurker.  Smile

Saw this article when I did a search for boeing on google news today:

http://www.itp.net/business/news/details.php?id=22069&category=

Summary: Qatar Airways is buying 20 777s (big surprise here for everyone eh?). they plan on buying 20 more (no indication when they might want to firm up this new "commitment"). A brief reference to the two A380s Qatar has ordered with neutral tone.

Curious as to how good this source is and whether anyone else has heard about these followup 777s as well as info/speculation as to what the breakdown might be of 300ERs or 200LRs or freighters? Anyway, hope I don't piss too many people off with my first post.

Ciao, Thomas

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineElvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9463 times:

Hi Tak,

Welcome to a.net!

Neat and interesting article. I am not too familiar with ITP. Any one else have any news on this?

Peace

Elvis777



Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9418 times:

While i don't follow QR too closely as they like to play games,

last summer they did say: At least 20 777s and up to 60 A350s.

Too many people took this to mean: 60 350s and 20 777s and ignored the qualifiers.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9385 times:

Quoting Tak (Thread starter):
Anyway, hope I don't piss too many people off with my first post.

I'm sure you will. Big grin

Didn't Qatar just take delivery of an A340-600 if I remember correctly?
They really seem to be playing both sides of the fense with their long haul a/c strategy.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9360 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
While i don't follow QR too closely as they like to play games,

last summer they did say: At least 20 777s and up to 60 A350s.

Too many people took this to mean: 60 350s and 20 777s and ignored the qualifiers.

I would recommend that Boeing execs take their blood pressure and heartburn medications prior to engaging in future talks with al Baker.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9288 times:

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
I would recommend that Boeing execs take their blood pressure and heartburn medications prior to engaging in future talks with al Baker.

Me too. I wouldn't withhold slots from other airlines on al Baker's promises, though they did firm up those first 20 777s eventually, so you never know.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11847 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9247 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I thought QR just confirmed their B777 order and are holding off on the A350 intill Airbus re-launch the A350. Would this be a *new* order or maybe an old news article?

Welcome to a.net


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9213 times:

Quoting Tak (Thread starter):

my first time posting here on A.net, long time lurker.  Smile

Hi Tak..welcome to A.net. Smile

While the 20 777's have been firmed up bigthumbsup ...these new comments are interesting if true.. scratchchin .....I would say that there was some kind of translation error somewhere...... spin 

QR having 40 777's in its fleet? I'm not so sure if I buy that right now...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9166 times:

Welcome to A.net, Thomas.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
I thought QR just confirmed their B777 order and are holding off on the A350 intill Airbus re-launch the A350.

Wasn't it actually that QR had the order announced, yet retracted it later in Farnborough this year?

But then again, that's QR. First they want to order a 777 combo, then change to the A350, and so on. Anything regarding QR's fleet plans should at this stage be taken with a very big grain of salt. They're at times more erratic than SU with ordering from Boeing and/or Airbus.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):

Wasn't it actually that QR had the order announced, yet retracted it later in Farnborough this year?

Yes it was..but it has now been firmed an confirmed on Boeings website... Smile

This is part of the article I really liked..

"We will seek an amicable solution with the manufacturer," he (Al Baker) said. Also I do not believe that Airbus can afford to have legal actions taken against them."...

Cheers.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9131 times:

The article lacks credibility. Here's another gem of poor research.

"Qatar Airlines is Airbus� biggest customer in the Middle East. The carrier also has an order for two of the troubled �superjumbo� A380s � the world�s largest commercial plane with a passenger capacity of 555 - which has been experiencing severe technical problems and hence unforseen delivery delays. That order is worth US$1.2 billion, with the planes scheduled for delivery in 2009."

2 A380s worth US$ 1.2 billion!  eyepopping 

But you never know with QR...



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4096 posts, RR: 90
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9071 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
The article lacks credibility. Here's another gem of poor research.

What for, taking a direct quote from Qatar Airways website?

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
2 A380s worth US$ 1.2 billion!

Our fleet expansion is ongoing with a signed deal of $1.2 billion for two Airbus A380 “super jumbos” that will be delivered in 2009, with the option to buy another two.

http://www.qatarairways.com/index.php?id=37.0.0.1.0.0&tab=5

I find the following quote, if reported correctly, to be very interesting.

“We placed a firm order for the first 20, but we are planning to buy 40 all together,” Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker revealed to Arabian Business

But I'll agree, one never knows with Qatar but it appears that they may well, at the least, be intent to commit for another 20 777s, perhaps some 772Fs as announced at Le Bourget 2005.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9027 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):

What for, taking a direct quote from Qatar Airways website?

I had no idea that this came from QRs website. With leaving out the 2 options the writer of the article gives the impression that the 2 A380s are worth US$1.2 billion. I'll keep it at poor resumé skills.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Poor old Manni,

no doubt with the likelihood of QR committing to 40 777s (and they always said it would be at least 20), the likelihood of them ordering 60 A350XYZs is a pipe-dream! Of course, they always said up to 60 XYZs, which could mean none, or it could be 60. 20-30 would seem the likely number to me.
Even an Airbus devotee like Al-Akbar appears to have seen the light!


User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8500 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 13):
Poor old Manni,

Not only Manni, poor old me. I really didn't want to see a single B plane in QR colours. I feel positively ill at the thought of another 20 going to QR.

It would appear they've decided to push ahead with their expansion now rather than wait for XWB's that they haven't even ordered.

Who exactly knows with QR? Still like them though

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 13):
Even an Airbus devotee like Al-Akbar appears to have seen the light!

Dude he's been basking in the light ever since he bought his first plane.... an Airbus. I think he's gone off the boil a bit, but anyheyhoo, they are just lumps of metal at the end of the day


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8353 times:

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 14):
but anyheyhoo, they are just lumps of metal at the end of the day

wow, you finally said something worth mentioning.

Cheers,

Ric



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4096 posts, RR: 90
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8230 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

This is a most interesting development in my opinion and I've no doubt that we'll see much further discussion but I think I'll lay my  twocents  on the table

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
last summer they did say: At least 20 777s and up to 60 A350s.

Too many people took this to mean: 60 350s and 20 777s and ignored the qualifiers.

That sir is the truth and in relation to the A350 if anyone mentioned less than 60 they were shouted down. Looking at Mr Al Bakers last statement in relation to that commitment one has to really ask just what position they are left in.

Al Baker also reaffirmed the airline's unsigned commitment for up to 60 of the A350s that the airline placed an order for at last year's Paris Air Show.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZA...tries/pagTransport/lok034200060920

This was later reported to be "firmed" up to an MoU when Mr Al Baker visited France later in the year. Their problem seems to be that they were planning on using 777s to build their network and once fully delivered the A350-800s and -900s would then be used to expand their frequencies and network further. At least that is my take following developments from Le Bourget.

From the report linked in the initial thread starters post;

“Now we can confirm the order of the [initial 20] Boeing 777s, with the first one being delivered in November 2007 and the completion of the order scheduled for 2010.”

Last 777 deliveries of the "minimum" of 20 coincided with the planned EIS of the original A350;

The deal is for a mix of A350-800s and larger A350-900s. Deliveries of Qatar Airways’ Airbus A350-800s are due to begin in the third quarter of 2010, with those of its A350-900s starting several months later

http://www.eads.com/xml/content/OF00...2qatar%20airways%20A350%20ORDER%22

Even though Boeing was outselling the A350 which forced Airbus to re-assess the design it soon became delayed enough to warrant concern within the management of QR for Mr Al Baker to express his displeasure, despite having signed an MoU with GEnx to power the A350;

"A delay of six months to a year would be acceptable. On the other hand, a delay of two years would be unacceptable for us," he said.

http://qatar-airways-news.newslib.com/story/4806-3230366/

``We're not going to wait forever,'' Qatar Chief Executive Akbar Al Baker said today in an interview at the International Air Transport Association meeting in Paris. ``If things don't happen in the timeframe we want to happen, then of course we'll look somewhere else.''

``They've changed the rules of the game,'' Al Baker said, referring to Airbus. ``They now want to build a bigger airplane, with a larger capacity, a bigger cross section and they've not yet submitted to us or given us the proposal on what this airplane will do or when it will be delivered.''

``We as an airline have a business plan. We need to grow. And when there are delays in deliveries, we have to then rethink our fleet strategy. If they don't have their game in order, then it is their problem.''


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=aVwvjf76.pUc

This also coincided with the news of a revamped A350 which became the A350XBW but most importantly EIS has been pushed back to 2012 from Q3 of 2010 and this has left them with void which needs filling. In addition to this at Le Bourget 2005 they expressed an interest in the 772F yet none were firmed so there is a chance that some of these 777s could be for the 772F and the rest some more 772LR & 773ER until they come to agreement with Airbus on the A350XWB.

After all with a commitment for up to 60 A350XWBs Airbus will be working overtime to meet their requirements so as to include their commitment to validate Industrial launch. The more so given Mr Al Baker confirmed the order for 20 777s on the day they took delivery of an A346!

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 14):
I really didn't want to see a single B plane in QR colours. I feel positively ill at the thought of another 20 going to QR.

With respect, best you get used to it, the more so given what Mr Al Baker states in the linked article in the thread starter.

To launch some Boeing planes is a financial necessity for our carrier, since the American plane has its advantages, and Airbus has others,” he explained. “We were a solely Boeing fleet until 1997, after that we converted to Airbus and now we are keen to operate Boeings again. We have also ordered a large number of Airbus A350s, and we certainly need both models to serve our large expansion plans.”

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
I would recommend that Boeing execs take their blood pressure and heartburn medications prior to engaging in future talks with al Baker.

 checkmark  and I've no doubt their counterparts at Airbus are taking a similar degree of medication too because as many have noted with Mr Al Baker....

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
as they like to play games



Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
But you never know with QR...



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 14):
Who exactly knows with QR?

But the one I like best is;

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
"We will seek an amicable solution with the manufacturer," he (Al Baker) said. Also I do not believe that Airbus can afford to have legal actions taken against them."...

That statement over the following comment;

Al Baker also reaffirmed the airline's unsigned commitment for up to 60 of the A350s that the airline placed an order for at last year's Paris Air Show.

This will be a good one, get a cup of coffee, sit back relax and enjoy the view!

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8132 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 16):
With respect, best you get used to it, the more so given what Mr Al Baker states in the linked article in the thread starter.

Yes I will, the pill seems so hard to swallow to rid me of my ill feeling.

Your post is very well sourced, but for me, a bit of a ramble. I think you could have said it in a sentence. QR is going to use Boeing and Airbus planes in the future.


User currently offlineZamaria From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7611 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
What for, taking a direct quote from Qatar Airways website?

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
2 A380s worth US$ 1.2 billion!

Our fleet expansion is ongoing with a signed deal of $1.2 billion for two Airbus A380 “super jumbos” that will be delivered in 2009, with the option to buy another two.

http://www.qatarairways.com/index.ph...tab=5

It could be that the 1.2 billion referred to on Qatar Airways' website was 1.2 billion Qatari Riyals, which translates into around US$329 million, which could be a ligitimate discounted price for 2 A380s.

-Z


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5078 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

Wow!!!! 40 777 for Qatar!!!


Wonderful!



Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

Quoting Tak (Thread starter):
Anyway, hope I don't piss too many people off with my first post.

Well,
You made Halibut very happy !

Thanks !

Quoting Tak (Thread starter):
Qatar To Buy 20 *more* 777s?

 biggrin 

Halibut


User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1002 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

Quoting Zamaria (Reply 18):
It could be that the 1.2 billion referred to on Qatar Airways' website was 1.2 billion Qatari Riyals, which translates into around US$329 million, which could be a ligitimate discounted price for 2 A380s.

If true, that's letting a good sized cat out of the bag! $165 Million per copy is about a 40% discount? Probably typical for an early launch type customer.

JLP


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