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ATL New Runway Taxi In Time  
User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 787 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

I know I've read about this on here and in local atl papers. But, the taxi in time from the new runway is awful! I'm also aware that the closing of an older runway for resurfacing isn't helping. But I can't help but wonder if a better ground traffic pattern could be created, rather than clearing airplanes one at a time to cross each runway en route to the terminal. Anybody else have any input?


S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited319 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4733 times:
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That's pretty much the only option for now. At times it can take a half hour or more to taxi to the gates when you land on the new runway. There's simply too much traffic in ATL. I'd like to see the airport slot restricted. But that's not likely to happen.

ATL is a royal pain in the neck...especially days like yesterday when the radar failed for a while, leading to more ground stops.



It's Time To Fly
User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4703 times:

I've landed on the new runway 4-5 times and it was never that bad. Certainly longer than landing on 26R and heading into the "T" gates, but it's nothing like the reef runway in HNL. 30 minutes from the 5th runway? I've never had anything approaching that! Hard to believe, unless it's a wx day or something like that.


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4696 times:

Yest I had a 40min taxi to the gates. Weather was a little bit of an issue, but not as bad as it was later in the day. Two weeks ago I flew in around 10am monday morning. Great weather, but 30min taxi in time. I honestly think ATC should clear multiple a/c at once.


S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 4583 times:

Once they get the other runway back and running, there won't be alot of problems.

I came in on 10 last week- nothing more than a 10 minute taxi to the gate, it didn't seem far at all. The pilots made one of the high-speed turnoff that's more direct to the concourse, so that made it easy.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 4525 times:

Yesterday was just awful wasn't it! Our inbound from ATL was supposed to arrive at 14:30, turn around and head back at 15:00... it didn't come in until after 14:00, then we hit ground stop after ground stop with it not leaving until almost 21:00!

Then our RON flight that was supposed to arrive at 20:55 didn't leave the gate in ATL until after 23:30. ATL in their infinate wisdom put in an ETD of 23.15... only problem was that it was already 23:25 when they put it in, so hey, obviously we're not going to make that. We finally gave up and called dispatch only to be told it isn't out of the gate yet and we should expect roughly an hour taxi time before it actually takes off (once it does clear the gate). Long story short, our 20:55 arrival didn't come in until after 01:30 +1.

The best part of it is that we were something like 14 bags short when it finally did come in. Not sure how you're supposed to explain that to a passenger... since the first question they ask is why we couldn't get the bags on the plane since it sat there for 5 hours.

I've seen a lot of talk about radar problems and such. Our captain said something yesterday (since we had enough time to chat) about the placement of the new runway being something like 50ft too close to one of the others. Apparently this has buggered everything up because they can't run 3 parallel ILS approaches? Not sure if thats the case, but he said something about it.



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineKraw From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 4511 times:

yesterday was a bad day. I counted 30 planes waiting on 26R

Taxi time from 10/28 isn't that bad. I've timed an RJ at 7 minutes from turn off to ramp.



Pastey White!!!!!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4489 times:

Yet another reason to continue to choose CLT and MEM to connect to southern destinations.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineIahflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

Just deal with it.......I hate the times from the north runway at IAH to get to the terminal, no matter which way you taxi in, it will take way too much time.

Any time you increase the number of runways at an airport to increase capacity something is gonna suffer as we know all too well. In order to meet the flight standards separation requirements in the USA, there are certain distances you have to keep between centerlines of runways to be able to conduct simultaneous dual/triple approaches....and that only addresses landings! Yes, the advanced navigation abilities in todays fleet one would think you'd be able to reduce some of this crazy criteria, but not yet! So we all have to suffer as a result.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 8):
So we all have to suffer as a result.

I agree we need to share in the suffering. But I'm not willing to accept that ATC has come up with the best possible traffic flow for dealing with this. We need some human factors people to chime in and help get this corrected.



S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlinePeachAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 367 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Sure .. like CLT / MEM never have weather.

Of course 26L is going to exacerbate problems especially in the fall - now that we are between seasons. This work has to be done to the infrastructure - it is inevitable.

I notice coming in Friday that all the concrete has been removed from 26L/8R. Phoneomenal task to have completed inside of two weeks!


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4360 times:

Quoting PeachAir (Reply 10):
Sure .. like CLT / MEM never have weather.

Sure, but unlike ATL, they aren't maxed out capacity wise, and handle weather much, much better. Also, during good weather, taxi/hold times are much smaller than ATL with good weather.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 11):
Sure, but unlike ATL, they aren't maxed out capacity wise, and handle weather much, much better. Also, during good weather, taxi/hold times are much smaller than ATL with good weather.

It should also be noted that your limited as far as to where you can go out of these hubs compared to the cities and frequencies out of ATL



S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 12):
It should also be noted that your limited as far as to where you can go out of these hubs compared to the cities and frequencies out of ATL

Certainly ATL has more destinations, but if i'm going somewhere that can be served via CLT or MEM, why choose ATL? That flight to timbucktu from ATL really does me no good if I'm flying somewhere that all three hubs support.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 11):
Sure, but unlike ATL, they aren't maxed out capacity wise, and handle weather much, much better. Also, during good weather, taxi/hold times are much smaller than ATL with good weather.

It's "maxed out" only for another few weeks until the other runway is resurfaced. Then it reopens, and capacity is significantly increased to the point that it can handle the equally significant growth at ATL. It's simple math.

As for your claims as to who handles weather better, please provide us specific examples to back up your assertions.

Finally, and the DL/Air Tran/ATL people on the boards can back this up better then I can, but I would bet all the money in my wallet against all the money in your wallet that taxi times are on average less then CLT or MEM (which, by the way, combined don't move the number of pax that ATL does according to ACI http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/disp...i_content.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5_9_2__) .


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 14):
As for your claims as to who handles weather better, please provide us specific examples to back up your assertions.

Finally, and the DL/Air Tran/ATL people on the boards can back this up better then I can, but I would bet all the money in my wallet against all the money in your wallet that taxi times are on average less then CLT or MEM (which, by the way, combined don't move the number of pax that ATL does according to ACI http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/disp...i_content.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5_9_2__) .

The additional times added to the bloock-scheduled times over and above flying time (the time added in for taxi/hold) is longer at ATL than at CLT or MEM.

ATL-GSO has a 1 hr 25 min block time for a 44 minute flight (41 minutes of ground/taxi time added in) MEM-GSO has a block time of 1 hr 45 minutes for a flight that lasts 1 hr 25 minutes (20 minutes built in for taxi/hold time). If taxi/hold times at ATL are 20 minutes longer than MEM (and other NW hubs), then DL should be blowing NW out of the water in on time arrivals/departures. Oh wait.. .they aren't ...... NW is tops in the industry in on time arrivals/departures.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

ATL is a clusterf$%k...I was just there yesterday and it grows increasingly worse. First off, we were held on the ground at CAE for 25 minutes due to the pattern into ATL. Then, once we arrived on the fifth runway, our taxi time into the terminal was actually longer than the flight from CAE-ATL. I do everything in my power to avoid ATL these days, as it is ridiculous. I tried flying CAE-MCO-FLL, but it was booked full, so unfortunately it was ATL as the connection.

I actually chose to fly FLL-DFW-CLE on AA recently to avoid a trip through ATL. I only fly AA, CO, DL and NW, by the way...so that is why I did not choose US or anyone else. And I could not get a cheap flight via DTW or MEM or I gladly would've chosed NW. The rolling banks did not work in ATL and that runway re-surfacing is not helping, but it still makes very little difference...why not have all departures on one side and all arrivals on one side?


User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Here's some background on the topic at hand. It may not directly answer all of the questions, but it is all related to 10/28 and triple-simultaneous approaches:

http://www.faa.gov/events/benchmarks...iple%20simultaneous%20approaches'

It's going to be rough over the next few weeks until 8R/26L reopens, though, especially on those bad weather days. Hoping for smooth connections on Oct 26 & 29 when I fly through.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 15):
then DL should be blowing NW out of the water in on time arrivals/departures. Oh wait.. .they aren't ...... NW is tops in the industry in on time arrivals/departures.

Hmm...according to DOT's most recent stats NW isn't even in the top 3: http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2006/dot092_06/html/dot092_06.html

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 15):
The additional times added to the bloock-scheduled times over and above flying time (the time added in for taxi/hold) is longer at ATL than at CLT or MEM.

ATL-GSO has a 1 hr 25 min block time for a 44 minute flight (41 minutes of ground/taxi time added in) MEM-GSO has a block time of 1 hr 45 minutes for a flight that lasts 1 hr 25 minutes (20 minutes built in for taxi/hold time).

You picked one route. I said on average I would wager that the taxi times are less ACROSS THE BOARD. Also, again, NW and HP/US do not enplane at CLT or MEM combined the number of pax that DL does at ATL. Furthermore, combined, they don't have as much of the domestic market share as DL does (11.9% combined vs. 12.1%). Come talk to me when they move as many people as DL does.

Good to see you have punted on the CLT/MEM handling weather better then ATL argument though.


User currently offlineKraw From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Quoting PeachAir (Reply 10):
I notice coming in Friday that all the concrete has been removed from 26L/8R. Phoneomenal task to have completed inside of two weeks!

almost. There's still a good chunk left at H/A and C/D  Wink

Nov 8th is the "finish" date, but hopefully it'll open earlier. North side is a PITA in the mornings for inspection



Pastey White!!!!!
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

Quoting Kraw (Reply 19):
Nov 8th is the "finish" date, but hopefully it'll open earlier. North side is a PITA in the mornings for inspection

Happen to know when the end around will be completed?


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

Yet another reason to continue to choose CVG and JFK to connect to southern destinations.

Yeah I think we'll stick with Delta, thank you.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

I will add to the point about how flights are blocked in/out of ATL. If you look at any of the flights to/from my city to ATL they're all blocked at anywhere between 2 hours 10 minutes and 2 hours 28 minutes. As someone that works these flights 5 days a week, I can tell you that the flight time averages 1 hour 30 minutes flat... and sometimes even less, so that's quite a buffer they're building into the system.

I spent 14 hours at work yesterday just to work 2 flights since the system was so behind. Honestly I would have preferred they cancel our RON flight instead of it coming in 5 hours late, missing bags. By the time we had cleaned and serviced the aircraft it was after 2:30am... a shift that normally ends around 10:30.

On the positive side, you didn't have to rebook anyone since you knew the flights they were trying to connect on out of ATL were just as late. Still- a pretty bad day yesterday.

I totally agree with the "ATL is a clusterf$%k" comment. You'd think that being in DL's backyard ATL would be the shining star of the network, but its not, and it's rapidly becoming a city people will avoid at all costs. I had a Million Miler tell me last week that he's had enough with ATL, and since DL cut our CVG service he'll probably start picking up our NW codeshare flights through DTW just to avoid ATL. The poor performance down there is going to start affecting even our loyal customers, and DL better get their act together.

I love the "Operation Clockwork" decals on the side of ASA aircraft--everyone take note that the hands of the clock are always in the same place! I always joke at work that my last day with DL will involve hanging an "Operation Clusterf$%k" sign over the decal- haha.

[Edited 2006-09-25 20:54:34]


Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 9):
But I'm not willing to accept that ATC has come up with the best possible traffic flow for dealing with this. We need some human factors people to chime in and help get this corrected.

Then don't accept it......put out what you think a better plan is and tell me what is the ATC plan now in place!

Human factors people, mmmm wonder what they may offer for this.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 18):
Hmm...according to DOT's most recent stats NW isn't even in the top 3:

NW is tops among legacy carriers.

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 18):
You picked one route.



I don't have time to go throug the timetables, but as someone who has flown through ATL a lot in the past, and now flies a lot through MEM, the taxi/hold times at MEM are smaller than at ATL. If you don't believe me, that is your problem.

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 18):
Also, again, NW and HP/US do not enplane at CLT or MEM combined the number of pax that DL does at ATL.

What does that have to do with anything? As a passenger, when I'm sitting in a plane #14 in line for takeoff at ATL, am I supposed to say "you know, since DL has a ton of flights here at ATL, its just fine that i will have to sit here on the tarmac for 30 minutes before taking off..." that doesn't make any sense. Maybe US and NW have decided NOT to build up a hub like DL has at ATL because smaller taxi/hold times and airports that have lower traffic allow for a better passenger experience. So DL has more flights/more passengers at ATL... thats precisely the reason the DL ATL experience is inferior!



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
25 Kraw : looks like Feb 15, 07, but this paperwork is from 2 months ago and it could have changed. There's still tons of work to do over there
26 Delta787 : Or maybe its because its Delta's #1 hub and also because DL is a much larger airline than NW or US.
27 Ejmmsu : Again.. if I have to put up with delays on DL, that I would not have to put up with on US or NW, I am not going to feel any better if the flight atte
28 Positiverate : Because it is comparing apples and oranges. I don't believe you because you haven't shown the empirical data to back up your claim. You're a Chem Gra
29 Ejmmsu : Well, if flying OKC-MEM-GSO is an apple, and flying OKC-ATL-GSO is an orange, then for comparison purposes, the apple appears mysteriously similar to
30 Micstatic : I would imagine there is ground traffic modeling software (that I don't have access to) to accomplish this feat. Unlike you I don't think pessimisim
31 Iahflyr : AH my friend you don't know me very well....I don't even come close to pessimisim, I am here to tell you what I know from over 27 years experience in
32 Micstatic : Good response. My question would be how receptive is the FAA to incorporating these findings into what they set for standard ground traffic patterns.
33 CIDflyer : I would probably have to agree that flying thru MEM is a much easier experience than ATL. Sure ATL is huge, DL's biggest hub, handles more passengers,
34 Micstatic : The other thing I probably should have pointed out earlier, is that my question was geared at people who look at ATL as an O+D market. People who do
35 MD88Captain : Landing on 10/28 usually results in a minimum 20 minute taxi in. No big deal. The runway construction will be finished before Halloween. I love havein
36 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Thanx...does that mean bonus points. Best be very receptive for if not I'd suspect the customers would be at the local facility pounding on the door
37 Alitalia744 : US? no Delays? have you flown through Philadelphia??[Edited 2006-09-26 14:44:37]
38 WorldTraveler : As for taxi-in times, I believe ATL is building taxiways around the end of at least one runway to eliminate the need to cross an active runway. Not su
39 Kraw : That's Txy Victor. It's the 8R end-around. It will only benefit the north complex and aircraft being moved from City/Delta North to the ramp under to
40 FlyPNS1 : Too bad the facts say otherwise. % of flights departing on-time for July 2006: SLC 85.8 CVG 84.2 SAN 81.7 FLL 80.3 LAX 80.2 MSP 79.9 OAK 79.4 SFO 78.
41 Ejmmsu : The original discussion was about CLT and MEM vs. ATL. I was speaking only of CLT in regards to US airways.
42 727LOVER : I see a nice fare to LAX on Delta. The only problem is the connecting time in ATL is only 45 minutes. Will that be enough? I mean, we’re talking abo
43 FlyPNS1 : If everything runs on-time, it will be plenty of time. If your arrival from LAX is a few minutes late, you'll still be ok. If your arrival from LAX i
44 Post contains images IAHFLYR : What about June and August.........lets get those in that list as well my friend! P.S. Hey manipulate the IAH numbers to a higher level please, damn
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