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CLE Still Planning Runway Extension  
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1100 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Click here to see breaking news headlines
from CrainsCleveland.com


THIS WEEK'S TOP STORIES
Hopkins eyes runway expansion
Officials at Hopkins International Airport are moving forward with a plan to extend one of Hopkins’ two main runways to accommodate more international flights

There is more to the story but I dont have access to CrainsCleveland.com

9/25/2006


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5215 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3385 times:

The article emphasizes the need for the runway to support long-range passenger services sometime in the future. Ho-hum, all heard before....

They always forget that the extension is needed for freight right now. Common cargo planes (MD-11, 747) cannot reach Europe at MTOW from the present runways, one of the reasons so much CLE-originated cargo gets trucked to other airports.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3358 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
They always forget that the extension is needed for freight right now. Common cargo planes (MD-11, 747) cannot reach Europe at MTOW from the present runways, one of the reasons so much CLE-originated cargo gets trucked to other airports.

Unfortunately cargo is not as sexy and easy to sell to the general public, but it is certainly one of the best reasons to extend our runways. Scheduled widebody passenger service to Europe and Asia would be great, but I just do not see it happening any time soon. Scheduled freight service, however, has been proposed before (IIRC LH wanted to start service) and I think would do well considering the amount of freight that is trucked to other hubs.



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User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

CLE (and the city of Cleveland) IMO is not a 'tourist' destination- and given the stagnant economy of several years--i don't see the immediate urge or need to expand there. I dont see lots of tourists and business' rushing there. A longer runway- or much of anything- can save that city.

User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 3):
I dont see lots of tourists and business' rushing there. A longer runway- or much of anything- can save that city.

Well lots of people from Cleveland use Continental, I know this for a fact. The flights are full.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 4):
Well lots of people from Cleveland use Continental, I know this for a fact. The flights are full.

There is a significant difference between being a hub, and O&D traffic. He was referring to O & D traffic....of which there aint that much in CLE.

But I do support the runway expansion. CLE does need to remain competitive and CO is adding International flights....



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User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Thanks MasseyBrown. A "big league" runway at CLE has been in the gestation planning stage for so many decades it has become a case of when I see it, I'll believe it. Now if they build it (11,250') will they (overseas cargo) come?

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5215 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3213 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 6):
Now if they build it (11,250') will they (overseas cargo) come?

I expect you will see charters and one-time schedules first. It takes a while to develop the flow.

Overseas inbound flights can operate now; it only the lift out of CLE that is limited. If you noticed, when the AN-225 came to CLE the flight was a non-stop to CLE but needed a mandatory fuel stop in Delaware to get home.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):
CLE but needed a mandatory fuel stop in Delaware to get home.

Not entirely true, its next stop was Stewart AFB, NY for more cargo... never went to DE. I'm sure empty it could make it all the way home even full of fuel, 9000 feet is still alot of runway.



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User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 6):
Thanks MasseyBrown. A "big league" runway at CLE has been in the gestation planning stage for so many decades it has become a case of when I see it, I'll believe it. Now if they build it (11,250') will they (overseas cargo) come?

I'm a "I'll believe it when I see it" person, too, when it comes to this airport. But Mr. Smith has been kicking some serious heinie since he got here this summer, and there's no doubt he wants some big things for CLE. I think if he wants the exanded runway, he'll get it.

As for the cargo question, I think it will come. Remember, there was an article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer a few years back talking of how a European carrier wanted to set up cargo ops here in CLE, but ran into such amateurish people that they said "forget it". If the runway goes in, and they run into Mr. Smith's group, they'll be welcomed here.

Plus, I think it possible that CO66 in the summer could go to a 762, which has tons more cargo space than the 752. Right now, if I'm correct, much of the CLE-LGW cargo is shipped via land to EWR, where it goes out on a 777 or a 764.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5215 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3110 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
Not entirely true, its next stop was Stewart AFB, NY for more cargo...

Sorry, wrong AFB - I thought it was Dover.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
Sorry, wrong AFB - I thought it was Dover.

Easy to confuse C-5 bases... and I just realized I'm wrong too, Stewart is an ANGB.  silly 



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User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

[quote=DAYflyer,reply=5]There is a significant difference between being a hub, and O&D traffic. He was referring to O & D traffic....of which there aint that much in CLE.

Cle has more O/D traffic then Pit & CVG



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Thanks DAYflyer- I should have specifed O & D...you got my back! I used to live in Cleveland- the city, and ALOT of the suburbs are always talk talk talk- little action. If you're going to do- DO IT! If not, then SHUTUP about it. It's too bad to see a once populous city die.

User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 13):
I used to live in Cleveland- the city, and ALOT of the suburbs are always talk talk talk- little action. If you're going to do- DO IT! If not, then SHUTUP about it. It's too bad to see a once populous city die.

I don't follow you on suburbs talk vs. runway extensions & metro O&D. Yes, it's too bad about the inner city.


User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

Joeman- I am referring to the airport mgt-who are talking about extending this runway-and the correlation with the city of Cleveland- AND multiple suburbs- ie, Euclid and others- who are always talking about 'making the city(cities) nicer'- and they have these studies and so on so forth. IIRC the Plain Dealer a few years back mentioned a "50 year Plan" for redeveloping the shoreway- and Burke. Other cities just get it done- Clevelanders are Procrastinators. Thats why they're all a day late and dollar short. Glad I moved out of that area- there is no future in a economically depressed area.
So now do you see the realtions? They'll talk about getting a longer runway till everyone's blue in the face, THEN maybe, extend the thing anyways...


User currently offlineChrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 857 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 15):
Glad I moved out of that area

...so are we

signed
Clevelanders



Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 4):
Well lots of people from Cleveland use Continental, I know this for a fact. The flights are full.



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
But I do support the runway expansion. CLE does need to remain competitive and CO is adding International flights....

Damn, I was going to say the same thing!

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 6):
Now if they build it (11,250') will they (overseas cargo) come?

Hmmm... PIT has an 11,500 foot 10R/28L runway, and I don't think they have any int'l cargo... They are expanding the facilities like there is no tomorrow, but are any cargo carriers rushing to any committment to PIT? None that I can think of... I am an optimist, not a neysayer, but I am just mentioning something else that is rather similar in situation... I am optimistic for PIT though, and I am sure that CLE service will come in time as well...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2831 times:
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Don't need a runway extension for all the RJ service CLE continually seems to get more and more of.  Smile

User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 18):
Don't need a runway extension for all the RJ service CLE continually seems to get more and more of.

Didnt you hear that CO announced CLE-CDG?...more good things to come for CLE!



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2793 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 19):
Didnt you hear that CO announced CLE-CDG?...more good things to come for CLE!

How long is the runway now? If my memory serves me right, CLE only has two runways going at any given time correct? Or is it one?



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User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2790 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 20):
How long is the runway now? If my memory serves me right, CLE only has two runways going at any given time correct? Or is it one?

CLE has 4 runways, the longest is 9000', next is 8999', next is 7096' and the shortest is 6017'. The three longest are all paralell to each other.



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User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2782 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
CLE has 4 runways, the longest is 9000', next is 8999', next is 7096' and the shortest is 6017'. The three longest are all paralell to each other.

In reality 24C/6C is used only as a taxiway. Sooner or later it will be decommissioned entirely. Cleveland uses at any given time 3 runways, 24L/6R and 24R/4L are both 9,000 feet, both have precision approaches and simultaneous approaches can be made in cigs over 1500 feet. 28/10 is 6017 feet and is only used in stronger crosswinds, however I've seen them land 10 and 6L while departing 6R more than a few times.



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User currently offlineRampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2756 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 22):

In reality 24C/6C is used only as a taxiway. Sooner or later it will be decommissioned entirely. Cleveland uses at any given time 3 runways, 24L/6R and 24R/4L are both 9,000 feet, both have precision approaches and simultaneous approaches can be made in cigs over 1500 feet. 28/10 is 6017 feet and is only used in stronger crosswinds, however I've seen them land 10 and 6L while departing 6R more than a few times.

All true. 24C/06C is being maintained as a runway (although used as a taxiway) until such time as the extension is completed. This way, when that one gets shut down for construction we will still have two main runways, although for a time we will lose the simultaneous approach ability.

Landings on 10 and 06L are quite common when the weather is good...it really ups the arrival rate as well.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2753 times:

Wow I just realized I said 24R/4L... better mention that before I get blasted.  silly 

Kinda fun watching the 753s landing on 10/28... random observation.



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25 N1120A : One is 8999 feet, not really a difference but worth noting.
26 Post contains images Falcon84 : Yeah-especially if we have an ATC controller who isn't afraid to do that, and land them simeltaneously. When we get the 'fraidy cats up there, we go
27 Joeman : 747LUVR, as a CLE resident, I do agree with you about the all talk and no action plans: poor leadership and politics usually to blame. The grand plans
28 N766UA : That's 9,000 feet in my book. Next time they re-paint the end lines they can add 12 inches and make it official. You mean 9 out of 10 of them? I swea
29 Tys777 : Here is my question. How in the world does TOL have a longer runway (10600) Than CLE? I know TOL has a fairly large cargo service and gets 747-400's o
30 N766UA : Because they built one, CLE didn't. Remember CLE, until recently, hasn't had any room to expand.
31 Joeman : The prospect of competing with other cities where things simply happen as opposed to CLE proposals that go nowhere truly bothers me. Maybe CLE should
32 PITrules : Actually PIT hasn't expanded their cargo facilities in about 25 years. There once was a grand plan to build 4 air cargo buildings at the site of the
33 CentPIT : Are you talking about the facility near the AV Center? I never see cargo aircraft there, but I have heard quite a few times (not just on this website
34 PITrules : Yes, that's the facility. Seems like it's used for trucking only - no aircraft. Original plans for that area were for 4 air cargo buildings capable o
35 Redngold : I love watching them from the 100th Bomb Group when they land on 10. The lucky thing is now that we have a second runway with full ILS/DME capability,
36 Steeler83 : Man, I will tell you what... After reading this post, and the other ones below that regarding any hopes of PIT expansion really... I have a passionat
37 Flyinryan99 : Mostly because of the 180th wing of the ANG.
38 N766UA : Vipers don't need 10,000 feet of runway...
39 Post contains images Flyinryan99 : They're not the Vipers, they're the Stingers IIRC back when they extended 7/25 the ANG requested an extension and the port was already wanting to do t
40 MasseyBrown : Interesting that TOL has only 10600. When the first round of bids for 11250FT for 6R-24L were rejected in July, the city talked about reducing the le
41 Joeman : Bids were rejected due to them far exceeding that which was estimated by the Engineer. Looks like there's more to it than just getting it done, like
42 Tys777 : Somehow I forgot about the ANG even though I used to spend some time around their planes back when I lived up near TOL, It's nice having that longer r
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