Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
JJ To Begin 2nd Daily GRU-JFK Flight  
User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

According to www.panrotas.com.br, JJ's Commercial and Marketing vice-president announced that their 2nd daily flight to New York will begin on Dec 15th, as a daylight flight. No word on equipment yet.

Regarding, LHR he stated that the first 15 flights are sold out and that JJ should not join any global alliances at this point, as for the fact that Brazil is a O&D market and not a transiting destination. Therefore is more interesting to have code-share agreements with companies from different alliances, like AF from Skyteam and AA from One World for example and the ideal model would be QF's, which is from One World but keep bilateral agreements with other carriers outside One World.

A code-share, from Europe to the Far East should be announced soon, as they keep an agreement with JAL, but it's not code-share.

Rgs,

Neo

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6483 times:

It will be the same A330 that flies the redeye. MIA-GIG will also be launched in early 2007, though no word on an exact date, but it has been confirmed by TAM.


a.
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6408 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
It will be the same A330 that flies the redeye. MIA-GIG will also be launched in early 2007, though no word on an exact date, but it has been confirmed by TAM.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that one! JJ seems to focus on GRU before any attempt to give GIG a try!!! There's been a lot of noise here regarding JJ's new flight to CDG and MIA to GIG, and so far nothing official has been released!

It wouldn't surprise me if they decided to launch GRU-MXP and 3rd GRU-CDG (not sure if it's possible) instead.

Although some members contrary positions, GIG's market is rather restricted and will always fall short on GRU. Just look what AF, LH, LA and IB have done recently.

Not to mention JJ's commitment to the Sao Paulo market!!! When it comes to $$$ TAM knows where they can make the most of it!!!!


User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
There's been a lot of noise here regarding JJ's new flight to CDG and MIA to GIG, and so far nothing official has been released!

There were quite a few comments of TAM's CEO Bologna that they plan GIG-CDG. But probably they first need to have the rights for sure to announce it.

Of course TAM is committed to SP. But in my opinion even for TAM there is no point in flying three aircrafts on the same route at quasi the same time. Also, and different from AF, LH, LA and IB, TAM has an extensive network within Brazil. Therefore I guess that at least one of the three aircrafts will be connecting traffic. In SP many domestic flights are leaving from CGH, whereas TAM recently started creating a hub for the north-east directly in GIG. If possible it therefore makes perfect sense to route connecting passengers via GIG instead of requiring them to transfer between GRU and CGH. In addition, TAM probably looses currently some of the CDG-GIG traffic to AF's direct flight. So they will probably be able to grep a bigger share here.

By re-routing connecting passengers they also free up capacity for more people with destination GRU. Also they free up capacity on the connecting domestic flights from SP for passengers arriving on the new services from LHR and in future also from MXP. Of course every new destination will first be launched from GRU.

[Edited 2006-09-25 20:45:17]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 2):
I wouldn't hold my breath for that one! JJ seems to focus on GRU before any attempt to give GIG a try!!! There's been a lot of noise here regarding JJ's new flight to CDG and MIA to GIG, and so far nothing official has been released!

Wrong. MIA-GIG has been announced...

http://www.mercadoeeventos.com.br/sc...?pStrLink=1,13,0,14420&IndSeguro=0

The actual start date and schedule will be announced next month.



a.
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6249 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
The actual start date and schedule will be announced next month.

Untill we don't have anything official on JJ's website, I guess we will have to wait and see then!!! I don't expect it to be any sooner than Aug 2007. IMO GIG can't hold MIA 3x daily service on an year-round basis... TAM could use the aircraft to fly to more $$ routes such as GRU-MXP even GRU-MAD.

Quoting Jog (Reply 3):
Of course TAM is committed to SP. But in my opinion even for TAM there is no point in flying three aircrafts on the same route at quasi the same time. Also, and different from AF, LH, LA and IB, TAM has an extensive network within Brazil. Therefore I guess that at least one of the three aircrafts will be connecting traffic. In SP many domestic flights are leaving from CGH, whereas TAM recently started creating a hub for the north-east directly in GIG. If possible it therefore makes perfect sense to route connecting passengers via GIG instead of requiring them to transfer between GRU and CGH. In addition, TAM probably looses currently some of the CDG-GIG traffic to AF's direct flight. So they will probably be able to grep a bigger share here.

I don't agree!!! JJ hub for Northeast!!! Please, almost 50% (if not higher) passengers from northeast prefer to fly via LIS with TP. Not to mention increased service by Air Europa in SSA.

Anyways.....I rather wait and see how JJ's CDG and MIA flights will perform........So far GIG has proven to be a secondary entry point to Brazil, with limited international service!


User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
JJ hub for Northeast!!!

Sorry, I was unclear... the hub for the north-east was of course not thought for passengers arriving from Europe but rather for flights coming from the South. That's why TAM stops in SSA or REC once weekly and maybe the new flights will do as well once weekly. However, if you go to VIX, BSB or Belo Horizonte there is probably no real difference between flying via GRU or via GIG. Also I met quite a few Brazilians going to the northeast on TAM flights CDG-GRU already.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
So far GIG has proven to be a secondary entry point to Brazil, with limited international service!

I agree that it will never beat GRU. However, at peak times TAM is currently at their limits of capacity in GRU and CGH. I am just wondering where they want to put the people checking-in for the sold-out LHR flights  Wink (Some weeks ago I was really thinking about going via LHR on my next trip to Sao Paulo in November, just to get a less crowded plane compared to the always full CDG flights... How stupid must I have been...).

BTW: Has any plan developed how to extend the check-in areas of TAM and GOL at GRU nowadays? Or has even something happened already? When I was checking in there at night in July it was just crazy...


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
Untill we don't have anything official on JJ's website, I guess we will have to wait and see then!!! I don't expect it to be any sooner than Aug 2007. IMO GIG can't hold MIA 3x daily service on an year-round basis... TAM could use the aircraft to fly to more $$ routes such as GRU-MXP even GRU-MAD.

Dude, it is official. They have announced GIG-MIA, GIG-CDG, and GRU-MXP, though they have not set the dates. If you don't like that, fine, but it is official, and you can't dispute that.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6085 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
IMO GIG can't hold MIA 3x daily service on an year-round basis... TAM could use the aircraft to fly to more $$ routes such as GRU-MXP even GRU-MAD.

AA2919/AA2980 (second GIG-MIA) is seasonal, will stop in April. MIA is a gateway to the US and it's better to fly from both airports where TAM is already established (GIG and MIA) than open a new base on a market with more than 21 weekly flights (IB 17, UX 8, Air Madrid 7, PU 3) and they couldn't offer a single connection (MAD). Madrid is not a market for TAM nowadays.
TAM will fight for CNF, VIX, BSB and off course GIG markets to MIA, something they could do from any point.

A side note, i heard from a TAM director that GIG-CDG will keep a weekly stop at SSA (like GRU-REC-CDG), may be JJMNGR can confirm this in the near future. MIA-GIG also could keep a weekly daily light with stop at REC.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6055 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
AA2919/AA2980 (second GIG-MIA) is seasonal, will stop in April.

Not in CRS past April, but, as of now, it will be 5x weekly May-Nov, 7x Dec-Apr. The reason it was taken out is because AA might be looking at moving those seven frequencies to a new Brazilian gateway in the Northeast, or Brasilia.

[Edited 2006-09-26 04:54:31]


a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6016 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Not in CRS past April, but, as of now, it will be 5x weekly May-Nov, 7x Dec-Apr. The reason it was taken out is because AA might be looking at moving those seven frequencies to a new Brazilian gateway in the Northeast, or Brasilia.

Thanks Mark, during the off-peak seems that AA will keep some available frequencies. Their timetable seems to be:

GRU-MIA AA906 772 Daily
GRU-MIA AA998 763 Daily
GRU-MIA AA930 763 Daily xTu We
GIG-MIA AA904 763 Daily
GRU-DFW AA962 763 Daily
GIG-GRU-JFK AA950 772 Daily

Only 40 confirmed frequencies. Seems that they have enough space to open a 3rd route. I imagine AA could upgrade JFK, but with TAM daily light service, MIA seems the best option.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
So far GIG has proven to be a secondary entry point to Brazil, with limited international service!

Traffic in RIO is limited, but there is a clear of lack of offer...

For me GIG has pontencial to sustain the following flights:

GIG-MIA: 2 daily with 3 daily for the High Season.
GIG-JFK: daily by either AA or JJ
GIG-EWR: daily by CO
GIG-ATL: daily
GIG-IAD: 5 weekly (daily on High Season)
GIG-CDG: 2 daily
GIG-LHR: daily
GIG-FRA: daily
GIG-MEX: 3 weekly
GIG-AMS: 5 weekly
GIG-MXP-FCO: 3 weekly
GIG-JNB: 2 weekly
GIG-OPO: 5 weekly
GIG-MAD: daily
GIG-LIS: daily + 3 weekly for high season
GIG-BOG: 3 weekly
GIG-LAD: 5 weekly
GRU-GIG-LOS: 2 weekly
GIG-EZE: 4 daily (5 daily on High Season)
GIG-SCL: daily (2 daily on High Season)
GIG-MVD: daily (2 daily on HIgh Season)

Of Course this would be splitted between different carries..

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5778 times:

Quoting Neo (Reply 11):
GIG-MIA: 2 daily with 3 daily for the High Season.
GIG-JFK: daily by either AA or JJ
GIG-EWR: daily by CO
GIG-ATL: daily
GIG-IAD: 5 weekly (daily on High Season)
GIG-CDG: 2 daily
GIG-LHR: daily
GIG-FRA: daily
GIG-MEX: 3 weekly
GIG-AMS: 5 weekly
GIG-MXP-FCO: 3 weekly
GIG-JNB: 2 weekly
GIG-OPO: 5 weekly
GIG-MAD: daily
GIG-LIS: daily + 3 weekly for high season
GIG-BOG: 3 weekly
GIG-LAD: 5 weekly
GRU-GIG-LOS: 2 weekly
GIG-EZE: 4 daily (5 daily on High Season)
GIG-SCL: daily (2 daily on High Season)
GIG-MVD: daily (2 daily on HIgh Season)

Most of the above will continue to be in the your wish list!!


User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

Guys,

What I can tell you for instance is that USA equip. is going to change from A332 to T7.

I have the infos about more routes and equips. but I can post only from the moment this info. can become public.

Ops!!! Taste curiosity!!!

Cheers,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5770 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Neo (Reply 11):
GIG-MIA: 2 daily with 3 daily for the High Season.
GIG-JFK: daily by either AA or JJ
GIG-EWR: daily by CO
GIG-ATL: daily
GIG-IAD: 5 weekly (daily on High Season)

I believe only JFK or EWR is sustainable. In fact NEO, you could offer more flights to MIA because it's a hub, same for CDG. The point at GIG are the connections, if you add the power of connections from Belo Horizonte, Vitoria, Brasilia and some others, we could see even more flights from GIG like PTY, LIM and CCS.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5761 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 13):
What I can tell you for instance is that USA equip. is going to change from A332 to T7.

Seems that TAM will get some non-ER birds and they can be used on USA routes (GIG/GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK).. allowing GIG-CDG and GRU-MXP to use the A332's  Smile

Smart move.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1019 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Can't wait. I love flying the T7s  Smile I wish AA would change from 767 to 777 on flight 907(MIA/GRU).

User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5664 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Sorry I'm a bit lost !!

Do I have to assume that JJ will operate the 777 soon ? If so, how many planes ? Ex RG ? Ex UA ?

Thx,


FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 17):
Sorry I'm a bit lost !!

Do I have to assume that JJ will operate the 777 soon ? If so, how many planes ? Ex RG ? Ex UA ?

Just have a look at 6 Boeing 777 To TAM (by Matheus Sep 16 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Basically, there is a more or less confirmed plan that TAM will be leasing at least 4 777 to be able to open new routes (GIG-MIA, GIG-CDG, GRU-MXP) as soon as possible. However the source of these aircrafts is still unclear.


User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 17):
Do I have to assume that JJ will operate the 777 soon ? If so, how many planes ? Ex RG ? Ex UA ?

Yes, you can assume that very soon 04 t7 are going to join the fleet. Origin still unclear.


User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
believe only JFK or EWR is sustainable. In fact NEO, you could offer more flights to MIA because it's a hub, same for CDG. The point at GIG are the connections, if you add the power of connections from Belo Horizonte, Vitoria, Brasilia and some others, we could see even more flights from GIG like PTY, LIM and CCS.

Felipe,

I agree that would be difficult to have both EWR and JFK flights at the same time.. but there is definetly a pontential market for this flight, specially considering the feed from VIX, CNF, BSB, SSA..

Today non-stop from GIG:

AA GIG-MIA daily (2 daily in High Season)
LA GIG-SCL daily (just started)
AR GIG-EZE 3 daily
JJ GIG-EZE daily
PZ GIG-EZE daily
RG GIG-EZE daily
PU GIG-MVD 3 weekly
TP GIG-LIS daily
TP GIG-OPO 3 weekly
IB GIG-MAD 5 weekly
PU GIG-MAD 3 weekly
AF GIG-CDG daily
DL GIG-ATL daily
DT GIG-LAD 2 weekly

Scheduled new flights:

UX GIG-MAD 2 weekly

IMO FRA is the strongest candidate for new-nonstop flights.. and if RG can't resume their service soon, LH should take over, otherwise it will lose even more customers to AF and IB.

JJ should start GIG-MIA non-stop which will be important to develop a secondary conecting point in GIG.

I know this has been discussed here before, but IMO is clear that GIG is pontentialy (O&D and Conecting Pax) underserved, with GRU concentrating 73% of intl flights in Brazil (way to much..) and due to SAO constrains that is where growth will be made.....

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5470 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Neo (Reply 20):
I agree that would be difficult to have both EWR and JFK flights at the same time.. but there is definetly a pontential market for this flight, specially considering the feed from VIX, CNF, BSB, SSA..

This is right, i'm sure JFK has plenty potential to become a daily flight from GIG.

Quoting Neo (Reply 20):
I know this has been discussed here before, but IMO is clear that GIG is pontentialy (O&D and Conecting Pax) underserved, with GRU concentrating 73% of intl flights in Brazil (way to much..) and due to SAO constrains that is where growth will be made.....

SAO has 73% of flights and less than 50% of pax and this includes connections. I'm sure the growth at SSA, REC, MAO, POA and GIG will release the necessary space for SAO market at GRU.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
SAO has 73% of flights and less than 50% of pax and this includes connections

Sorry to disagree.

If you examine a flight the first thing you should do is traffic on the more profitable high-yielding ticket. And this is GRU field. GRU controls more than 70% of business/first class seats in Brazil and this is what airlines are interested in. GRU is currently the only destination in Brazil (and among the few in the world) that can sustain First Class seats. This fact explain the over-supply of economy seats to GRU!

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5295 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
If you examine a flight the first thing you should do is traffic on the more profitable high-yielding ticket. And this is GRU field. GRU controls more than 70% of business/first class seats in Brazil and this is what airlines are interested in. GRU is currently the only destination in Brazil (and among the few in the world) that can sustain First Class seats. This fact explain the over-supply of economy seats to GRU!

Ok Hardi but i'm just talking about the number of flights and pax. The reason is that several South American airlines are using smaller planes like 735 (AR), 73G (CM), A320 (TA), F100 (PY), 73G/738 (G3), A320/A332 (JJ), 733 (RG) on their flights.
And this number (70% of C and F) does not make sense. Sao Paulo is big, ok, but it's not all Brazil.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
And this number (70% of C and F) does not make sense.

Indeed, it must be even higher. GRU should control about 80% to 90% of the business/first class seats to Brazil.

Rgs,


25 Neo : Really??? I think this is exagerated... GRU obvioulsy controls the majority of C/F seats, but it doesn't come to all that. Just count the flights out
26 LipeGIG : Agree with you, it's a lot exaggerated. I can't obtain so many info from a lot of airlines, but we couldn't say the TAAG is all from Rio as well as i
27 Hardiwv : I have to disagree: I will keep my opinion that C/F seats are about from 70% to 90% sold GRU. F alone could make an impressive 90% to 100%. Rgs,
28 LipeGIG : Details on the new flight now available: JJ8082 GRU 0900 JFK 1545 A332 JJ8083 JFK 0800 GRU 2055 A332 Effective Dec 15, 2006. Felipe
29 Hardiwv : Lipe: tks for the update. I'm sure JJ will do well on its twice daily GRU-JFK! Rgs,
30 Neo : And I'll keep my opinion this is exaggerated..., and as we don't have any figures, as Lipe said, we will never know for sure.. On a side note, Lipe..
31 LipeGIG : Hi Neo, there isn't websites with all the charters. I'm sending a private message with an invitation to you. BRA will fly 2x weekly CGN-GIG and also
32 Incitatus : I don't know what that figure is but every time I fly out of GRU to the US, which is 3-4 times a year, I always get non-SaoPaulo seat mates. The late
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA To Begin 2nd Daily DFW-CDG Flight posted Sat Aug 10 2002 17:20:14 by AirafriqueDKR
AA To Begin 4th Daily MIA-GRU Flight posted Mon Sep 25 2006 16:22:35 by MAH4546
Rumor:AA To Start 2nd Daily JFK-EZE posted Thu Sep 14 2006 15:40:43 by NYCAAer
JetBlue To Start JFK-PDX, Add 2nd Daily SEA-JFK posted Wed Feb 23 2005 16:05:38 by TOLtommy
Qatar Airways To Begin Double Daily BKK posted Fri Jun 23 2006 14:10:00 by B742
Delta Announces 2nd Daily SLC-ASE Flight posted Fri May 5 2006 09:38:44 by UAPremierGuy
Delta To Start 2nd Daily ATL-PTY posted Thu Mar 30 2006 21:22:16 by Luisca
Copa To Start 2nd Daily Non Stop PTY-GUA posted Fri Jan 27 2006 17:17:37 by Luisca
TAM New GRU-JFK Flight First Days posted Tue Nov 15 2005 03:02:33 by LipeGIG
ATA To Begin 2x Daily PHX-DEN Next Week! posted Fri May 13 2005 17:35:58 by Jmc1975