Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US Carriers Race To Fly To China!  
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7195 posts, RR: 86
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7664 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Four U.S. airlines this week are intensifying a contest to open the next non-stop route to China, the world's hottest growth market.

On Monday, American, Continental, Northwest and United airlines will submit briefs to the US Department of Transportation to boost their bids for the one China route to be approved this year.


Thought this was interesting...

American on Monday will announce it has dozens of members of Congress on its side.

Who do you think will get the route this year? Place your bets!  bouncy 


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-09/25/content_695839.htm

118 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
American on Monday will announce it has dozens of members of Congress on its side.

Of course, with over 400 members of congress, each probably has "dozens" of congresspeople on their side.

My odds:
CO: 40%
AA: 40%
UA: 19%
NW: 1%

When will the DOT announce their decision?



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7478 times:

AA should get the DFW-PEK route hands down. It has the least presence in China out of all those carriers.

UAL


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7462 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
AA should get the DFW-PEK route hands down.

It's not that simple. DFW is not a well-located gateway for service to Asia.


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

Have you seen the Chinese population in Dallas? Secondly, DFW and AA could take in flights from as far north as IAD to as far south as MIA to Asia and also could connect Mexican and South American passengers with ease to PEK.

DFW already has 2 daily flights to NRT and one daily flight to ICN all operated by 777's. Secondly, AA could codeshare with MU on this flight as well.

UAL


User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7417 times:

Who needs to get it? AA (no service to china)
Who wants to get it? NW (add non-stop service from DTW to China)
Who should get it? UA (direct link between two gov capitals)
Who will get it? CO (money talks, and more important than linking goverments, is linking economies... so NYC area and Shanghai will be the winner, besides being the largest O&D markets of the four options)....



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3081 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
AA should get the DFW-PEK route hands down. It has the least presence in China out of all those carriers.

That shouldn't mean a thing - IAD and EWR make much more sense to have direct China service than DFW.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7378 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
DFW and AA could take in flights from as far north as IAD

IAD-PEK is 6921 miles nonstop. It's 249 miles farther via ORD. It's 1221 miles farther via DFW.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
also could connect Mexican and South American passengers with ease to PEK.

That's far-fetched (certainly not easy) as long as the silly requirement is in place that transit passengers need US visas. It would make much more sense to connect at YVR.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
Who should get it? UA (direct link between two gov capitals)
Who will get it? CO (money talks, and more important than linking goverments, is linking economies... so NYC area and Shanghai will be the winner, besides being the largest O&D markets of the four options)....

I don't think it's as important to connect the Capitals as it is the business markets. DC isn't the business market that NYC is, and CO's application to PVG will nicely compliment their very successful PEK service.

Having said that, I'm sure every application has it's merits, but not everyone can have it.


User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7347 times:

anyone confirm Chicago - Hong Kong daily next summer by AA?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

Based on the merits CO has the strongest case, CO offers nonstop service from the US's Business Capital to China's Business capital. CO's service also offers the only nonstop from the East Coast to Shanghai, CO is also a new entrant to the Shanghai market.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060925/dam055.html?.v=30

Quote:
Continental thanks all parties for their support of the airline's application, including:


The Port Authority of New York & New Jersey
The New Jersey Parties
The Ohio Parties
The entire New Jersey Delegation
12 members of the Northern Ohio delegation
10 members of the Houston/Southeast Texas delegation
New York Governor Pataki
New Jersey Governor Corzine
Lt. Governor of Ohio Johnson
Continental's hub city mayors in New York City, Newark, Cleveland and
Houston
Mayors and airport officials from cities ranging from Amarillo and
Brownsville in Texas, to Shreveport and New Orleans in Louisiana, and to
Fort Lauderdale, Fla. and Madison, Wisc.
The Greater Houston Partnership
Ohio Chamber of Commerce
New Jersey Chamber of Commerce
Gateway Regional Chamber of Commerce
Chamber of Commerce of Southern New Jersey
New Jersey Business and Industry Association
Commerce and Industry Association of New Jersey
New Jersey Alliance for Action
Greater Elizabeth Chamber of Commerce
Manhattan Chamber of Commerce
Partnership for New York City
New York City Economic Development Corp.
China Institute
Asian American Federation of New York



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 1):
My odds:
CO: 40%
AA: 40%
UA: 19%
NW: 1%

Exactly. This is a competition between CO and AA, UA and NW can throw in the towel.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 6):
That shouldn't mean a thing - IAD and EWR make much more sense to have direct China service than DFW.

Depends on opinion. The people who say that IAD and EWR and basing their opinions on O&D traffic and what makes "sense" based on the cities themselves. The people who argue that DFW should get it are basing their arguement on the feed that you can get through DFW. This is similar to the arguement that DL will make in 2008 when they ask for the route. Having a nonstop in Dallas is similar to having it in Atlanta, niether city will fill the plane based on O&D alone, but both cities have the best feeds (with the possible exception of ORD) in the country. The feed in EWR and IAD cant come close to compare with DFW.

[Edited 2006-09-26 02:28:41]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7310 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
Based on the merits CO has the strongest case, CO offers nonstop service from the US's Business Capital to China's Business capital. CO's service also offers the only nonstop from the East Coast to Shanghai, CO is also a new entrant to the Shanghai market.

The arguement will no longer be valid in December when China Eastern starts the PVG-JFK nonstop service.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7303 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):
The arguement will no longer be valid in December when China Eastern starts the PVG-JFK nonstop service.

It will be valid from the perspective of US flag carriers.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7295 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):
The arguement will no longer be valid in December when China Eastern starts the PVG-JFK nonstop service

The US DOT cares about helping US Carriers, not establishing Chinese monopolies on routes.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Exactly. This is a competition between CO and AA, UA and NW can throw in the towel.

I agree, CO wins because the market for NJ/NY to Shanghai is 5X's the DFW market, NY is the US's largest market and Business Center, Shanghai is China's largest market and Business center.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 9):
anyone confirm Chicago - Hong Kong daily next summer by AA?

whoo..that would be nice... yes ...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
Have you seen the Chinese population in Dallas?

It is nothing compared to New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Boston and others.. In addition the need for a direct link from IAD-PEK is very long overdue.

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
Who needs to get it? AA (no service to china)

AA serves ORD-PVG daily with the 772

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
Who wants to get it? NW (add non-stop service from DTW to China)

NW serves PEK, PVG daily from NRT

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
Who should get it? UA (direct link between two gov capitals)

Yes, this is the most needed link, yet UA already serves ORD-PEK, ORD-PVG, SFO-PEK, SFO-PVG on a daily basis. The flipside is that NYC needs a PVG link as bad as IAD needs a PEK link.


User currently offlineMattnrsa From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 391 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7243 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
AA (no service to china)



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
It has the least presence in China out of all those carriers

AA already has 1 flight to PRC, the same as CO. CO flies to HKG while AA doesn't, but AA could add a flight there now if they wanted to.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7228 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
I agree, CO wins because the market for NJ/NY to Shanghai is 5X's the DFW market, NY is the US's largest market and Business Center, Shanghai is China's largest market and Business center

That is definately one way of looking at it, but im not convinced that the route is already CO's. AA does have a valid arguement as well, DFW has the capacity to feed more connecting flights than EWR. While I definately think your arguement is very valid and could very well be what gets CO the route, AA has a very valid arguement as well with DFW.

I also know that the DOT is only out for American based carriers, but the arguement that CO would be the ONLY service to the East Coast is not valid after MU starts their route. It can be said that they will be the only American based carrier to serve the route, but being the ONLY carrier to serve the route will no longer be factual.

[Edited 2006-09-26 03:09:47]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7212 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
DFW has the capacity to feed more connecting flights than EWR

Since CO will be using the Polar route to PVG from EWR they can easily connect folks from all over the East Coast and Southern States to PVG via EWR.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

STT757,

Why didnt CO change the filing to IAH-PVG after MU announced intent to serve JFK-PVG? The are rumblings that CO will start IAH-HKG, if EWR-PVG does not become a reality.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7183 times:

An odd way to look at this.

NW - Connecting DTW-PVG. Great. Shanghai has many car plant and the Chinese auto industry is growing faster than you can imagine. But...Even the Chinese want cars that are manageble and fuel efficient. GM has not done well outside the US without their foreign relations. The Ford brand can be found in Europe and in some parts of Asia but still has not don as well as say Toyota or BMW for tapping the Chinese market. That leaves the upper midewst and NW's network. Though it is a good network, it is limited to North America. If a Chinese Corporate type is willing to travel to the US they might want to make it really worth their while and go to Argentina, Brazil or Peru...all nations whiche have entered into major trade agreements with the Chinese. That lack of a network South of the boarder could be a point against them. But it does sit in a nice location for people from say Washington, Dallas, and New York to connect at. NW doesn't have non-stop to China but has been serving China longer than any US carrier via NRT and once with non-stop.

UA - Idea of connecting capitals..."United Airlines: An airline dedicated to positive US-China relations"... Feel good routes? Great.... But what does UA have to its advantage here. US supporting them and hoping to benefit from it. Air China and its possible bid to join Star. That means possible feed. What is UA's domestic and South American network like from IAD. Is it enough to get not only O&D, but transit for those doing international business. UA already has non-stop to China and transit via NRT.

CO - Good case. Connect two major economically powerful cities to each other. But there is something more to this than just connecting US-China economies. There has to be good transit for South America which has several rapidly growing economies dependent on Chinese relations. Business folks from South America going to China...Chinese going to South America...Americans trading in both areas. Is it there? (CO has non-stop Service to China)

AA - If we take in the point here of local and global connections that would be for the benefit of many, then DFW-China is in a great position. China is looking for greater access to South America and has been putting tons of money into the continent. The transit potential is the big point here. Not only does it help Texas and Dallas economies, it gets feed from the south (US and South America) and even the east. Now if DFW were to have more South American connections, it would be even sweeter. This would be a benefit not only to AA but to many companies, communities and nations. AA has non-stop service to China.

So...who is missing here. Oh yes DL. I wonder if they would put their vote behind CO or NW? The Skyteam Brotherhood. Hey NW can we codeshare? You bring them from China and we can take them South. Hey CO, can we codeshare? You bring them from China and we take them South. But wait... "We would love to serve China too... from ATL. Crap lack of aircraft. Ah good thing we are close with China Southern out of LAX."

Whoever DOT gives the route to will have to be not only the best for America, but the best for making multinational business connections for the benefit of all involved. Oh and we need another US-China agreement because there is no way that Chinese carriers, US carriers and Japanese carriers can all pick up the estimated demand for China. China will need to grant more access to US carriers and the US will have to offer more to the Chinese. There are 5 more Chinese cities that will be open for non-stop service from abroad, some are getting service from Europe now. The US needs to get another agreement so that service can open to those locations as well.

The previous statement was a different perspective on the China Route debate based on opinion written over 2 hours with a class in the middle.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 20):
Why didnt CO change the filing to IAH-PVG after MU announced intent to serve JFK-PVG?

The DOT does not care about foreign carriers, they only are concerned about what's best for the US industry. I do not see how allowing a Chinese carrier to have a monopoly on service from the US East Coast to Shanghai benefits anyone but the Chinese carrier.

There was existing service between Beijing and JFK when CO applied for EWR-PEK, however it was a Chinese carrier.

CO will launch sevice from Houston to China, however they will wait for China to open up more after 2009 and for their 787s to arrive.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

Although it is not covered in this application, I am puzzled why no US carrier is considering starting LAX-China flights. I know MU, CZ, CA all have flights into LAX, but why no US carriers?

Who is consider the dominant carrier at LAX? May be that's the issue... there is no clear dominant carrier at LAX....



Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
DFW has the capacity to feed more connecting flights than EWR

Since CO will be using the Polar route to PVG from EWR they can easily connect folks from all over the East Coast and Southern States to PVG via EWR.

I fail to understand how this will let CO pick up more connecting pax. I think that this is a very close race between the 3 carriers for numerous reasons stated above.


25 GoCOgo : Gee, I guess starting the route in CLE (albeit with a plane change) was in fact enough to garner the Ohio political support. While I'm routing for CO
26 QFSYD744 : Washington D.C. can connect on UA, KE, NH, AA, and CO without a probem. Dallas. DFW can connect on AA, KE, UA, and CO without a problem. New York can
27 Cessna057 : I'm going to have to go with CO simply because NW is in a terrible position, and DFW is not a good gateway to China. I think that the only two competa
28 AirCop : And that's a reason? With AA failure to establish a strong presence on the west coast, and the pacific why would award this prize into an airline tha
29 OA412 : Maybe not, but keep in mind that MU's service will only be 4x weekly while CO is proposing daily service which, in the grand scheme of things, is in
30 LAXdude1023 : Plainly put there isnt one. LAX is an airport dominated by foreign airlines. Thats why UA is much bigger at SFO. Not nearly the competition. There is
31 STT757 : It's a shorter flight via EWR over the Poles to China from the Southeast US than to go via DFW. AA's biggest problem is that they have not shown the
32 Steeler83 : Someone may have already posted this, but the gateways to Asia are JFK/EWR, ORD, DTW, LAX, SFO and SEA... All of those stations are a CO, AA, UA, or
33 CHIFLYGUY : AA serves NRT 5x, PVG, and DEL. AA has LAX, DFW, ORD, and JFK as Asia gateways. Apart from Air Mike, CO has NRT 2x, HKG, PEK, and DEL. CO has EWR and
34 Cessna057 : Don't mean to elaborate on the subject, but does US even have a plane that could make and flight to Asia?
35 Steeler83 : No they do not, at least not yet - with their order for A350. Still, I guess a moot point to bring up, or just a bad one...
36 UALMMFlyer : If NW can use A330 to fly to Asia, then why not US apply for next year's China right using its current fleet of A330 or lease new A330 with minimum tr
37 Cessna057 : I was under the impression that NW used it's 330's for inter-Asia flight rather than flights there and back. COrrect me if I am wrong.
38 LAXdude1023 : NW uses the 330 for routes to NRT from SFO, PDX, and SEA. LAX, MSP, and DTW use the 747.
39 QFSYD744 : PDX-NRT, SEA-NRT, SFO-NRT, SEA-AMS, MSP-AMS, MSP-LGW, DTW-AMS, DTW-CDG, DTW-FRA, DTW-LGW, MEM-AMS, BOS-AMS, AMS-BOM, MSP-HNL are now long-haul A332/A
40 Cessna057 : So why can't US fly from PHX to NRT using their 330s?
41 QFSYD744 : They do not have -200ER versions, of which NWA is more than happy with.
42 LAXdude1023 : They can its just a matter if they will. Its a definate possibility for the distant future.
43 RwSEA : US only operates the 333, which has less range than the 332's used by NW. In fact, NW has used 333's on the SEA-NRT route, and they struggle compared
44 Pbb152 : The quote by CHIFLYGUY is being looked at from an obvious pro-AA standpoint. I think STT757 called it correctly in stating that AA has a history of s
45 LAXdude1023 : Everyone has a bias. I wouldnt say that CHIFLYGUY's comments came through biased toward AA any more than Pbb152 and STT757's comments were biased tow
46 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : Here is NW @ SFO to NRT... MyAviation.net photo: Photo © Jacobin777 Possibly because of the "hot and high" conditions of PHX.... -welcome to A.n
47 Post contains images FXramper : The DOT will take their sweet time in awarding the authority. I'm not bias, but I like AA odds. CO is a close second. We got the MD11 tonight! Cheers.
48 Amazonphil : Hot, yes but only mid June to mid Sept and not necessarily high. Only 1120ft MSL at PHX. Only in the dead of summer with temps to 105 and above would
49 UALMMFlyer : I know I am jumping the gun, but looking at the 2008 China right (to be awarded in 2007), which will go to an airlines without China service.... it wi
50 PVG : I don't see how the DOT can justify having 2 daily flights ORD-PVG, and no US Flag service to PVG from the New York area. If AA wants to serve China f
51 STT757 : Also Honolulu-Nagoya daily 767-400.
52 Columba : Could that increase the chance of the 777-300ER and 747-8 with airlines from the US ?
53 SeeTheWorld : Ding! Ding! Ding! In fact, the DOT could make a strong case for either AA and CO, and therefore, I would give AA the edge based on your comments abov
54 SeeTheWorld : I do believe that the EWR-PVG route would probably be better financially, but the addition of a new gateway in a new part of the country is going to
55 Post contains links and images QFSYD744 : American Airlines has also dropped SJC-TPE.. Just another in a long line of destinations that American Airlines could not make work in the Asia/Pacif
56 SeeTheWorld : While you make good points, AA will not be awarded the authority because they "have more flights from more cities." AA, if they win, will win the awa
57 PVG : If I remember correctly, CO applied for both EWR-PEK and EWR-PVG the last time, with the PEK service commencing in 2005 and the PVG service to commen
58 SeeTheWorld : While you are technically correct, the bilaterals gave the U.S. an option to award China routes to as many as two new carriers. Of course, it was far
59 Atnight : I had forgotten about that... sorry... (Still I think of the 4 carriers, AA needs it more than the others, being the biggest airline in the world, wi
60 QFSYD744 : NW had its chance and flew DTW-SHA, DTW-PEK.. They chose to retreat the route to Narita. When was this and from where? Are you confusing CO with DL?
61 B2443 : I wonder what NW would have to say to convince DOT... 1) NW is the first to serve China. 2) NW is the first to server China non-stop from the US. 3) N
62 Atnight : Sorry for not being clear with you, but I did know about NW having non-stop service to china before... that's why I didn't say a "first" non-stop for
63 QFSYD744 : Can anyone backup the above statement?
64 LAXdude1023 : Ok, I can buy that. Given that DL would have no service to China probably would give them the leg up over AA if it came to that.
65 Jacobin777 : 3-4 months of unoperative time is a lot of time..plus, as others have mentioned, the A333 might not have the juice to do it....
66 Cessna057 : When did this happen and where was I? To my knowlege, CO has never had to drop any Asia routes. As someone had said above it could be DL your thinkin
67 Atnight : I don't know if I'm the only one here on a.net who knows what's he talking about, but believe me, at one point CO served Seoul... not ICN of course (
68 FXramper : Just to add to the China News. FX has won an additional four flights to China and now total 30 weekly. The new Asia/Pac hub moves from Subic Bay to CA
69 STT757 : CO Air Mike flew to Seoul, that's different though then CO long haul nonstops from the Continental US. Seoul was served with a 727 2-3 times a week f
70 QFSYD744 : SEL-GUM was flown and was posed to Atnight, as the only service flown as a CO affiliate at that time CO Mike and CO were two different airlines. In a
71 Cessna057 : Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok I thought that he was refering to a flight from EWR or IAH for some reason. Thanks for clearing that up.
72 Amazonphil : I don't believe it would necessarily be "unoperative time" but just weight restricted. In those 3-4 months in question, all carries operater here...A
73 Falcon84 : I don't think we've ever flown LAX-NRT, to be honest. I've been here 19 years, and don't remember such a route. I do remember we fought like hell to
74 Jacobin777 : Bit different situation from PHX-LHR/CDG and PHX-NRT....bit farther and those headwinds could get nasty going towards NRT... Still, the A332 should b
75 Post contains images QFSYD744 : You are correct. I have been in contact a few hours ago with a friend at Continental Micronesia and she said there was a 747-200 flight routed LAX-HN
76 Amazonphil : True, but in reality there would only be around another hour of flight time PHX-NRT as compared to say an LAX-NRT or SFO-NRT flight so if flights mak
77 PVG : Noted. Unfortunately, both current services are to PEK from the New York area, which means that either way, I've got to stop and connect somewhere. I
78 Post contains images QFSYD744 : That has been and always will be the reason AA outlasts other airlines. American Airlines has insufficient feed at JFK compared to Continental Airlin
79 Jacobin777 : Survival of the fittest...but AA's ORD-PVG flight is doing very well...as well as ORD-DEL.... true, but once again, weather condition in PHX is much
80 Apodino : I am going to take a different look at this. Personally I think UA should get the award from IAD myself for the following reasons. 1. Its a capital to
81 Amazonphil : Correct. But only during those 3-4 months, rest of the year LAX/PHX are pretty much the same in temps and humidity day and night. However I don't kno
82 Post contains images Jacobin777 : -possibly there is no consistent market yet for PHX-China.. -I think timings would be a bit messed up too...AA's ORD-PVG departs in the morning and a
83 Amazonphil : Sorry, I was referring to my comparisons to the weather conditions btw PHX/LAX/SFO, not the flights out each respective city..
84 Post contains images Pdxintl : DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS! With this administration, I'm counting on either AA or CO. The tie will go to CO's oil-laden Houston, just wait and see.
85 FlyDeltaJets : What kind of metal are they bringing to my airport and any inda on where they will be parking it.
86 B2443 : A346.
87 RwSEA : Nice analysis. I agree that IAD is probably the best case for service if you ignore the fact that UA already has lots of flights to China. Unfortunat
88 LAXdude1023 : I think the later will be what would take DL over AA if it does come to that (which I doubt, my money is on AA for DFW-PEK). ATL does have more fligh
89 SeeTheWorld : You are absolutely wrong on why AA got the award last year, and it just shows your lack of knowledge as to the Order. I suggest you go back and read
90 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Ok..got ya. .
91 Dc10s4ever : I dont think AA has rights to fly to HKG from ORD or any other city. This is why they have such a strong tie to CX.
92 LAXdude1023 : They have expressed interest in serving the route, whether they have the means yet I dont know. Im not sure if CX would be interested in the route ei
93 Vega : The only Trans-Atlantic carrier that serves PHX is BA - with a 744. PHX does not see a 330 comparative aircraft, such as the 340. A US A330-300 would
94 PVG : Thanks for the lecture Genius. Who cares what they state as reasons. What do you expect them to say: "We got pressure from a politician because he go
95 SeeTheWorld : It's not a lecture, it's fact. And as far as population goes (or local market for that matter), that is not the only factor. If it were, the DOT coul
96 Post contains images Amazonphil : True, but what about the 332?? It's been suggested above here that it could make the trip. I'm not all up on the specs of A330's or A340's, etc. I'm
97 Gigneil : LHR001, I mean MalpensaSFO, is that you? Nah. I think a 332 PHX-NRT would be a struggle, and US doesn't have any just yet. Any such flying for them w
98 Post contains images Amazonphil :
99 Zvezda : The decision process stinks. It should be an auction. The most commercially viable route would win. There would be no opportunity for corruption, lob
100 SeeTheWorld : I don't necessary disagree with you, but that's not how the process is set-up. DOT's ultimate goal is "benefit to consumers" which can be intrepreted
101 LAXdude1023 : I agree. Both CO's and AA's applications have good merit. They will both service 2 different areas and groups of people. I personally think they are
102 EWRCabincrew : This has been a great thread, but one question still has yet to be answered (or at least a timeframe). When is the DOT going to rule on the route? All
103 PVG : I don't understand you. You run around using the word ignorance, but then agree that AA may get the route because of politics although CO has the mor
104 LAXdude1023 : In a perfect world... It definately would be for people traveling from the east coast, but there is a large population that it wouldnt serve well too
105 GoCOgo : Well, it's not that DL is just biding their time, they are shut out for 2007 as the 2007 authority is for incumbents (i.e. those with China service a
106 PVG : The world isn't perfect. But, to tell me that AA deserved to get that service last year for any reason other than politics is being naive. Yes, the sa
107 LAXdude1023 : Im with you on this. Even though UA and AA seem to be filling their planes well, perhaps the service could be better elsewhere. This just happens to
108 WesternA318 : Doesnt AA have the rights to HKG from TWA? I know at the time of the TW/AA rape, TWA had the rights to HKG, Tokyo, and Manila in the Far East. Any ot
109 FXramper : I believe so, that is why they entertained ORD-HKG before. Commavia should know. Does anyone have an approx time for the DOT decision on the new rout
110 SeeTheWorld : While I said politics could have an effect, it generally is not the deciding factor. And as far as going to the docket and reading the Order, I sugge
111 SeeTheWorld : You just make all sorts of huge assumptions without looking at the facts. You're far too biased, and you refuse to consider the pros and cons of vari
112 Atnight : SeeTheWorld, great post! you couldn't have laid it out clearer! you showed you know what you are talking about and also put some assuming a.netters i
113 OA412 : Don't forget Kahala777!
114 Daron4000 : Whatever happened to Kahala anyways...?
115 OA412 : He deleted himself and came back as MalpensaSFO
116 EWRCabincrew : Again, I ask this of all posting here, when does the DOT make its ruling? The speculation and debate is great, but anyone with REAL insight as to whe
117 GoCOgo : *bumps to top* Yeah, does anyone know? IF the route is to start in April, should DOT get in gear on making a selection so the airline can adequately
118 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : There’s no set date. The DOT obviously has other matters on its plate that are much more important, thus they will probably take their time like th
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Not All Non-Euro/US Carriers Transfer To Lhr? posted Sun Feb 10 2002 16:09:30 by Airmale
Why No US Carriers To TIJ? posted Sun Oct 15 2006 16:34:18 by RobertS975
Why No US Carriers To Iceland? posted Mon Apr 3 2006 02:18:07 by CIDflyer
Did Any US Carriers Ever Operate 762ERs To Asia? posted Fri Mar 3 2006 19:12:28 by DCAYOW
US Carriers To WAW... posted Fri Feb 10 2006 21:49:06 by BlueSky1976
US Carriers To South Africa? posted Fri Sep 2 2005 13:27:37 by Springbok139
Why Don't US Carriers Fly To SA? posted Tue Feb 1 2005 12:59:45 by Bluepoole
CO 7E7 Order: Other US Carriers To Follow? posted Fri Dec 31 2004 03:47:16 by JumboJet
Hainan Airlines To Operate China-US Flights posted Wed Aug 11 2004 04:14:16 by B2443
US Carriers To Africa? posted Wed Feb 4 2004 03:01:44 by AA787