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Delta: Salt Lake City-Winnipeg 01/08/2007  
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Posted (7 years 12 months ago) and read 4464 times:

Delta Airlines today announced service to Salt Lake City from Winnipeg, Manitoba.
SALT LAKE CITY,

Quote:
Sept. 25, 2006 -- Delta Air Lines this winter will add two new routes from its fastest growing domestic hub with new daily nonstop service between Salt Lake City and Winnipeg, Canada...
Delta Connection carrier SkyWest Airlines will offer customers two daily nonstop round-trip flights between Salt Lake City and Winnipeg, effective Jan. 8, 2007....our Salt Lake City hub will offer customers access to 105 cities, further solidifying Salt Lake City's position as one of the largest airline hubs in the West in terms of destination served."

From Delta Press Release
Winnipeg represents the largest Canadian market between Calgary (YYC) and Toronto (YYZ), so hence the focus on potential O&D numbers in trying out this route on DLC/SkyWest. My question is does this represent the best new Canadian market DL can try from SLC or would it have been better to give a market half the size like Regina (YQR) a shot to avoid the back-tracking for western trans-border connections through MSP, or even more possible giving a shot to Lethbridge (YQL) that desperately needs trans-border service to a market they have strong business, cultural and religious ties to?


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months ago) and read 4428 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
My question is does this represent the best new Canadian market DL can try from SLC

It most likely represents the only remaining Canadian market DL can try from SLC.

[Edited 2006-09-25 23:35:11]


a.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4340 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
It most likely represents the only remaining Canadian market DL can try from SLC.

Pretty much the larger population centers of western Canada (YVR, YYC, YEG) with YYZ being the only eastern Canadian market. Keep in mind that the seasonal experiment to YYJ exceeded expectations at DL, so hence this try with YWG. If they do anything else with CRJ service to SLC it will be YYJ (year around) and YQL and YQR as the next likely tests.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

Wow SLC is really making a name for itself since the dehub of DFW..Good to see DL building up SLC back to it glory days (Western Era).


Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineFlyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

YEG and YYC are doing so well, I hope they add flights or bigger planes on those routes. I know YWG will be a good market for them.

User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

YWG-SLC is interesting, but I have to wonder about it - DL can make use of the long-running NWA presence in YWG - Worldperks members are a good target market, but there's little affinity for DL itself, and there is going to be very little in the way of O&D traffic. And while SLC isn't bad as a connecting point to California, PHX, or LAS, the SLC connection would be poorly positioned against AC or UA or WS or US adding more nonstops or new routes to any of those markets. (While I may use the SLC route at some point, that will partly depend on whether my company travel agent continues pushing the NWA flights or not).

YQR or YXE would be interesting, simply because there's no real choice other than a YYC connection for western US flights, and both cities were lobbying for DEN service. Whether they could absorb the capacity is the question, as YQR/YXE sometimes share a flight to MSP.

Pardon my saying I have a hard time seeing YQL-SLC service. I have family in the area, and occassionally fly into YQL or YXH, and SLC is hardly the best potential for development. Yes, there's a lot of Mormons down in Cardston, but for an airport with only about 50,000 seats a year in current capacity, I don't think the critical mass is there for a flight to SLC - there's other routes the airport needs first. If you look at what the Lethbridge market really needs is east-west service, a YVR route on AC Jazz CRJ's, or WS 737's, and a YWG route after that (or YQR, for that matter).


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
My question is does this represent the best new Canadian market DL can try from SLC or would it have been better to give a market half the size like Regina (YQR) a shot to avoid the back-tracking for western trans-border connections through MSP, or even more possible giving a shot to Lethbridge (YQL)

Winnipeg is about twice the size of Regina, so for now, backtracking is the rule of the day.
Lethbridge has enough to do maintaining domestic links...to worry about transborder stuff.
Even flying to Vancouver requires a connection in Calgary...actually, anywhere in Canada requires a stop in Calgary.....SLC will be YEARS off.
But if anyone were to jump in, my feelings are it would be the AS/QX group. YQL-SEA on a Q400 has a good chance of working out.



Delete this User
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

Quoting AC183 (Reply 5):
Pardon my saying I have a hard time seeing YQL-SLC service. I have family in the area, and occassionally fly into YQL or YXH, and SLC is hardly the best potential for development. Yes, there's a lot of Mormons down in Cardston, but for an airport with only about 50,000 seats a year in current capacity, I don't think the critical mass is there for a flight to SLC - there's other routes the airport needs first. If you look at what the Lethbridge market really needs is east-west service, a YVR route on AC Jazz CRJ's, or WS 737's, and a YWG route after that (or YQR, for that matter).

Keep in mind that even Lethbridge is VERY LDS-heavy in it's population, covering rougly 1 out of 3 households, not just Cardston. While the inter-Canada routes you mention are badly needed by YQL, it will surprise you and others the large numbers of those from SW Alberta who travel south to GTF and FCA/GPI to pick-up a flight to SLC, they figure it is worth the extra hour over driving up to YYC and saving as much as $200.00 for transborder service.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Lethbridge has enough to do maintaining domestic links...to worry about transborder stuff.
Even flying to Vancouver requires a connection in Calgary...actually, anywhere in Canada requires a stop in Calgary.....SLC will be YEARS off.
But if anyone were to jump in, my feelings are it would be the AS/QX group. YQL-SEA on a Q400 has a good chance of working out.

SLC has been done before from YQL during the hayday of Western Airlines. 738 service would never work, but CRJ service would do well considering that as I pointed out above so much of the O&D traffic into Great Falls and Kalispell is from SW Alberta. As for a YQL-SEA flight, it is the wrong side of Crows Nest Pass to do so. Kelowna (YLW) and Kamploops (YKA) on AS/Horizon do quite well, but if I were to make a serious wager you would see DLC/SkyWest service to SLC from YQL LONG before any service to SEA-TAC.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4064 times:

Out of all of DL's new domestic routes, one of the 1st ones to go has to be the LGA - LAX flight. Loads look absolutely horrendous. Good idea but hasnt caught on

User currently offlineCYQL From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 86 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

The terminal at YQL is in the process of being upgraded for customs for the Transat Holidays PVR flights starting in December.

I hope DL tries the YQL-SLC flights. There is a large market for people going to Las Vegas and Los Angeles from Lethbridge, and Delta has great connections in Salt Lake City. Ever since we lost Time Air we have been under served.

If I'm not mistaken, the only transborder flight out of YQL was to GTF with Time Air back in the sixties. I don't think Western ever flew to Lethbridge, but Pacific Western was supposed to fly in from Calgary with 737's, but cancelled at the last minute.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26495 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
Winnipeg represents the largest Canadian market between Calgary (YYC) and Toronto (YYZ), so hence the focus on potential O&D numbers in trying out this route on DLC/SkyWest. My question is does this represent the best new Canadian market DL can try from SLC or would it have been better to give a market half the size like Regina (YQR) a shot to avoid the back-tracking for western trans-border connections through MSP, or even more possible giving a shot to Lethbridge (YQL) that desperately needs trans-border service to a market they have strong business, cultural and religious ties to?

Other than size, YWG is the only one of those three that has a pre-clearance facility and you have to factor that in to any potential trans-border route.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
Keep in mind that even Lethbridge is VERY LDS-heavy in it's population, covering rougly 1 out of 3 households, not just Cardston.

Wrong. 7%, not 1 in 3 like you claim, of the Lethbridge population is Mormon, comprising about 5000 people in the town of 78,000. Further, even if you add in Cardston, that is only 3475 more.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Wrong. 7%, not 1 in 3 like you claim, of the Lethbridge population is Mormon, comprising about 5000 people in the town of 78,000. Further, even if you add in Cardston, that is only 3475 more.

Quite obviously you don't know the population of the Mormon religion in SW Alberta at all since your numbers a way off. Lethbridge has three large Stakes which typically comprise of 5,000-7,000 members looking at the number of wards each one has. Statistics Canada does not differentiate the LDS religion from Protestants so you won't get any figure from their site, only the population of Lethbridge which is roughly 78,000. The number is probably closer to 15,000 at the very least. This is around one in five and perhaps as high as one in three. You're correct about Cardston, being around 3,500 and being virtually entirely LDS, but also account for Raymond and Magrath which have significant numbers of a Mormon population, Each having one Stake.
http://www.lds.org/units/find/list/0,12835,2311-1-AB,00.html
The market is there for such a flight. YQL does have customs (but no pre-clearence facility--but then neither does YYJ).

[Edited 2006-09-26 08:29:02]


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

If I remember correctly, the YWG pre-clearance holdroom is quite small and isn't the US CPB inspection unit already operating at capacity. I don't really see how YWG could accomodate any more flights until the new terminal (that is under construction) is operational.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):

Keep in mind that even Lethbridge is VERY LDS-heavy in it's population, covering rougly 1 out of 3 households, not just Cardston. While the inter-Canada routes you mention are badly needed by YQL, it will surprise you and others the large numbers of those from SW Alberta who travel south to GTF and FCA/GPI to pick-up a flight to SLC, they figure it is worth the extra hour over driving up to YYC and saving as much as $200.00 for transborder service.

That's like saying there's a lot of Catholics in Southern Texas, so AZ should be flying a FCO-Corpus Cristi Route...its a pipe dream IMO.

-Copa


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 13):
That's like saying there's a lot of Catholics in Southern Texas, so AZ should be flying a FCO-Corpus Cristi Route...its a pipe dream IMO.
-Copa

The religious demography isn't the only factor making this route viable. Take a good look at the O&D numbers not to mention connecting passengers between SLC-YYC as well as SLC-GTF & SLC-FCA/GPI. A significant portion of this comes from this part of Alberta, and as some other posters have pointed out above they are looking for the best possible way to fly to LAX, LAS, SAN, SFO or PHX, and a DLC/SkyWest flight from YQL-SLC is a possibility that could make such trips easier. DL also offers flights form SLC to SJD, MZT and PVR which are very popular resort destinations for Alberta who don't wish to be bound to one of the many charters.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineVirgin747 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 12):
If I remember correctly, the YWG pre-clearance holdroom is quite small and isn't the US CPB inspection unit already operating at capacity. I don't really see how YWG could accomodate any more flights until the new terminal (that is under construction) is operational.

I wouldnt worry about it..... Delta will pull what United did and just send in a CRJ.... So 50 more people isnt gonna hurt anyone.....

This thread is kinda exciting.... I get to see how many Winnipeg A.net users we actually have.....

[Edited 2006-09-26 20:41:02]

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26495 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
Quite obviously you don't know the population of the Mormon religion in SW Alberta at all since your numbers a way off.

Not according to statistical extrapolation based on a survey of the congregations.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
My question is does this represent the best new Canadian market DL can try from SLC or would it have been better to give a market half the size like Regina (YQR) a shot to avoid the back-tracking for western trans-border connections through MSP, or even more possible giving a shot to Lethbridge (YQL)

Winnipeg is about twice the size of Regina, so for now, backtracking is the rule of the day.
Lethbridge has enough to do maintaining domestic links...to worry about transborder stuff.
Even flying to Vancouver requires a connection in Calgary...actually, anywhere in Canada requires a stop in Calgary.....SLC will be YEARS off.
But if anyone were to jump in, my feelings are it would be the AS/QX group.

YQL-SEA on a Q400 has a good chance of working out.

Stirling:

Winnipeg is about 3.5x the size of Regina, not 2x. Maybe closer to 4x.
See here:

http://www.winnipeg.ca/cao/pdfs/population.pdf

and

http://www.reginalibrary.ca/matters_interest.html

In any event, you're right, YQR residents (and YXE, which is rather larger than YQR) will need to go to the US via YYC or YWG for the foreseeable future. As I recall, even the 'old' Frontier couldn't make a go of YXE-YQR-RAP-DEN on 737s.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Lethbridge is only around 2 hrs from YYC...I don't see why the route is so needed. I'm from Modesto, which is around 2 hrs from a major airport like SMF or OAK/SFO, and there wasn't a pressing need for lots of routes out of there. I could understand if Lethbridge was a bigger market, or if it were more isolated, but I don't understand why it would need service so urgently to SLC. I see YQR happening before Lethbridge.

-Copa


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Not according to statistical extrapolation based on a survey of the congregations.

Then I suggest you find a more reliable source. According to the LDS Church demographers there are over 80,000 Mormons in Alberta.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineYwgjets From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 17):
In any event, you're right, YQR residents (and YXE, which is rather larger than YQR) will need to go to the US via YYC or YWG for the foreseeable future. As I recall, even the 'old' Frontier couldn't make a go of YXE-YQR-RAP-DEN on 737s.

Actually, both YXE and YQR have flights to MSP on NW (as does YQT).


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting Ywgjets (Reply 20):
Actually, both YXE and YQR have flights to MSP on NW (as does YQT).

I believe they also go from there to YVR, YYC and YEG. Doesn't YQT also have an NW flight into DTW. DTW covers all of the larger eastern trans-border markets for NW to YYZ, YUL etc...
One trans-border option for YXE and YQR would be AC/Jazz or UA/Express service to DEN since it is roughly along the same longitude line. Then either direction in the US without backtracking.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting Ywgjets (Reply 20):
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 17):
In any event, you're right, YQR residents (and YXE, which is rather larger than YQR) will need to go to the US via YYC or YWG for the foreseeable future. As I recall, even the 'old' Frontier couldn't make a go of YXE-YQR-RAP-DEN on 737s.

Actually, both YXE and YQR have flights to MSP on NW (as does YQT).

Quite right. In fact, I believe in hunting season (now) YXE frequently sees 752s from MSP on NW.

I was thinking (but not typing) re YXE/YQR to US West & Coast. Should have been more explicit.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineMyOthrCarsA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 21):
Doesn't YQT also have an NW flight into DTW. DTW covers all of the larger eastern trans-border markets for NW to YYZ, YUL etc...

Nope, YQT's transborder service is limited to a (twice-daily, I think) XJ Saab flight to MSP.

In terms of Eastern Canada service from DTW (and I'd argue that YQT is Western Canada, but that's another issue):

NW serves YXU (on XJ), YKF (on XJ), YYZ (NW mainline), YOW (on 9E), YUL (on XJ as well as NW mainline), YQB (on 9E), YHZ (on 9E), and YYG (on 9E).


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