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Swiss European Pilot To Be On Strike!  
User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6067 times:

Hey !

According to Swissinfo.org, today SWISS European has canceled all his Avro RJ flights (24 aircrafts, 17 flights so far).

Cause : Swiss Pilot (ex Crossair pilot trade union)

Consequence : Half european LX flights are cancelled today (the other are operated by A320 family)


Swissair forever !
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

From Swissinfo.org (26.09.2006 08h19)

Quote:
A one-day strike on Tuesday by pilots working for Swiss International Air Lines has led to the cancellation of 34 European flights.

The move affects short-haul Avro airliners. Switzerland's national carrier said it expected flight delays and cancellations throughout the day.

Swiss Pilots Association, one of two pilots unions at Swiss, voted to go on strike on Monday after the airline failed to meet its demands for improved salaries and benefits.

More than 100 pilots are taking part in the strike.

The pilots want their pay package to match those of their colleagues flying long-haul flights.

Swiss, which is controlled by German airline Lufthansa, said it regretted the strike action and was doing its utmost to minimise the impact on passengers.


[Edited 2006-09-26 08:20:07]


Swissair forever !
User currently offlineGlidepath73 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 1020 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

Really bad news!  

I hope they solve this soon and that it will not affect LX to much...

Let's see what all this costs.

Regards,
Patrick

[Edited 2006-09-26 08:20:43]


Aviation! That rocks...
User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6045 times:

More info :

14 flights are concerned in ZRH

2 flights are concerned in BSL (BSL-Brussels-BSL and BSL-LCY-BSL)

1 flight are concerned in GVA (GVA-LCY-GVABig grin

In term of one way flight of course  Smile



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

Its really a shame! And I thought things in Switzerland are different than in Italy ....

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineAlphafloor From Chile, joined Jun 2004, 1277 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

This proves there are still problems that nobody cares about.


Whatever
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5919 times:

I fully support the Swiss Pilot's actions.

Apart from the fact, that from the more than 1000 former Crossair-pilots there are only 260 left @ Swiss and Swiss European (to be reduced to 220), there are TWO court decisions which clearly state that the current terms of employment of the Swiss European pilots is a discrimination against the former Swissair-pilots, doing exactly the same job. And we do not speak about peanuts. The former Crossair pilots earn an average of 40% less for the same work the former SR colleagues do. In some cases they even earn 60% less for the same work. At the same time they work more. More daily hours and further there are less crews scheduled per aircraft than with the SR staff which results in a higher monthly and yearly working time.

These are court decision and Swiss simply ignores it!! Do they believe they can have different laws than everyone else? How ignorant (and arrogant) can someone be?

Apart from the court decisions there is another fact: A pilot flying the Avro with Swiss European does not earn more than someone working at the local supermarket...and we are not speaking about some young pilots starting a job. Most of the Avro pilots are older, have worked with the company for years, have family. And Swiss knows nothing else than reducing their salaries once again...

Cheers
RJ100

[Edited 2006-09-26 10:45:07]

[Edited 2006-09-26 10:45:58]


none
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

I also support them 100%. Most people do not realise any longer what has been done to this group by the former Swissair people in that company. Hundreds of pilots were let go a few years ago under the pretense of saving money. Fact is that they did not want former Crossair pilots in the new, merged company.

Thankfully, many of us have gone on to bigger and better jobs. Not bad for a bunch of people who were told they should not be allowed to take the transition course to the A320 because we 'probably couldn't pass it anyway'. I heard those exact words from an MD-11 pilot.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSpeedbird747 From Switzerland, joined May 2004, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

Swiss European pilot corps to be reduced to 220? Sounds strange... Actually, Swiss is looking for new pilots - for the first time in its history! And I have the intention to apply. Do you think this is a bad idea?

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5783 times:

I no understanding at all all for these pilots at all, they all should be dismissed at once.

User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

According to our old contract, they should recall all former pilots laid off first before they hire one single new pilot. I was a Crossair pilot. They merged the two companies together, but never the pilot groups. The former Crossair pilots were treated like third-class pilots, not welcome at the new company. This was shown from day 1 of the new operation.

There are those at SWISS who will be satisfied only when every single former Crossair pilot is gone. And they will never be allowed to work at SWISS even though the contract we had was completely clear.

Good luck if you want to work there, but realise that other pilots should be in line for those jobs before any new pilots are hired at SWISS. I am one of them. Still waiting for that letter from SWISS for my old job back. Not holding my breath.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineAGRflyer From Switzerland, joined Nov 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5726 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I fully agree with ZRH. It is really a shame for Swiss and the reputation of the company.

I wonder what LH is thinking about this strike.



MXP-MUC-ORD/DFW-FRA-MXP in September LH in C, ZRH-TLV-ZRH in October LX in Y, ZRH-LCY-ZRH LX in Y in Nov
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

If the company would treat them fairly they would not have this problem. They have not been treated fairly since the beginning of SWISS. It is an an embarrasment to SWISS how they treat these professionals.


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5686 times:

Saab & RJ,

I fully agree with the BS treatment the ex Crossair pilots are dealing with for a long time.......... too long and yes enough is enough but I can not tolerate or understand the kind of action they took today

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 6):
These are court decision and Swiss simply ignores it!!

And that is the problem, I can see that a company lets you down, however how f.... retarded is this..........

I highly respect the Crossair pilots for their skills and passion, they are pros. and deserve respect at least from the law................


Cheers,


User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

I am getting a bit worried now!

07:20 LX 632 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE A320 A81 HBIJK Departed
07:35 AF 5111 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE B462 B29 EICSK Departed
09:40 LX 634 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE A319 Cancelled
10:15 AF 5101 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE B463 B28 EIDEX Departed
12:25 LX 638 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE RJ85 HBIXG Cancelled
13:15 AF 5103 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE B462 B29 EIDNJ Departed
16:35 AF 5105 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE B462 EICMS Cancelled
16:40 LX 656 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE A320 HBIJR Cancelled
17:45 LX 644 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE A321 HBIOK
17:50 AF 5107 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE B462 EICWC
19:40 AF 5109 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE B462 GOZRH
20:00 LX 646 PARIS CH. DE GAULLE A320 HBIJM

I am booked on flight AF5111 to CDG tomorrow with a ongoing flight to SXM. I thought only LX flights with Jumbolinos have been affected, now I see that even AF flights have been cancelled and addiotional LX flights with Airbuses ....
I dont want to miss my SXM flight at CDG because of that shit!
What do you guys think?

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

This problem would be solved if the company would force integration of the two groups. Allow equal opportunity for all the pilots and pay according to aircraft and seniority, just like the rest of the airline world does it. This was for all practical purposes a merger between two airlines. Too keep one group out of the loop is totally irresponsible.

I feel very sorry for these former LX-pilots who have been marginalised and have few opportunities within Switzerland. Until SWISS treats them fairly they will continue to have these problems.

And the courts there have been completely unfair as well, refusing to enforce the contracts which the companies signed years ago.

If the company would integrate them fairly I have no doubt that the pilots would be willing to compromise on many issues. But there has been nothing at all for the pilots except that they continue to be "Persona non Grata" within their own company.

It should be an embarassment to every Swiss person how they are treated. That is a country after all where people are supposed to be treated with dignity and respect. But SWISS refuses to do so with the former Crossair employees who are still there. What a fiasco.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSpeedbird747 From Switzerland, joined May 2004, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 10):
Good luck if you want to work there, but realise that other pilots should be in line for those jobs before any new pilots are hired at SWISS. I am one of them. Still waiting for that letter from SWISS for my old job back.

Thats why I was so surprised when I saw on the Swiss website that they are looking for new pilots. I thought they would hire those that were laid off in recent years first.

And I agree with you that the Crossair pilots were (and still are) treated badly within Swiss...

Swiss charges CHF 500.-- only to process the application  mad ! If the salary really is like in a supermarket I wonder whether its worth investing those CHF 500.--... Not that I expect to be payed like a king, but pilot school was expensive enough...


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

So ZRH and ARGflyer:

Can you really support that Swiss is simply ignoring decisions by courts?

And do you really think it is fair that someone earns 40-60% less for the same work?

Do you think it is fair that some former Swissair flight attendands earn more money than the former Crossair pilots who actually fly the plane?

Do you think it is fair that the Avro pilots earn less for more flying hours?

Do you think it is fair that the former SR guys (intra European) have 45 days of vacation a year and the former Crossair guys have only 35?

Do you think it is fair that a former SR-pilot (intra-European) gets 0.46 days off per working day and a former Crossair pilot gets only 0.40?

Do you think it is fair that a former SR-pilot (intra-European) gets 3 CHF per hour for expenses and a former Crossair pilot gets only 2.50 CHF?

Do you think it is fair that the former SR-guys get their pension fully paid by Swiss while Swiss does not do the same thing for the Crossair-guys.

Did you know that the former SR-guys get a pay rise every year while the salaries of the former Crossair-pilots will see another cut right now.

Do you think their salary in general is fair? They fly up to 6 flights a day and earn less than I have earned with my first job after school.

As reported above, Swiss is currently starting to recruit news pilots. It is a socalled "ab-initio" education, that means you can apply there without any flying skills at all. Do you think it is fair that former Crossair people do not get the chance to apply for jobs now they start to recruit again?

Do you think it is fair that these new pilots (flying the Airbus) will see all the benefits mentioned above while somone flying the Avros for years already still does not get these benefits?

Generally, do you think the former Crossair people get treated with respect in the company that would not exist without the sacrifies of the Crossair people?

Can you seriously answer all above questions with YES???  

[Edited 2006-09-26 15:09:54]


none
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5602 times:

I cannot find on the website where they are looking for new pilots. But I am in the US now and cannot access the Swiss part of the website. If I go on www.swiss.ch it will re-direct me to a US-only website.

I would be curious about the jobs there.

There is a part of me that would like to return. But another part that does not want to be part of that kind of company and that kind of mentality. My current job is not bad and I will have some pretty good opportunities here in the US soon I hope. Anyway, I am sure I am too old now to go back there to work. They always liked the 22-year old robots who were good at obscure 'Intellegence Tests".

Anyway, I wish all the ex-Crossair pilots the best because I feel that they are 100% in the right in this situation.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

RJ100 is my best friend!!!!

He is absolutely correct in the points he makes!!!



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSpeedbird747 From Switzerland, joined May 2004, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Saab2000, here are the links. Hope they work in the US. Sorry, its in German only and does not exist in English:

http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/sw-oc-jo-fs-zrh-pilot

http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/about-s...-jo-cockpit-crew/sw-jb-cockpit.htm

RJ100, they are looking for ab-initio candidates, as well as pilots who hold a frozen ATPL (which is my case). Its possible to apply for Swiss International (Airbus) and Swiss European (Avro). Depends on what school you have accomplished.

[Edited 2006-09-26 15:28:18]

User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

I can read the Deutsch just fine!!  Big grin

I just am almost speechless that they want to differentiate between the two airplanes.

What school did you go to? I did Horizon, where about half the teachers were from the old SLS. We did the exact same test in the exact same room at the exact same time as the candidates from the SLS. And our rate of passing was the same.

They have always tried to act like their schooling was better, but it isn't. If you have the CH frozen ATPL you have worked hard. It was hard for me because German is not my Muttersprache and when I did it about 7 years ago it was all German.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 18):
There is a part of me that would like to return.

 checkmark 

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 18):
But another part that does not want to be part of that kind of company and that kind of mentality. My current job is not bad and I will have some pretty good opportunities here in the US soon I hope.

And that would be a loss for us (flying pax in CH) but it is understandable, I just hope things change asap for the good, I mean I am Swiss have a home in
Switzerland & Canada and I am ashamed how Swiss is handling the situation....... and let it go that far................  thumbsdown 

Cheers,


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

Quoting Rotate (Reply 14):
I am booked on flight AF5111 to CDG tomorrow with a ongoing flight to SXM. I thought only LX flights with Jumbolinos have been affected, now I see that even AF flights have been cancelled and addiotional LX flights with Airbuses ....
I dont want to miss my SXM flight at CDG because of that shit!
What do you guys think?

I think the cancellation of AF flight is purely a coincidence and is due to other reasons than LX strike (except if AF handling agents in ZRH are some LX staff who is also on strike to support their colleagues - I don't know who handle AF at ZRH). So you should be OK for your trip to SXM. Enjoy !!


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

AF used to be handled in ZRH by Jet Aviation Handling AG, another former employer of mine. But I think they are now handled by Swissport.


smrtrthnu
25 Post contains images Lsgg : Wow I didn't realized until today how different was to work in both side ! That day make me think of the 02.10.01... In the sense that it's like a min
26 Post contains images Lsgg : Hmmm I guess not... In GVA at least AF is still handled by Jet Aviation
27 Post contains links Speedbird747 : I made CPL/IR at Malbuwit in Berne, frozen ATPL at SRAS. We were the last class to obtain a CH frozen ATPL, end of 2001. That was the time when every
28 Saab2000 : Yes, I do hold a Saab2000 type rating. I was based in LUG with LX and know all the guys at Darwin. The thing is that I am now flying jets in the US fo
29 ZRH : Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 12): It is an an embarrasment to SWISS how they treat these professionals. Professionals??? They are whiners. A strike in this
30 Post contains images RJ100 : You can in no way compare Reconvillier and Swiss Pilots... We here have two clear Schiedsgerichtsurteile. These court decision were made in 2003. Swis
31 Post contains images Lsgg : I've just heard on the French-speaking Swiss Radio (RSR) that the strike will probably end this evening. The Swiss Pilot spokesman said that this toda
32 RJ100 : I guess people are just sick of it. And Swiss today is more or less a medium-sized company in Switzerland...so nothing special at all. Also, they are
33 ZRH : When there are talks planned it is even not only indecent but even illegal to strike! I don't deny that some regulations for the AVRO pilots are not g
34 RJ100 : Come on, you absolutely know that talks mean absolutely nothing...how many times did they talk in the last three years? Dozens of times but Swiss is s
35 Post contains images Swissy : See your point but still you can not compare the pay rate from LH with LX.... And that is the real issue, why did nothing got done even from the law
36 ZRH : I agree. When you have a valid court decision then you can enforce it legally and don't have to strike illegal. BTW I actually don't like Bundesrat L
37 Post contains images Lsgg : From the evening journal of the French-speaking Swiss Television : Not less than 134 flights has been canceled today, annoying more than 8'500 passeng
38 StuckInCA : I'm by no means informed enough to opine on whether or not the pilots have reason to be upset, but this can't be a good move right now. I think Glidep
39 Post contains images Lsgg : So do I ; and particularly his behaviour in mid 2001...
40 HBJZA : I totally disagree with strikes in general and in this situation more than ever. It is so bad for a company that fight for staying in the air ! It use
41 Knightsofmalta : But that precisely is the point which everyone seems to be missing here. Whether or not the former Crossair pilots are being treated unjustly or unfa
42 ZRH : BTW the strike is over. The AVRO flights tomorrow should operate normal besides these flights which should have had a night stop in a city other than
43 RJ100 : But Swiss can change it? Remember that there were pay cuts (several times). ??? And what do you say about the court decisions? Do you really think th
44 ZRH : Again my question: why don't they enforce these court decisions legally than to strike?
45 Swissy : Being currently in YYZ and returning back to ZRH in October, I was shocked again how our "Lieber Bundesrat" Lovely PMs" were handling the situation...
46 Post contains images RJ100 : Maybe I'll give you the answer once you have answered my 14 questions in reply 17
47 Post contains links ZRH : A very good commentary on this strike from a very renown newspaper (in German): http://www.nzz.ch/2006/09/26/wi/newzzESJXIVP5-12.html
48 Post contains images RJ100 : Would be interesting to see in what relation the author of this article is with Swiss... Swiss media are very doubtful when it comes down to aviation.
49 Saab2000 : I would agree that this strike will probably not have a positive outcome for the pilots. But I agree with the principles involved and support them 100
50 Knightsofmalta : Yes, definitely a lot funnier than that Jumbolino pilot who hit a hill instead of runway 28 at ZRH, or the other one who single handedly scrapped a S
51 Post contains images Speedbird747 : It was actaully the same pilot who crashed the Avro short of RWY 28 a few years later.
52 Flying Belgian : I would like to understand a little bit here: Do RJ pilots have the right to bid for an A320 fleet position ? Does an A320 copilot have to fly the Avr
53 Anax : All this with SR / LX reminds me of what happened when Olympic AIRWAYS was shut down and an hour later olympic AIRLINES was born. They merged 3 compan
54 Saab2000 : No, they don't have the same contract. They cannot bid to fly on the other fleets.
55 Saab2000 : I cannot and will not try to excuse the bad airmanship of some of my former colleagues. But here is the crux of the problem. All former Crossair pilo
56 RJ100 : And this is exactly the point. According to the Swiss Constitution (and the EMRK, the UN treaties I and II) you have a basic right called "freedom of
57 Saab2000 : RJ100 is right. I worked at Crossair/SWISS before any of the ex-Swissair employees. My "Date of Hire" was before their date of hire. I was thrown out
58 Swissy : That is a good point, maybe someone over at AMR, DL, CO, NW could give us some insight on how they differentiate their main line from the other opera
59 SQ7345 : A colleague of mine, also one of these "incompetent guys from ex Crossair" ,is now working in the Far East, flying B747-400's across the pacific. They
60 Saab2000 : There is no "Mainline" and "Regional" within the same company in the US. They are different companies. The company I work for has a code-share agreeme
61 Swissy : Saab2000, thank you for taking the time to explain, it is greatly appreciated and you confirmed what I was thinking as I work out of YYZ I am very fam
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