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DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5906 times:
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According to ANAC sources, Delta Air Lines requested to Brazilian ANAC (same as US DOT) special approval to fly a daily flight to Salvador, one of the top 3 touristic destinations in Brazil, capital of Bahia, a state with a huge number of luxury resorts and nice destinations like IOS and BPS. SSA is not only low yield traffic, Braskem (petrochemical), Continental Tyres, Goodyear Tyres and one of the most profitable Ford units worldwide, among a good number of business.

This month, Mr. Didier, South America Director based in Rio, during a lunch to celebrate one year of GIG-ATL route (as well as the very good numbers DL obtained during this first year) announced that two major news would be announced during the next 2 months, and it seems SSA is one of them.

Today, according to Brazilian website Panrotas (www.panrotas.com.br) ANAC is willing to approve DL request as SSA is nowadays only 4% of all international flights to Brazil.

Could be the first daily non-stop service from US to Brazilian Northeast and a strong advise that everyone looking for new destinations (ANAC will not grant any rights to Sao Paulo, and they expect that after open more routes to Rio, Salvador, Porto Alegre and Manaus, even extra-flights will be not authorized any more to Sao Paulo).

DL grow in Brazil is amazing, in less than two years they come from 1 to 3 (probably 4) daily flights (2 from ATL, 1 from JFK and a possible ATL-SSA)

A question for our US members: If DL or an airline obtain extra frequencies with ANAC (ex-bilateral), they need to ask for DOT approval also ?

Let's see the next weeks.

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32182 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

Daily flights? That is way overdoing it. You couldn't even get a daily flight to work to Miami or New York City. SSA is the best potential Northeast market from Atlanta (or anywhere in the US), but 3-4x weekly at most. None the less, it is not surprising to see Delta take advantage of this. I wonder if AA or CO will as well.

SSA is a good market, and as tourism from the US to Brazil expands, it will be the centre of that growth. TAM's MIA-SSA flights rarely leave empty, and a significantly large amount of passengers get on/off at SSA, not GRU.

[Edited 2006-09-27 00:05:00]


a.
User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 605 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

I am glad to see DL expanding in Latin America..... They are proving to be a great company taking their time in expanding but doing so steadily and in the right way... As I have said before, DL is already the 2nd US airline to south america and this just shows how committed they to the region... I wish them luck and hope they continue to prosper!


B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineExusair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 684 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

If a US carrier asks the DOT for permission it's usually to petition for route rights. But in this case it seems the Brazilian government has approved DL, so DOT appoval is pretty much guaranteed.

When is the route scheduled to commence?


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3068 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5738 times:

Could this route operate with a 738, or would it need to be a 757 or 767?

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5698 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
Could this route operate with a 738, or would it need to be a 757 or 767?

According to great circle mapper the flight is 4411 miles. I don't think the 757 has the range to do this flight. I assume they will do a 763.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5392 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Exusair (Reply 3):
When is the route scheduled to commence?

They requested the ex-bilateral frequencies only, not confirmed by ANAC yet, but it's CEO yesterday confirmed that DL probably will receive the approval.
I believe a 3 to 6 month is needed to DL begin the route, after receive the approval.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
According to great circle mapper the flight is 4411 miles. I don't think the 757 has the range to do this flight. I assume they will do a 763.

Even a 757 with Winglets is not capable to fly to SSA ?

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTeixeim From United States of America, joined May 2005, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

Great news - now if DL will only put some 763/764 or 777s with PTVs on the ATL-GRU/JFK-GRU routes, we'll be all set!

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):

Even a 757 with Winglets is not capable to fly to SSA ?

Yes it could... MIA-SSA is 3,372nm, not ~4400nm (Great Circle Mapper). The 757 (no winglets) has a 3,900nm range.

Cheers

Edit: Winglets would be a good idea considering the hot climate at both airports and the winds on the way back to MIA. Not to mention reduce fuel burn on the rather long flight.

[Edited 2006-09-27 19:51:05]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5285 times:

Great news! I hope they get it! It's so time consuming flying DFW-GRU-SSA..But is there enough traffic for daily Service? TAM flys SSA-MIA but only on Sundays.


DCA
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7322 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

I think DL could successful pull this off, but maybe not daily. What about 3-5 times a week?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

Woudn't you get some feed from FOR, , Manous (sp?),Recife, Brasillia seeing that GRU/GIG hubs are so far South, to back track North? It's a worse than MIA people having to go to ATL to fly to Brasil.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5191 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 8):

Yes it could... MIA-SSA is 3,372nm, not ~4400nm (Great Circle Mapper). The 757 (no winglets) has a 3,900nm range.

OK from ATL... my mistake... I expected them to offer a stop-over in MIA. Is that possible?

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5175 times:

If DL flys the route, it will be non-stop from ATL not MIA, and it will not "stopover" in MIA. The 4400 nm distance is correct. This would be a good winter route for DL.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
According to great circle mapper the flight is 4411 miles.

Statute miles, yes. Nautical miles, no

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 8):
MIA-SSA is 3,372nm,

This is ATL-SSA, which is 3833nm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
OK from ATL... my mistake... I expected them to offer a stop-over in MIA. Is that possible?

It is possible, but not probably

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
The 4400 nm distance is correct.

No it is not correct. That is the STATUTE MILES distance. It is 3833 NAUTICAL MILES. Needless to say, DL's 757s are not full weight 255,000 pound models, nor do they have winglets, so this will be a 767 flight.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

YES! I have so many friends in northeast Brasil. I lived in Aracaju for 7 years. It's such a hassle changing and waiting for flights to the northeast out of Sao Paulo. We've waited as long as 4 hours between times. This is great news.

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
No it is not correct. That is the STATUTE MILES distance. It is 3833 NAUTICAL MILES. Needless to say, DL's 757s are not full weight 255,000 pound models, nor do they have winglets, so this will be a 767 flight.

Correct

I took someone elses word for it on the distance.

The point being that the flight would be from ATL and as follows (and you pointed out) it would most likely be 763 equipment.

Being a "special ex bi-lateral" service somewhat due to the Varig problems and I assume during the low season only, will the flight be operating by the Christmas season? Salvador for Christmas would be nice this year, and I have extra Skymiles.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Statute miles, yes. Nautical miles, no

That's what I meant. I'd have put 4411 nm if I meant nautical.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineExusair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 684 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):

What are the ex SQ/ATA 757's that are flying BOG and UIO/GYE? Ships 6901-6904. Aren't they the "full weight, 255k, 757's that are capable of such legs?"


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

Quoting Exusair (Reply 18):
What are the ex SQ/ATA 757's that are flying BOG and UIO/GYE? Ships 6901-6904. Aren't they the "full weight, 255k, 757's that are capable of such legs?"

Every ATA 752 is certified to the full 255,000 pound MTOW and for ETOPS 180. They can also fly LAX/SFO/OAK-Hawai'i under ETOPS 138 rules.

[Edited 2006-09-27 22:31:50]


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

Could the ex-TW 757s make it ATL-SSA?

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4891 times:

Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 20):
Could the ex-TW 757s make it ATL-SSA?

No 757 can.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

The ex TW 757s are fully capable of the highest MTOWs. Remember also that mileage on a north-south route results in dfferent flying times than on east-west routes because of the lack of punishing winds on N-S routes. ATLGRU is only a few minutes longer than TXL-EWR and the PW 757s have better range because of lower fuel burn. DL intends to put winglets on the ex TW 757s; not sure about the ex-ATA birds.

This is great news for the NE of Brazil. It is also possible that DL might extend the route on to another city in the NE. BSB would be a good choice.

I commend ANAC for considering these extrabilateral flights. And the US DOT usually has no problem allowing extra flights if another country is willing to offer then. There is the possibility that AA might want something also and if they do and ANAC doesn't offer options to both carriers, the DOT would have to formalize the request and then have a route proceeding.

ANAC is much less threatened by flights from ATL because no Brazilian airline fliies there. Also, ANAC would like to see someone balance AA and its strength.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4834 times:

Daily? I don't think so, DL should try with a 3-4 times per week and add if the market requires more.
As of possible schedule, if they're to fly thrice weekly to start, better a early evening ATL-SSA and a red-eyed SSA-ATL, so the same crew flies in/out the same aircraft. Similar ATL-Europe ATL dep/arr times may work well, but wouldn't allow that many connections @ SSA to ATL early/mid morning.
Aircraft, It'll have to be at least a B767-200. Doubt DL will fly SSA on B757 as a tag on of a ATL-FOR flight.

Well another thing, If that DKR stop doesn't work well on DL JNB flight, IMHO, a SSA (or FOR or REC) stop enroute to JNB could do OK; or IF JNB does very well, DL could even try CPT via Brazil  Wink



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
better a early evening ATL-SSA and a red-eyed SSA-ATL, so the same crew flies in/out the same aircraft.

The flight is too long for same crew operation, they would go over time.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 LipeGIG : LAXdude, if we consider the size of northeast market, DL just open an office at SSA (probably preparing for the flight), they could look for REC, FOR
26 WorldTraveler : DL doesn't have 762s anymore. The S. Africa comment is plausible but DL would only start it if they can pick up enough passengers in Brazil as they l
27 WorldTraveler : Felipe, can you post the link for the noticia about DL and SSA? thanks also, is Salvador the most industrial/business focused city in northern Brazil
28 WorldTraveler : sorry to keep bumping this up but is there any indication that DL is being offered this route in return for an E190 order?
29 2travel2know : There're aslo FOR and REC (both within B757 range from ATL?). IMHO, after SSA, FOR may be the major industrial/business centre in that part of Brazil
30 LipeGIG : Panrotas does not allow direct link. The news headline is "Sao Paulo tem 73% dos voos internacionais". .... PORTUGUESE .... "... Segundo Milton Zuana
31 WorldTraveler : thanks, Felipe. I saw the headline but did not drill down. I have been to Salvador (have friends that work for Ford there), Recife, and Fortaleza. The
32 Teixeim : If DL runs the ATL-SSA flight daily and can't fill it, it could always try a tag flight to BSB or CNF to bolster loads (if authority were granted, of
33 Post contains links Sampa737 : Is AA still looking at the northeast. This news about DL and SSA took me by surprise. What other airlines serve international destinations from SSA? T
34 MAH4546 : Yes, AA is still looking at the Northeast. From Salvador, you have TAM to Miami, LAN Chile to Santiago de Chile, TAP to Lisbon, and Air Europa to Mad
35 PPVRA : Agree. I didn't bother to check the numbers, but I am confident that the state of Pernambuco (REC) has a higher GDP than Ceara (FOR). REC is also the
36 Panamair : Kind of OT, but I recall Pan Am having flown a MIA-REC service in 1990/91 with an A310 (once or twice weekly); after the DL acquisition in '91, the s
37 Post contains links Avianca707359B : How about ATL-BSB-SSA? (3623nm + 586nm / 4170mi + 674mi) Delta can serve some government/diplomatic traffic to Brasilia (BSB) and tourist/business tra
38 LipeGIG : Also (mostly weekly) Iberworld from MAD - Weekly on sundays BRA from LIS Condor from FRA Star from CDG * Lan is seasonal only during brazilian summer
39 Hardiwv : Although IAD-GIG is long overdue, I found it very unfeasible for UA to open BSB. Chances for UA to land in BSB are almost nil for the coming years. T
40 N1120A : Not a Delta 757
41 Evan767 : Yeah seriously guys, DL won't send the 757 to Brazil.
42 WorldTraveler : I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement like that right now. The ex-TW 757s will be equipped with Business Elite seats so it is very possible that i
43 787KQ : I believe Delta rarely flies to a destination less than daily. Less than daily and you lose your business traffic to other carriers. Yes, I know the
44 Post contains images BigGSFO : Shoooo-weeee....9 1/2 hours on a 757. Dang. I hope they pass out complimentary xanax.
45 ArtieFufkin : So what about my theory that SSA will look good compared to GRU/GIG when travel originates/ends in Northern Brazil? Are the flights from SSA to Manaus
46 WorldTraveler : I don't think CO does and people think it is one great experience. CO's longest 757 flights are just minutes shorter than what ATLSSA would be. The r
47 RwSEA : By and large that is the case, however, it isn't unheard of for them to start flights with a less than daily frequency (e.g. Kiev, Budapest, some Car
48 LipeGIG : I have no doubt SSA will be a very good route from ATL or MIA not only because of people that nowadays connects thru GIG or GRU but also because ther
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