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Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14933 times:

Interview in Flight / ATI

Lufthansa is set to finalise its long-haul fleet replacement strategy in the next four to five months, and is maintaining confidence in the Airbus A380 despite continuing delays to the programme.

Speaking to ATI in Beijing, as the carrier celebrated 80 years serving the Chinese capital, Lufthansa chief executive Wolfgang Mayrhuber said the A380 was still in contention.

“The decision for the long-range fleet replacement structure is on its way – it could be within four to five months,” he says.

Lufthansa is expecting to receive its first A380 in the summer of 2008 – although Mayrhuber points out that “summer is a long time”.

But he brushes off concerns about the latest delays to the A380 programme, describing them as “teething problems” and pointing out that other major aircraft programmes have also previously suffered.

“We have to allow for such issues,” he says. “Obviously it is better if there are no delays but we have to manage it.”

He insists that the setbacks to the programme will not have any impact on Lufthansa’s evaluation of whether to buy more of the type, and is not ruling out a supplemental A380 order.

“We buy aircraft on a long-term basis,” says Mayrhuber. “We’ve seen teething problems on the McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Airbus A340 and Boeing 747-100, -200 and -400 programmes. That’s not something that would impact on long-term decisions.”

Boeing’s 747-8 is also still under examination, he says: “We are looking at the 747-8 as an option that would fit in between the A380 and smaller aircraft – the question of whether we do it is open.”

The 747-8 would form part of an “integral solution”, he says: “We have 30 747-400s. When we ordered our A380s we said that some of the 747s would be replaced with A380s, and some would be replaced with A340-600s and 777s.

“Now since the 747-8 is available we must make a decision on how this extra type of aircraft would fit into the structure.”

Lufthansa is continuing to explore the Boeing 787 and newly-relaunched Airbus A350 for its mid-size requirements. Mayrhuber says that this selection is the “next decision to be made”. The airline agreed last week to acquire up to 65 Airbus aircraft to modernise its short- and medium-haul fleet.

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14819 times:

So not much news.

BTW - it is more like 65 years of service, because there wasn't an LH service to Beijing between ca. 1940 and the mid 50's.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6938 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14776 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
some of the 747s would be replaced with A380s, and some would be replaced with A340-600s and 777s

...and 777s???


User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14755 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
...and 777s???

I was wondering about the "and" as well....


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14711 times:

Most likely a case of bad journalism.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14711 times:

It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.

The 787 or A350 decision is the next order coming from LH.

Some of the 747s will be replaced by A346 or 773. The "and" probably refers to having an option 1 and an option 2.

If 747-8 are ordered bigger variants of the A350/787 seem more likely then additional a346s or 777´s.

If LH goes for A350/787s as they say..


User currently offlineEDDB From Germany, joined Aug 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14691 times:

Really nothing new there...
Interesting though that he still thinking about A380 follow on orders, something which has been ruled out in other threads after last weeks delay anouncement!
Well then, another 4-5 months of waiting...


User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14555 times:

That does not sound like earlier statements about LH and the B748, doesn´t it? For a lot of people the new 747 was a given for LH (including me), but that statement is different.

It sounds more like a possible B777-300ER order in my view.

What do you think?

Johnny  Smile


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14510 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 7):
That does not sound like earlier statements about LH and the B748, doesn´t it? For a lot of people the new 747 was a given for LH (including me), but that statement is different.

It sounds more like a possible B777-300ER order in my view.

Well... given the choice between a B777 and a B747, I certainly do hope they go for the B747...

And that's not only because I'd expect the introduction of the B748 into the fleet to be much easier than that of the B773ER - one is a new version of a plane already operated, the other is a completely new type...

... and then, of course, there's my personal preference: give me an alternative to a B777, and I'll take it... after several flights on them, I still haven't figured out what a.netters like so much about that plane...  confused 



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9528 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14337 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 1):
BTW - it is more like 65 years of service, because there wasn't an LH service to Beijing between ca. 1940 and the mid 50's.

No it is 80 years since the first route proving flights took place and that is exactly what is celebrated these days. LH started service to PEK on April 7, 1980.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14266 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.
The 787 or A350 decision is the next order coming from LH

Well it is strange because it is different from what has been said last week.
Last week fleet planer Nico Buchholz said something like that they are not seeking to buy additional A380s also it was said the decision on the 787/A350 has to be postponed to look at the revised Airbus proposal and that with a decion of a 747 replacement can be expected in December.

[Edited 2006-09-27 13:06:06]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14266 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.

The 787 or A350 decision is the next order coming from LH.

Some of the 747s will be replaced by A346 or 773. The "and" probably refers to having an option 1 and an option 2.

If 747-8 are ordered bigger variants of the A350/787 seem more likely then additional a346s or 777´s.

No, I think LH is just playing Airbus against Boeing, as they mentioned POSSIBLY additional A-380-800s, A-350-800/-900, and A-340-600s, as well as POSSIBLY ordering the B-777-300ER, B-787-800/-900/-1000 as well as the B-747-800I. I still believe if they order the B-747-800Fs, they will also buy 15-20 B-747-800Is.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 7):
That does not sound like earlier statements about LH and the B748, doesn´t it? For a lot of people the new 747 was a given for LH (including me), but that statement is different.

I still think the new B-747 models are still very possible for LH, they are just trying to get the best price on what ever airplanes they eventually order. That is why Mayrhuber mentioned all 6 these airplanes types, knowing that at the very most, only 3 of the 6 types would be ordered.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14253 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
No, I think LH is just playing Airbus against Boeing, as they mentioned POSSIBLY additional A-380-800s, A-350-800/-900, and A-340-600s, as well as POSSIBLY ordering the B-777-300ER, B-787-800/-900/-1000 as well as the B-747-800I. I still believe if they order the B-747-800Fs, they will also buy 15-20 B-747-800Is.

 checkmark 

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
I still think the new B-747 models are still very possible for LH, they are just trying to get the best price on what ever airplanes they eventually order. That is why Mayrhuber mentioned all 6 these airplanes types, knowing that at the very most, only 3 of the 6 types would be ordered.

 checkmark 



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14140 times:

"That is why Mayrhuber mentioned all 6 these airplanes types, knowing that at the very most, only 3 of the 6 types would be ordered."

Agree!!!


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14002 times:

Any sort of public announcement that either type would not be considered would cripple LH's negotiating position. Mayrhuber is all but required to say what he said if he speaks up on the subject, therefore little can be read into his comments. They amount to "We're negotiating."

User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4185 posts, RR: 89
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13717 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.

 checkmark  as Columba noted

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
Well it is strange because it is different from what has been said last week.
Last week fleet planer Nico Buchholz said something like that they are not seeking to buy additional A380s

Here is what was said by Mr Buchholz on September 21;

The airline will stick with an order for 15 Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to buy any more, he said......``The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.

Source for comment carried in this A.net thread

That statement appeared to rule out conversion of some of their A380 options which they had spoken of doing so in the past on more than one occassion. In my opinion the report carried at the start of this thread seems to indicate they are still planning on acquiring more. Their decision is due well after Mr Streiffs Audit of the program will be released and they should also have more clarity on the revised delivery schedule available for the model and be able to make a decision in the timeframe mentioned. Some good news which I was not expecting to hear.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31106 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13557 times:
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I'm guessing the 773ERs chances hinge pretty much on how LH feels load-factors between 2010 and 2020 are going to fall on routes currently serviced with 744s. The 773ER is slightly larger then the A346 and about 10% larger then the A350-1000. With additional A346s on the way, however, I tend to think the 773ER won't be purchased because, at best, it would have around a ten-year lifespan with LH (2010-2020) before Y3 became an option, though LH could keep them going beyond 2020 and phase them out over time with Y3s.

Of course, the same issue applies to the 748, however if LH really needs a plane with capacity between the A346/A3510/773ER and A380, then the 748I is their only choice.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13352 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
But he brushes off concerns about the latest delays to the A380 programme, describing them as “teething problems” and pointing out that other major aircraft programmes have also previously suffered.

“We have to allow for such issues,” he says. “Obviously it is better if there are no delays but we have to manage it.”

A very Forgeardian form of pedestrian rationalization of the most poorly managed "industrialization" of a marquee aircraft program in the history of civil aviation. Not only is such a rationale inaccurate on many levels historically, it apparently failed to pass muster with Mr. Forgeard's overseers at EADS. I'm surprised that an executive with Mr. Mayrhuber's reputation would essentially repeat Mr. Forgeard's feeble excuses verbatim. They're on the same intellectual level as Bobby Knight's famous quip: "if rape is inevitable, relax and let it happen."

Hopefully, the level and scope of pre-certification "teething problems" don't translate into equally daunting challenges for operators once EIS has commenced.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13018 times:

The reference to 'and 777s' caught my eye too.

One of the more memorable newsletter comments of the 'Demon King', aka Richard Aboulafia, back in January 2004, was, "Anyone without a 777 is either not a global player, or Lufthansa."

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/shownote.asp?id=155

[Edited 2006-09-27 16:14:54]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12902 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
describing them as �teething problems�

Sorry guys and gals, much as I love flying in Airbus aircraft, I just cannot resist this analogy.

More like "wisdom teething problems" 3rd molars/wisdom teeth don't erupt until the infant is about 12-15 years old. They tend to hurt like hell and cause all sorts of problems until they are removed. Invariably, they get pulled out because they don't perform as the other teeth, at significant expense to the owner.

Now when is that beast supposed to fly?



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12808 times:

Nice one, GeorgiaAME.

I think that wisdom teeth are also considered by dentists to be 'unnecessary' as they are too far back and too late-developing to be of much use at all in chewing things?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12698 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
Now when is that beast supposed to fly?

The WhaleJet is already flying. When will it enter service? It was originally scheduled for April 2006 (following scheduled delivery to SQ in March 2006). Now no one on the planet really seems to know. Hopefully by the end of 2007.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12326 times:

Quoting Mayrhuber (Thread starter):
We’ve seen teething problems on the McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Airbus A340 and Boeing 747-100, -200 and -400 programmes.

What teething problems did the 747's have?


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12207 times:

Again, from the statements made by LH, I don't see a 747 order coming forward for them. I see 2 versions of the A-350XWB, a 777 order, and the A-380.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12207 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 22):
What teething problems did the 747's have?

Engines on the -100...apparently avionics on the -400. The problem is, those really WERE just teething problems. It's like the little complaints operators have had with the A346. It's not something that's insurmountable, and only aviation nuts would hear/care. The A380 delays are into a whole new category of their own which he doesn't want to acknowledge. It's a teething problem problem when you get it into your fleet and need to work out the kinks...when the entire program slips by YEARS, it's way beyond a teething problem. I'd be worried if my 3 year old were still having teething problems.
 Wink



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
25 Stitch : Or it may be just that LH has made a decision to employ the A380, even after reviewing four iterations of the 747 and with a fifth (748I) now availab
26 Scaledesigns : Told you so.Why cant it happen at LH also..Here come the early A340 replacement 777s!
27 WINGS : " target=_blank>http://www.richardaboulafia.com/show...d=155 Or Qantas. Regards, Wings
28 Stitch : If LH decides to cancel their remaining A346 orders (and put those funds towards additional A380s), then I could see LH buying the 773ER. Otherwise..
29 Lemurs : Absolutely. I have no doubt that the airplane will make them money and be in their fleet for a long time...and almost certainly will generate follow-
30 Stitch : As an investor, I'd be more uncomfortable if he was bad-mouthing the plane in particular and Airbus in general. Yes the plane is late. Yes the lack o
31 USAF336TFS : I dunno... Cargo's almost certain to order the 777F/747-8F (Their CEO all but said so, in an interview), so the possibility of a 747-8i order is excel
32 Post contains images Scaledesigns : The only question I have is will they order 772 or 773 aircraft or both. The early A340s will go..I suspect the A340-600s will go sooner than later al
33 Post contains images Keesje : Most of the times these orders are more rational & down to earth then expected. Lets think about a no non sense approach.. - 744 are doing fine: lets
34 Scaledesigns : As for the 787-10,I dont think it has a chance if LH buys the 777 and A350. I could be wrong.I think they will order 787s,mainly as A300 replacements.
35 Lemurs : I agree with that as well, too harsh serves no purpose either, given the almost certain financial success of the airplane for its operators. I guess
36 Stitch : 772ERs are definitely out. I don't see LH needing the 772LRs range or payload (over set ranges) capabilities. We know the A343s will be replaced eith
37 Scaledesigns : Well the 777F is based on the 772LR with freighter floors. We will all have to wait and see.Nobody thought AC would order 777s either.
38 Johnnybgoode : why would they do that? also, would likely be too late as the first A346 of the latest order of 7 A346s has recently been delivered (or will be in th
39 Post contains images Brendows : The 77W was mentioned as a candidate earlier this summer in the press, I just can't remember where I read it
40 A342 : MAYBE PTVs and new seats in Y, but what else can be done ? The new business class is already being installed. How do you want to make the 744 A380 co
41 Zvezda : I frequently fly between FRA and SIN, usually on SQ but occasionally on LH. I find it very unlikely that SQ will operate a WhaleJet to FRA in part be
42 Shenzhen : LH have been around a long time, and are old school, which don't go out of their way to make headlines by putting down one or both of their suppliers.
43 GQfluffy : Add to that several issues with the emergency exits up stairs and fuselage strengths on the hump...
44 EDDB : I usually like your conclusions, but this strategy would ruin LH since most of their profits derive from first and business class customers and their
45 ZRH : I once read that LH (one of the launching customers) only could bring the 744 about two years later into service than originally planed. Therefore I
46 Scaledesigns : Well if they dont it will be the first major non military Airbus type LH didnt order! Since the A350 design has not even really started yet it will ta
47 Post contains images LTU932 : There is one model LH never ordered: the A318.
48 Aerosol : No a318 / no A345
49 Shenzhen : One shouldn't always believe everything they read. LH were one of the first airlines to operate the 747-400 airplanes. They may have been the first t
50 Columba : Really ? I would have thought these kind of issues would have been solved already with the -300 and would not appear on the -400.
51 Shenzhen : Actually, I think he is referring to the -200. which had significant modifications to the upper deck (Section 41 Mod, as it was called) around the ti
52 Post contains images Stitch : Yet AC was operating ULR flights with A345s and wished to operate more. Since they only had two A345s in their fleet, deciding to replace them for 77
53 Scaledesigns : Key word was "major" type.Those a/c are the same major type family as the A320,A321,A319 and they operate the A340 family. The only one they dont plan
54 EDDB : Cargo's CEO was kind of doing some wishful thinking (and I quote a leading LH manager here), cause LH wants Cargo to generate nice profit first befor
55 Post contains images USAF336TFS : I agree with you, but they've also been talking seriously about the pros and cons of ordering this year versus waiting until next year, when the prof
56 Columba : That is the important reason. AF/KLM just has ordered 777F and is taking delivery of 747-400Fs, Cargolux is getting the 747-8F also Asian carriers ar
57 Post contains images Glideslope : ROFLOL. You obviously mean their first 380 in Spring 09.   [Edited 2006-09-27 22:31:47]
58 Post contains images Glideslope : Right. No other AC has experienced the mind boggling issues of the A380. A series of Root Canals followed by reconstructive implants would be more ap
59 Post contains links and images Keesje : A lot, sleek bigger bins, floorbox stowages (upperdeck) new fresh lavatories, mini bars, steam ovens & capucino machines in the galleys, skyloft faci
60 Post contains images EDDB : Why do you think my girlfriend just got a new amendment to her A34X papers from LH for the remaining A346 WITH first class configuration?
61 Jfk777 : I hope Lufthansa does something different, go Boeing. 787's would be great for LH in so many ways. 747-8 would be agreat fit between the A380 and a 78
62 Columba : That is why it is said that LH is one of the airlines that demanded a longer version of the 747-8I. The A340-600 seats around 306 passengers (have no
63 JoFMO : I don't expect LH pressing 555 seat in their A380. As you said they have 306 seats on their 346, although Airbus says that it can seat 380 passengers
64 EDDB : It's 345, so... corrected. At least the ones delivered up to now! The rest will get first class too... They did? I thought they wanted something that
65 Drewfly : As has been stated in this thread and others, Mayrhubers is trying to get the best deal possible, hence why he mentions all of the candidate aircraft
66 Post contains images Johnny : @NAV20 "One of the more memorable newsletter comments of the 'Demon King', aka Richard Aboulafia, back in January 2004, was, "Anyone without a 777 is
67 Zvezda : C. The negotiations are proceeding to Mayrhuber's satisfaction.
68 Zeke : IMHO the 777F is the best MD11F replacement for cargo.
69 A342 : As EDDB noted, the 7 new A346s will have F. And I have just one question for you. How many Caribbean destination does LH serve ? To make it easier fo
70 Gigneil : What? What the hell else was he supposed to say? N
71 Post contains images USAF336TFS : again... This is the most likely possibilty, IMHO.
72 Leelaw : IMO, something along the lines of the comments Tim Clark of EK offered in response to news of more delays would have been more meaningful and useful:
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