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New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4135 posts, RR: 90
Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 31519 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

If the following report is correct EADS will outline the revised A380 delivery schedule tomorrow thus avoiding the 4 week delay reported previously

Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS will unveil the new calendar for deliveries of its A380 superjumbo and details of the financial impact of the delays as early as tomorrow instead of in four weeks as it said previously, La Tribune reported, citing unidentified company officials.

Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.


http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=c...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a3Z9PbJehdMY

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
156 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31436 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
If the following report is correct EADS will outline the revised A380 delivery schedule tomorrow thus avoiding the 4 week delay reported previously

Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS will unveil the new calendar for deliveries of its A380 superjumbo and details of the financial impact of the delays as early as tomorrow instead of in four weeks as it said previously, La Tribune reported, citing unidentified company officials.

Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=c...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a3Z9PbJehdMY

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Interesting article PanAm_DC10. Thank you for sharing. Hopefully the revised delivery dates will be last of the numerous delays that we have seen.

It will be also interesting to see if the delays will be another 6 months like many have speculated.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6747 posts, RR: 77
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31395 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.

"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineScotland1979 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 548 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31377 times:
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300 miles of wiring.. that is long to put inside A380. It takes forever to put


Jesus said "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31329 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?

That is what's been speculated about a lot in the press here these past days - relocating everything that was A380-relevant to Toulouse.

Makes sense, in my opinion.

That, of course, leaves the question: with the runway at Finkenwerder being expanded because of the A380... will that runway enlargement still go forward (after all, some work has already been done there), or will the runway stay as it is, since it's sufficient for the A318s, A319s and A321s that are built there?



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31309 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
It will be also interesting to see if the delays will be another 6 months like many have speculated.

Who has speculated that? Well in any case, let's see what tomorrow brings...


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6747 posts, RR: 77
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 31265 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):

That is what's been speculated about a lot in the press here these past days - relocating everything that was A380-relevant to Toulouse.

Interesting - while flying around in Down Under I haven't really followed the German media in the past days...

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
That, of course, leaves the question: with the runway at Finkenwerder being expanded because of the A380... will that runway enlargement still go forward (after all, some work has already been done there), or will the runway stay as it is, since it's sufficient for the A318s, A319s and A321s that are built there?

Most likely many opponents of the project will now raise their voice again.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 31222 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
Interesting - while flying around in Down Under I haven't really followed the German media in the past days...

I know...  Smile ... it was clear to me that you wouldn't have missed it if you'd have been at home...  Wink

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
Most likely many opponents of the project will now raise their voice again.

I'm quite certain of that - after all, they never really did fully quiet down, and as soon as they get this bit of news, we can expect demonstrations and the next round of legal proceedings to begin.

Quoting Joni (Reply 5):
Who has speculated that? Well in any case, let's see what tomorrow brings...

That was what some here on a.net speculated... and you're right - let's see what tomorrow brings, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that the delay is small... but I'm especially hopeful that this will now finally be the last announced delay, and that Airbus will manage to stay within that schedule. It's bad enough that they've had the amount of delays that they've already accumulated (including the one to be announced, possibly, tomorrow), they really need to get their act together... and fast.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineEDDB From Germany, joined Aug 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 31026 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
That is what's been speculated about a lot in the press here these past days - relocating everything that was A380-relevant to Toulouse.

And in exchange moving A320 to HAM, at least that's what the HANDELSBLATT says...

IMO this would have been the best solution from the beginning on!


User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 30958 times:

Is Airbus obligated to manufacture a certain percentage of the A380 in Hamburg due to launch aid provided by the German government? I thought part of the premise of launch aid was to secure jobs for particular regions.

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 30925 times:

Quoting EDDB (Reply 8):

And in exchange moving A320 to HAM, at least that's what the HANDELSBLATT says...

IMO this would have been the best solution from the beginning on!

If true this would make alot of sense.

France: A330/A340/A350/A380
Germany: A318/319/320/321 and future A320NG
Spain: A400M

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 30890 times:

Wouldn't moving the fuselage fabrication, as well as the cabin installation operations from XFW to TLS involve considerable time and expense? Would additional facilities need to be constructed at TLS to accomodate such a draconian change in the production scheme?

[Edited 2006-09-28 14:10:58]

User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 30866 times:

Looks as though the A380 Break Even number just went up even more . The mammoth A380 project is resulting in Airbus to neglect all other programs !

 scared 

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=c...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a3Z9PbJehdMY

Cost overruns related to the delays may amount to $1.68 billion for the 168 orders and expressed intentions to buy the aircraft over the 2007 to 2010 period, La Tribune said, citing a report by Goldman Sachs. Overall, the delays in the A380, A350 and A400M aircraft could cost Airbus's parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. 4.3 billion euros ($5.5 billion), the newspaper said, citing the report.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.

"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?

We'll see ?

Hhhmm  scratchchin 

A380 Production Could Be Moved Outside Europe! (by Halibut Sep 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Halibut


User currently offlineEDDB From Germany, joined Aug 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 30787 times:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 9):


Is Airbus obligated to manufacture a certain percentage of the A380 in Hamburg due to launch aid provided by the German government? I thought part of the premise of launch aid was to secure jobs for particular regions.

This is indeed a (political) problem to be sorted out...


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 30684 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?

That is how I read it. I don't see any other possible meaning. I wondered whether or not that would be a permanent change.

Quoting Scotland1979 (Reply 3):
300 miles of wiring.. that is long to put inside A380. It takes forever to put

It seems to be taking longer than that because of the iterative nature of the process: design, model, test on the bench (maybe go back to step 1), install, test inflight, go back to step 1, repeat.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
That, of course, leaves the question: with the runway at Finkenwerder being expanded because of the A380... will that runway enlargement still go forward (after all, some work has already been done there), or will the runway stay as it is, since it's sufficient for the A318s, A319s and A321s that are built there?

Good question. I've flown in and out of XFW 5 times and always found it uncomfortable to see how many cars had to stop and wait while we taxied across the road.

Quoting Joni (Reply 5):
Who has speculated that? Well in any case, let's see what tomorrow brings...

That seems to just be idle A.net speculation based on the past delays of 2 months, then 6 months, then 7 months. The fourth delay could be 2 months, 6 months, or some other period. There is little point in speculating with an announcement expected tomorrow.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 30591 times:

Maybe as compensation of losing A380 work, Hamburg is given the A350 production? EADS will have to flexible with the production sites.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 30511 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
The fourth delay could be 2 months, 6 months, or some other period.

It is probably already impossible to describe the delays in terms of a given number of months. After all, we are not looking at a mere delay until first delivery, after which 'normal service will be resumed'; there is a 'double hit', not only will the first delivery be later than planned, but, as already admitted by Airbus, future production and delivery rates will be lower than planned for at least the first three years.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 30425 times:

I trully hope they don't have that ceremonial delivery for the first one. that is an entirely stupid idea and would make SQ look like idiots. It'll be interesting to see the length of the newest delay and the financial impact.

At this point I think there will only be one minor cancellation (MAS) but that would be it. If there are more delays after this one then many of the customers will be asking if this is worth it.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 30407 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
I wondered whether or not that would be a permanent change.

Is it feasible to "temporarily" fabricate fuselage sections at TLS which are currently being manufactured at XFW?


User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 30372 times:

Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
Cost overruns related to the delays may amount to $1.68 billion for the 168 orders and expressed intentions to buy the aircraft over the 2007 to 2010 period, La Tribune said, citing a report by Goldman Sachs. Overall, the delays in the A380, A350 and A400M aircraft could cost Airbus's parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. 4.3 billion euros ($5.5 billion), the newspaper said, citing the report.

This is what caught my eye as well. These estimates are getting ever larger, and certainly must become a constraint in Airbus's plans. The Goldman Sachs report was published yesterday...I'm wondering if any A.Netter might have access to it or provide a link?



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 30332 times:

Wow, thats a lot of cash drain to spread out over maybe 300 frames.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9623 posts, RR: 68
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 30200 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

An extra $10,000,000 per frame cost? On top of all the other overruns?

User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 29917 times:

Quote:
Airline executives have publicly voiced frustration at their inability to plan schedules and related investments because they lack information about A380 deliveries. Airbus officials have been meeting this week with airline executives to discuss the A380 situation, but carriers haven't said that they had received firm new delivery dates from Airbus.

In the absence of solid news, and following last week's warning by EADS, rumors have been swirling in aviation circles. Industry officials say that the longer EADS and Airbus let the current information vacuum continue, the more difficult their situation will become.

A senior executive at a major A380 customer said Thursday his airline still hadn't received a revised delivery timetable but only "tentative suggestions." He spoke on the condition of anonymity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...928-710581.html?mod=moj_industries


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 29861 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 22):
A senior executive at a major A380 customer said Thursday his airline still hadn't received a revised delivery timetable but only "tentative suggestions." He spoke on the condition of anonymity

Sounds like the airline is either SQ or EK. This is not good!! "Tentative suggestions" What the hell does that mean. If this keeps up then some airlines will cancel orders and other will buy Boeing to show displeasure at the situation. Specifically, Emirates is looking to buy 100 787s or A350s. The longer this situation persists, the more likely that this order will go to Boeing. Not that EK will be getting an inferior airplane. On the contrary it just makes EKs decision about potentially buying the 787 that much more easier.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineEDDB From Germany, joined Aug 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 29803 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 23):
Specifically, Emirates is looking to buy 100 787s or A350s. The longer this situation persists, the more likely that this order will go to Boeing. Not that EK will be getting an inferior airplane. On the contrary it just makes EKs decision about potentially buying the 787 that much more easier.

Why? Because being pissed is what drives the airline industrie? I thought is was money but I could be wrong...  Wink

(I hope you get my point, that it is quite nice at the moment for customers to negotiate deals with Airbus...)


25 NYC777 : Everyone has their limits. The customer have their limits (with delays) and so does the OEM (with how much compensation they're willing to pay and dis
26 Ikramerica : Well obviously trucking and shipping giant fuselage parts around Europe wasn't the best answer, but it was an impressive answer, and the whole progra
27 Pygmalion : Most suppliers know that pissed off customers typically take their business elsewhere. Maybe not today... but certainly the next time Airbus shows up
28 Leskova : If you're asking whether EU citizens can work in other EU countries without problems then, yes, this is possible (I'm doing just that, living and wor
29 Post contains images EDDB : First of all, I think we don't talk about 12-year-olds but about experienced airline CEOs, so 'getting even more mad' or whatever is not what I would
30 Stitch : Does HAM build any part of the A380? Or are they purely an interior configuration integrator? And if the latter, why yank them? Even though they muff
31 Leskova : To be honest... I'd be seriously worried about LH if it were any different!!!
32 Ikramerica : Thanks for the info. So if Airbus offers all current German workers the opportunity to continue to work on the A380 in Toulouse, then it might go a l
33 NYC777 : The order book speaks for itself, doesn't it?
34 Ikramerica : I was wondering that, too. If all A380 work is moved to Toulouse, does that mean any other A380 work done in Germany moves there too?
35 Leelaw : Per Airbus A380 Navigator: ...For the A380 Hamburg manufactures the front and rear fuselage sections. Following the aircraft's assembly in Toulouse,
36 EDDB : Not again.... I seems we two can't agree on comparing numbers that ARE comparable! How do you want to compare an aircraft program that was launched n
37 Leskova : You mean the orderbook of a plane launched in 2004 compared to a plane which is expected to be launched (at which point it's manufacturer can officia
38 Barbarian : Germany = FAF = Forward and Aft Fuselage France = NCF = Nose and Centre Fuselage I dont believe that Hamburg has a problem physically producing the fu
39 Flysherwood : I believe the number is $ 100,000,000.00 per frame!!! Cash flow, cash flow and cash flow is the sacred cow of any business big or small. How they are
40 Hb88 : ahem... haven't you forgotten something? The UK. (little things like wings, fuel systems, landing hear...) In any case, your proposed outline of the
41 EDDB : Nice calculation, but you are aware that they're talking about A380, A350 and A400M costs (which makes me wonder how they get the numbers for the lat
42 Zvezda : That's how it works in theory, but the reality can be different. Lithuanian citizens are free to live and work in the UK, Ireland, and Sweden, but no
43 A342 : I guess he meant just final assembly of the aircraft. I also believe the A320 should have been moved to XFW, with the A380 painting and interior outf
44 Post contains images TeamAmerica : It's $10million, which is plenty. Again, does anyone have access to the actual Goldman Sachs report? I'm a junkie, and I need a fix.
45 Leelaw : I find it odd that the optimal solution to the delays plaguing the A380 program at this late stage of the "industrialization" process is to physicall
46 Post contains links Katekebo : http://www.todayonline.com/articles/145528.asp The part about major job cuts called my attention. How is Airbus expecting to support the delivery of t
47 Zvezda : In my opinion, it would be better to cancel the WhaleJet and get the A350, A320E, and NSR right.
48 Post contains images Brendows : They past that point a long time ago, I guess you know that too Zvezda But yes, getting the projects you mention right is far more important now, the
49 Katekebo : I don't think this is even an option. What would be the financial compensation for the 159 orders already in place? I don't think Airbus/EADS has eno
50 EbbUK : for prestige sake, expect it to be done. quickly Chirac to pay, seeing as his lacky got Airbus into this mess I thought that of course it's legal, wh
51 Post contains links BoomBoom : http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060928...rancegermanyaerospace_060928195214
52 Hb88 : Uh, maybe I'm missing something, but have you noticed where the various manufacturers of the 787 are located? Or is such a widespread logistic net se
53 Ken777 : I recall reading (about the time the newest version of the 350 was announced) that the 350 XWB would be assembled in Germany. At the time (and also t
54 Hb88 : Well, we like to think the wings are quite important...
55 EbbUK : You know how I typed a very similar post to yours only mine was peppered with words that would have banned me for life. I paused, and decided to agre
56 Post contains links and images BoomBoom : Boeing openly acknowledges that the 747 LCF and the 787 “global logistics” plan was conceptually inspired by the Airbus transportation system. ht
57 Ikramerica : First, both of you are classic. Second, I agree with your point. Flying large fuselage and wing sections around the world is just as risky an endeavo
58 Zvezda : The consequences of cancelling the WhaleJet now would be severe. Mind you, I'm obviously not suggesting that Airbus not delivery any WhaleJets. I'm s
59 Glideslope : Very likely IMO. The sooner the better, IMO.
60 Post contains images Glideslope : You said it.
61 TeamAmerica : Well, we're getting a bit pessimistic here, to be sure. It remains possible that Airbus could decide to go forward with the A330+ incarnation of the
62 Post contains images Beech19 : 300 seems optimistic at this point. That could hurt... I agree for the most part. The only problem is then you have to roll the $15bil into those fut
63 Post contains images Stitch : Do you honestly believe that such a decision would convince anyone other then SQ and EY, who have flying frames, to keep their orders? Would SQ and L
64 Zvezda : Probably. They can either be flown profitably or they can't. That doesn't depend on how many may or may not be produced in the future. Think Concorde
65 Stitch : Concorde provided speed far beyond anything else available to the consumer. Enough people valued time over money to make the plane workable. Unless t
66 Anax : indeed Stitch , but try to get 5 new slots in LHR , or NRT , or JFK , or ORD.......
67 Post contains images Astuteman : A perfect summation, Katekebo. There is no choice. (Plagarising) V1 has long-since passed. All they've got to do now is find someone who "wishes" to
68 Post contains images WINGS : No Hb88, I was referring to the final assembly. Which currently only takes place in France, Germany and Spain. It sure is one of the most, if not the
69 Joni : I'm not quite following your train of though here. The A380 will have more space per passenger, and lower cost - those allow the airlines to offer be
70 Post contains links Leelaw : Flight International, 29 September 2006: Airbus to release Streiff's business review findings 'within days' Airbus could release the details of the ex
71 Jdevora : Then... I don't see the point... The delays are NOW and if you suggest to build those 50-100 frames they need to spend the same resources for get the
72 DeltaDC9 : How will this solve anything? WTF????
73 Zvezda : The big cost to Airbus of continuing on their current course is not just engineering costs; the big cost is the potentially fatal distraction of mana
74 PanAm_DC10 : I believe this is in specific reference to the A380 and not their entire product line. Regards, PanAm_DC10
75 Hb88 : [snip] No. I am very well aware of the respective sizes of the A380 and the 787. I'm not quite sure what you're really objecting to here and I defini
76 Post contains links DAYflyer : The board of EADS has adjurned without a decision. Fair use: EADS Board Ends Airbus A380 Meeting Friday September 29, 1:00 pm ET EADS Board Ends Airbu
77 Post contains links BoomBoom : Is this "made up" too? http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aSGkIYVa9IZk
78 Post contains images Clickhappy : Wow. "...in the near future." Airbus needs to get their shit together. They are starting to look like Boeing in the mid to late 90s I was just reading
79 Hb88 : Of course not. I assumed you would understand the type of a.net-generated opinion/comment I was referring to.
80 Mham001 : Nothing like a little urgency.
81 Clickhappy : Just thinking out loud here, I wonder if the EADS powers-that-be need to dicsuss certain things with the politcal supporters of Airbus. This whole sag
82 Hb88 : This is quite surprising. I speculate that the statement from EADS may have had a bit of translation slant to it. I very very much doubt that custome
83 Scaledesigns : "Only cost Airbus 5.5 billion in cost overruns"................ I thought they spent almost that much on the 1st A350 in development costs alone?
84 Ken777 : Ouch! I think a lot of airlines were looking for the Board to get things organized and let them know something they could depend on. I would now expec
85 BoomBoom : Could you cite some examples of this "made up stuff"?
86 Leelaw : Airbus, planned to spend $5.5B on the development of the "old all-new A350" if it had gone forward. A relatively small fraction of that amount has ac
87 EDDB : You forgot the 'not' after probably... Fleet size does not have an effect on profitability? 'They can be flown profitably or they can't.' ???? Not lo
88 Exarmywarrant : So, It's the 29th... Where's the announcement???
89 Hb88 : Oh dear. Here we go again. To save in-post bickering, just have a look through any standard AvB thread and look for things such as the great Airbus a
90 Exarmywarrant : Sounds like politics...
91 Art : I don't agree at all. I think that more management time would be required for a complete change of tack than to carry on with the program. Your propo
92 Ikramerica : So, you admit problems up and down the manufacturing process, and all indications point to a structural breakdown in the system, from language to sys
93 BoomBoom : I just know shoddy and ill-informed opinion when I see it.
94 Post contains images TeamAmerica : And....no report? Another 4 weeks of A.Net speculations - can we stand the suspense?
95 Post contains images EDDB : Oh boy, that's word by word what comes to my mind from time to time....
96 Scorpio : I'm sorry, but that doesn't make ANY sense. At all. After all the wiring and thus production problems are solved, why on earth would you cancel the t
97 Hb88 : Well, you'll have no problem finding some examples then! Sorry if I wasn't clear. My point was that I don't think the cause of the delay has anything
98 Hb88 : I agree, it makes utterly no sense. "management distraction"? It's not as if the A350, NSR, A400M etc people sit around all day wringing their hands
99 EbbUK : And your subsequent responses hence, I thought were masterly, precisely weighted and measured in the face of some truly baffling opines esp from the
100 Post contains images BoomBoom : You obviously aren't amenable to anything other than examples and facts that agree with your opinions. Oh, and remember the spell checker... Repected
101 Post contains images Halibut : Really Scorpio ! A dozen or so Halibut Pickle threads in 4 months . With respect Scorpio , the A380 project has already severely effected Airbus's ne
102 OldAeroGuy : Well, the Bloomberg article gets to the nub of the situation. The delays were/are caused primarily by a breakdown of internal Airbus processes, not b
103 EbbUK : No it isn't. What it is exactly, in this case, is Respected, mis spelt. You remember that
104 Leelaw : Ironically, the transformation of Airbus from a "looser" consortium structure into the "Airbus Integrated Company" (Airbus SAS) in 2001, has so far f
105 Post contains links Osiris30 : Appologies if a repost: Etihad to get clear delivery schedule of A380s http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA..._September974.xml§ion=business
106 NAV20 : I think that the problem is that it is abundantly clear that they have NOT YET been solved. So the key questions are:- 1. CAN they be solved? 2. IF t
107 Post contains images BoomBoom : You mean it wasn't REALLY the customers fault after all?
108 Post contains images Hb88 : Thanks. Sometimes it feels like a lonely position taking the more ardent Boeing obsessives to task, but to me the most baffling thing is the weirdly
109 Art : Good question. EADS is set up to protect the interests of the nations involved, rather than the company itself. Your question illustrates the structu
110 Zvezda : To me the baffling part is that you attack pro-Airbus people who constructively criticize mistakes made by Airbus and insist that everyone pretend th
111 Scorpio : I'm sorry, but have you even read what Zvezda is suggesting? He suggest Airbus STILL solves the problems with A380 production and THEN kills it. And
112 Zvezda : It appears that you didn't read my suggestion.
113 EDDB : I think scorpio read quite well.... Or in which way do we misinterpret you're suggestion...?
114 Zvezda : The misrepresentation that cancellation be after production. That would fail to achieve the critical effect of releasing senior management from the d
115 Scorpio : What suggestion is that? The one where you said Airbus should sort out the wiring issues, then build 50 - 100 of them, and then kill it? Oh I read th
116 Scorpio : Any idea how much management time would be needed to cancel a program this size? To reach settlements with all the airlines that ordered? To deal wit
117 Zvezda : No need. You clearly didn't read my suggestion.
118 EDDB : I still don't get it... Terribly sorry... So what would you do now exactly? Deliver 50-100 and then wind down production? In this case you still need
119 Post contains images Alessandro : Well, the airlines that have ordered it aren´t exactly on the ropes, like once mighty Eastern Airlines or PanAm once was, but national airlines which
120 Scorpio : Quit the condescending attitude buddy. I read your suggestion just fine. Tell me, just which of all the things I named would NOT need to happen under
121 Post contains images Zvezda : You call me "buddy" and accuse me of condescension in the same sentence. You misrepresented the sequence.
122 Scorpio : You bet I did. I tend to answer fire with fire. LOL! So wait, let's see if I get this straight: you want them to first deal with all these things and
123 Hb88 : Crikey Zvezda, you're on a roll! Er, no actually. I just post when I see the most inane bulls*hit being spouted. Otherwise, I just read and read and r
124 Osiris30 : Hb88: Since you work for A, let me ask you something (without divulging company secrets): Doesn't the apparent disarray of senior managment make you m
125 Elvis777 : Howdy all, Allow me to give this a go. I think Scorpio et al are a bit upset without really needing to be. The troubles with the whalejet are clear no
126 Scorpio : The only reason why I am 'upset' (though that's a big word) is because I believe Zvezda's solution to be completely idiotic, and one that will never
127 Post contains images EDDB : Gee... so much brain work for the simple bottom line 'I'm happy that Airbus got problems!' Don't you think?
128 AirFrnt : With all due respect PH, Rightfully so. I disagree with Zvedza's argument for cancellation. Airbus made this bed a long time ago. It's a ultra king s
129 Ikramerica : But that's only YOUR opinion, so I guess your opinion counts and nobody else's does. The news seems to support the political football argument for th
130 Osiris30 : I think that where the disagreement comes from. Not that you disagree on the soultion, but rather you chose the word ridiculous to describe one of th
131 Post contains images EDDB : Clearly not, since I would have started at the age of 2 then, although... My grandma always tells me about my first flight at the age of 3 and how my
132 Art : Yes. It came in over design weight. The wake is worse than expected. The wiring needs a lot of attention. The wiring issue is taking up a lot of mana
133 Elvis777 : Hi scorpio, perhaps you are right, it may be a ridiculous suggestion. But perhaps a disinterested party , i.e one that is not married to the plane but
134 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Zvezda backs up his arguments with valid points.......something which many people (including analsysts agree on)....it doesn't have to be "neutral" i
135 Post contains images Osiris30 : Ty Jacobin777. Been a lurker for a while. Actually delurked and broke down and registered to support the GOL crash thread FYI: Home base is CYHM alth
136 RJ111 : Can we please drop the A380 cancellation "debate" now. In my quite humble opinion it is ridiculous, and i think people need to stop playing Devil's Ad
137 Elvis777 : RJ111, I wanna be an arbiter of what is discussed here on A.net too! Where do I apply? If you dont care for the discussion, dont participate! Lots of
138 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Interesting..thanks for the info!
139 Post contains images Osiris30 : Here's the problem with the word: Ridiculous: adj - causing or worthy of ridicule or derision. By all admissions there are risks to both sides. While
140 RJ111 : Sorry to sound overbearing, but i just feel that possibility is being over analysed to such an extent the viability is being completely overlooked. An
141 Elvis777 : Howdy RJ111, No worries! I have yet to become an ariber of a.net discussions.. SO I cant compel people to listen to my suggestions (although that pete
142 Post contains images Iwok : Unfortunately, I think some form of cancellation is a distinct possibility. Perhapse existing orders are fullfilled, and then the program is halted?
143 Leelaw : Mr. Streiff was nominated as the new President & CEO of Airbus upon the resignation of Dr. Humbert on July 2nd, and was confirmed by the Airbus Share
144 Hb88 : Fair questions. Of course, I don't speak for Airbus, but... The keyword here is "apparent". Of course any lack of management coherence makes me unhap
145 EbbUK : If I could bear children, I would want yours. You write so well. Seeing as I can't, you have my respect, as you already know.
146 Art : The guys who make the things think there is a market. A, B, RR think there is a market. B not so long ago RAISED its estimate of VLA sales up to 2025
147 Post contains images Elvis777 : Hi HB88, I too appreciate the way you write, although not to the extent that EBBUK does! anyways a couple of friendly questions: Fair enough. By this
148 Post contains images Osiris30 : Hb88: First of all thanks for taking the time for a well thought out response and not just dropping a flaming pile of 'screw off' on my head No onto t
149 Elvis777 : Hi Osiris! seems we are going down the same path, perhaps unbeknown to either one of us.. Although I think your way is more eloquent and concise... Pe
150 Post contains images Hb88 : ugh, I seem to be quoting myself too much lately! Anyway... Hm. I don't know about not liking working together. I see plenty of work being done with D
151 Glacote : I just want to mark this thread for posterity. Turning a non-event (Airbus does not announce anything on friday Sept. 29th although the press had "gue
152 Elvis777 : Hi Hb88, Thanks for the kind response. Peace Elvis777
153 Post contains images Osiris30 : Well my 5 year time-frame was project start for a leapfrogger with a finish about 10 years out. I don't expect the 380 would stand still, but to real
154 Post contains links Leelaw : From Geoff Thomas at ATW: Key customers were to be notified over the weekend of the full extent of the latest delivery delay for the A380. Two custome
155 Post contains links Leelaw : Virgin Atlantic Gets News On Airbus Superjumbo Delays PARIS (AP)--Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. said Monday it received tentative information on the le
156 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : The Board of EADS is to meet via video conference today or tomorrow now but the following report from La Tribune does not bode well as it talks of on
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