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DL/NW Skyteam Question?  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

Yesterday my meeting was running late, and I couldn't make the last NW flight from CVG back to DTW. DL has a later flight, so I called NW and asked them to rebook it. NW Elite Services said they could not book the Comair flight.

I called Delta, and they said I would have to purchase a New ticket, and get a refund from NW.

NW itself has protected me on a Comair flight from DTW to CVG in the past, but I suspect the situation was different as it was a NW cancellation.

According to NWA.COM the list as partners:

All Delta, Delta Shuttle and Delta Connection-operated flights.

So, why couldn't NW/DL accommodate me in a rational way? Oh wait I know, it's the airlines!!!

What happened to seamless transportation?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3596 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

DL just said that you need to buy a ticket. In the other cases, NW was buying you a refundable ticket as "protection". I am sure that NW would have sold you a DL ticket if you would have asked, but I am assuming the DL ticket was more expensive than the NW ticket and as such, a simple assignment of the ticket from NW to DL would not work for DL.

More info such as fare classes and price of tickets would be helpful, but in any case, I don't think it unreasonable that an airline would want you to have one of their tickets in order to fly on one of their planes.

Cheers


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
More info such as fare classes and price of tickets would be helpful, but in any case, I don't think it unreasonable that an airline would want you to have one of their tickets in order to fly on one of their planes.

Cheers

Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was a "B" fare.

Original fare:

Base Fare: USD714.42 Tax:14.00

Tax:53.58 Tax:6.60 E-Ticket Total: USD788.60


Fare Calculation: 4 DTT NW LEX371.16/-CVG NW DTT 343.26USD714.42END NW ZPDTWCVG XT5.00AY9.00XF DTW4.5CVG4.5


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3596 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

At that rate, NW should have printed you a ticket and endorsed it over or e-ticketed you directly onto DL. (DL's OW same day fare is $379.30 including tax).

NW can book DL flights, so I think the problem was the NW "elite" agent that said it was not possible.

I would send a little note to NW about it when you get your refund.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Thanks DLPMMM. I will send NW a note.


The point really is, the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

This does not appear to be the truth when it comes down to it.

I don't get it? What part of the programme am I missing.
Shouldn't I have been able to rebook with one phone call between Skyteam members?


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
So, why couldn't NW/DL accommodate me in a rational way? Oh wait I know, it's the airlines!!!



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
Yesterday my meeting was running late, and I couldn't make the last NW flight from CVG back to DTW.

You just answered your own question.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
The point really is, the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

Not if you miss your own flight. It's not just one big airline. It's two seperate companies.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 5):
Not if you miss your own flight. It's not just one big airline. It's two seperate companies

I didn't miss my flight, I called hours in advance to rebook.

But that still doesn't clarify it for me.

What part of Alliance am I missing?


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
What part of Alliance am I missing?

Doesn't matter...it was a voluntary change...and no partner is obligated to put you on any other partner in that situation....in effect, you missed (didn't take) your own flight.

No where on the SkyTeam, or any other alliance website does it say the airlines are interchangable on a whim. I can't book a CO flight on their website, then call up CO res and say 'Hey put me on Delta instead'...They have to hand that money over to Delta, which isn't going to happen if it wasn't something w/in CO's control.

An alliance works when it's booked as a codeshare, for FF tickets, or in irop situations.

Unless it's a codeshare, if you book on NW, you go on NW.


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 994 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

Yeah, just like they love to advertise how simple it is to fly anywhere in the world on frequent flyer miles, until you try to use them.

Not since the fall of the Byzantine empire has mankind been able to erect a more complex, convoluted, unfair, absurd way of doing business.

Caveat emptor!



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 7):
Doesn't matter...it was a voluntary change...and no partner is obligated to put you on any other partner in that situation....in effect, you missed (didn't take) your own flight.

No where on the SkyTeam, or any other alliance website does it say the airlines are interchangable on a whim. I can't book a CO flight on their website, then call up CO res and say 'Hey put me on Delta instead'...They have to hand that money over to Delta, which isn't going to happen if it wasn't something w/in CO's control.

An alliance works when it's booked as a codeshare, for FF tickets, or in irop situations.

Unless it's a codeshare, if you book on NW, you go on NW.

So, long story short, airline alliances are BS.

They have the ability to rebook me on DL at their whim due to an irop: 25AUG2006 DL 5567 DL 5567 Y/Y DTW - CVG, as they did when my NW flight was cxld, and I got Worldperk Miles for it, but when I as a passenger need to change my plans I'm S.O.O.L.!


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 8):
Yeah, just like they love to advertise how simple it is to fly anywhere in the world on frequent flyer miles, until you try to use them.

Not since the fall of the Byzantine empire has mankind been able to erect a more complex, convoluted, unfair, absurd way of doing business.

Caveat emptor!

No, it's pretty simple, I can understand how it might be complicated for people like you tho.

But as usual, I expect you just to troll and never come back to back up any of your claims.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
So, long story short, airline alliances are BS.

No they're not, sorry. I don't know how you came up with the idea that you can just jump from airline to airline whenever you want. If you can show me where on the SkyTeam website it says you can do that, I'll agree with you.

Long story short, you're mad at DL / NW / SkyTeam because you asked for something that couldn't be done, and they didn't do it.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 10):
No they're not, sorry. I don't know how you came up with the idea that you can just jump from airline to airline whenever you want. If you can show me where on the SkyTeam website it says you can do that, I'll agree with you.

Long story short, you're mad at DL / NW / SkyTeam because you asked for something that couldn't be done, and they didn't do it.

I'm not mad, just trying to figure out the logic, so I don't have problems.

BTW...when you quote someone, don't cherry pick it, it's somewhat rude.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 10):
If you can show me where on the SkyTeam website it says you can do that

"As a world traveler, you want flexibility and more choices for your international travel.

With our 10 member airlines and 14,615 daily flights to 728 destinations in 149 countries, SkyTeam makes life easier for frequent business travelers."


"You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

http://www.skyteam.com/EN/index.jsp


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
So, long story short, airline alliances are BS.

They have the ability to rebook me on DL at their whim due to an irop: 25AUG2006 DL 5567 DL 5567 Y/Y DTW - CVG, as they did when my NW flight was cxld, and I got Worldperk Miles for it, but when I as a passenger need to change my plans I'm S.O.O.L.!

Well I wouldn't characterize them always that way but in your case sort of. You needed to make a change due to you running late and NW didn't want to give up their cash flow by giving it to Delta despite them being partners. They don't codeshare on every flight and that is what you ran up against. I flew CO home from EWR last week because DL's last flight was leaving about the time my SQ flight was landing. Unfortunately DL didn't codeshare on the later CO flights so I had to purchase a separate CO ticket.

In the long run perhaps it would do them a good job to do so since you wouldn't be on here fussing about it but rather praising them for taking care of you. Of course you've already stated that airline rules and business decisions don't make a lot of sense and this is yet another example of that belief.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Skyteam is BY FAR the least integrated of the three major alliances. I can't put my w/p number in at delta.com. I can't get boarding passes from a DL agent for NW- or CO- operated flights. I could go on. NW/CO/KL is pretty seamless, as is DL/AF, but beyond that, it's anybody's guess.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2408 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
They have the ability to rebook me on DL at their whim due to an irop: 25AUG2006 DL 5567 DL 5567 Y/Y DTW - CVG, as they did when my NW flight was cxld, and I got Worldperk Miles for it, but when I as a passenger need to change my plans I'm S.O.O.L.!

Partially true. They want to make it convenient as possible, but they are going to go out of their way to keep the money you have already spent. Good business practice for them. Sucks to be you.

But, I get even with them when booking flights. i check NW, DL and CO a lot of times for the same route and come up with the cheapest ticket and take that. I often fly on NW with a so-called DL ticket for hundreds cheaper.....

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
I can't get boarding passes from a DL agent for NW- or CO- operated flights.

This has never been a problem with me since I have no reason to go to DL or CO if I am heading to the NW gate even though, as mentioned above, I am flying NW. Makes more sense to me to check in on the airline I am flying. But, I understand how you might want to do it differently.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 13):
I flew CO home from EWR last week because DL's last flight was leaving about the time my SQ flight was landing. Unfortunately DL didn't codeshare on the later CO flights so I had to purchase a separate CO ticket.

And you did a great trip report about it that I enjoyed very much!  Smile


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 15):
This has never been a problem with me since I have no reason to go to DL or CO if I am heading to the NW gate even though, as mentioned above, I am flying NW. Makes more sense to me to check in on the airline I am flying. But, I understand how you might want to do it differently.

No, DL won't give you boarding passes when your travel starts with DL and downline segments are on CO or NW.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2884 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
No, DL won't give you boarding passes when your travel starts with DL and downline segments are on CO or NW.

Yes, they will. You're checked in the whole way by the org. carrier on a codeshare tkt.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):
"As a world traveler, you want flexibility and more choices for your international travel.

With our 10 member airlines and 14,615 daily flights to 728 destinations in 149 countries, SkyTeam makes life easier for frequent business travelers."


"You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

That doesn't say you can jump from carrier to carrier whenever you want. That's not part of the deal.

You didn't buy a tkt on SkyTeam, you bought a ticket on NW. You're asking for something that can't be done, end of story.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
Yes, they will. You're checked in the whole way by the org. carrier on a codeshare tkt.

I've had trouble in both SCL and ATL. It was a NW segment once and a CO segment the other time.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You didn't buy a tkt on SkyTeam, you bought a ticket on NW. You're asking for something that can't be done, end of story.

My my my, you are a little testy this morning.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

What does this mean then?

When I pay $800 every week to fly between DTW and LEX or CVG, I think they can stretch the rules, don't you?


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You didn't buy a tkt on SkyTeam, you bought a ticket on NW. You're asking for something that can't be done, end of story.

Come on, lets all just take a deep breath. He was just searching for logic behind an experience he had on a flight that didn't make sense; isn't that part of what this forum is for, to get questions answered for which we won't know the answer?

I mean, we don't have to start a boxing match about things that have already been stated. Just take a deep breath and relax. In the end, we are all here for fun, right?



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2408 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19):
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

What does this mean then?

It means you will get a free coke.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7711 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

What the agent at NW and DL told you was 100% correct. Unfortunetely, the do not codeshare on every flight, and there are certain restrictions on codesharing that were required by the DOJ for anti-trust reasons. The airlines aren't generally aren't allowed to codeshare on hub-to-hub routes.

They can't endorse you over to DL unless they are the ones initiating the change. Since you were on a B fare, you could've asked for a refund on the NW ticket, then gone and bought a DL ticket, however I'm not sure how it works since you had already used part of the reservation on the outbound.

This isn't unique to Skyteam, the others are like that when they are not codeshare flights. What the alliance does help with is booking codeshare connecting flights (where they exist), checking through baggage, and FF miles.

As others have said, DL is the least integrated into the rest of Skyteam, othe than AF. There are major issues between DL/CO and DL/NW.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Thanks PSU, and others for clearing that up.

I was never really irate about it, just trying to understand why it was an issue.

I think that even for someone like myself who travels weekly, the concept of "aliance" was somewhat bedeviling to me.

I think I understand the situation better, thanks!


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2408 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 23):
think I understand the situation better, thanks!

And enjoy that can of Coke!  Smile


25 DTWAGENT : As a travel agent. It would seem like NW should have put you on the DL flight. However, we have to remember that both airlines are in bankreputsy. And
26 Luv2fly : I think the thing to remember is that NW/DL are not allowed to code share on the flights that operate solely between the hubs of said airline.
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : This has nothing to do with bankruptcy. Both airlines are businesses, and they will only cooperate to a certain extent. NW is going to give its money
28 TVNWZ : Actually it would be very simple...if they wanted it to be. It surely is no more complicated than accounting for weather, overbooking, mechanicals. I
29 Freedom747 : Airlines aren't responsible for having to rebook for free because of YOUR meeting ran late, bud. God, I hated that saying from business jerks whenever
30 RobertS975 : PSU is correct. There is an alliance, but one of the key requirements of the US government is that the airlines in the alliance continue to compete w
31 Dtwclipper : I didn't ask to be re booked for free, however I do buy tickets that allow for changes. I asked to be re booked and ran into some confusion, it has s
32 TVNWZ : Spot On! I buy refundable and often first class tickets. We are their BEST customers. I don't think it is too much to ask to be treated that way. How
33 Post contains images B777-700 : You paid $800 for a refundable tkt. You didn't buy a tkt that lets you jump from airline to airline whenever you like. And I explained it to him...a
34 Virginia : Dtwclipper, Next time go to the ticketdesk of the airline involved, srry to say, but a lot of people have no idea where they are talking about. NW cou
35 Dtwclipper : You are actually wrong here, but i'm not going to get into it. No, I'm not arguing with you, never have never will, ain't worth battling wits with th
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : Depends how look at it: DL is the most integrated into Skyteam on the European side, however they are the least with their American counterparts. NW/C
37 B777-700 : No, I'm not. Get your refund, then buy a tkt on Delta, just like NW, and everyone here told you. That makes absolutly no sense. Whatever dude. You're
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