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Northwest Gets Dot Approval To Launch Compass  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3091 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7671 times:

Courtesy: WCCO-TV

Northwest Gets Department Of Transportation OK To Launch Compass

Only FAA Approval Remains

http://wcco.com/business/local_story_271205506.html

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZschocheImages From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7439 times:

This is good for NW incase for some reason the financial situation at XJ doesn't clear up and they go under.


Why fly with 2 engines when you can have 3?
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2441 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Quoting ZschocheImages (Reply 1):
This is good for NW incase for some reason the financial situation at XJ doesn't clear up and they go under.

Compass has what...*one* plane, two maybe? Won't be of much help if Mesaba does shut down....



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Quoting ZschocheImages (Reply 1):
This is good for NW incase for some reason the financial situation at XJ doesn't clear up and they go under.

I totally agree. It will be nice to see Compass finally get off the ground after so much time.

Do they have their own codes yet? Will they get one since they have their own op. certificate?



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7402 times:

Code is DH and the AOC is FlyI.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7367 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 4):
Code is DH and the AOC is FlyI

It can't be changed due to the fact the FlyI is now defunct? And Compass is a "brand new" airline?



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7346 times:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 5):
It can't be changed due to the fact the FlyI is now defunct? And Compass is a "brand new" airline?

I think he was implying that Compass will follow the path of Flyi.


User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2441 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7311 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 6):
think he was implying that Compass will follow the path of Flyi.

No. Compass is using the old FlyI operating certificate. NW won it in Indy's bankruptcy auction......



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7299 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 7):
No. Compass is using the old FlyI operating certificate. NW won it in Indy's bankruptcy auction......

correct, although they're changing the AOC a few months after first flight, IIRC.



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7277 times:

Compass = Mid Atlantic Part II

User currently offlineXjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2459 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

hmmm....makes sense now. Interesting.

/end thought

--------

I am sad to see XJ go, but at the same time, I am curious as to how NW will pull this one off.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7221 times:

Shows you real quick where NW top brass minds are at - remember that it was NW who originally started Pinnacle and than sold it to the employees at an expoential profit, and now look where the love is when the times are tough.

NW FA's should be on strike and nature needs to run its course.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7070 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 7):
No. Compass is using the old FlyI operating certificate. NW won it in Indy's bankruptcy auction......

I forgot all about that.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3888 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6917 times:

DOn't you get it? NW is on complete control of what is happening at XJ as well as Compass. XJ isn't in bankruptcy because they're mismanaged (which they are) they're in bankruptcy because NWA forced them there. Compass exists to make the NWA pilots happy and to force downward pressure on Mesaba and Pinnacle.

Everyone is getting screwed by Compass. Bottom line.




AZJ


User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6756 times:

So basically they found another legal way to elimate jobs and cut pay... Pat on their backs!!! Here come the furloughes!!!


"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6439 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6702 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):
Shows you real quick where NW top brass minds are at - remember that it was NW who originally started Pinnacle and than sold it to the employees at an expoential profit, and now look where the love is when the times are tough.

Shouldn't you also add that all the money received from the sale went to pay down the pension fund gap at NWA.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22704 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 9):
Compass = Mid Atlantic Part II

How so? MDA was on the US certificate...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6623 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 13):
NW is on complete control of what is happening at XJ

This thread is not about XJ, even though they might be relates, there are other threads to deal with what is happening at XJ, this is about the launch of Compass.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2224 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6556 times:
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JetBlueGuy2006
Unfortunatly I think Azjubilee is right and his was closest to the comment I've been looking for in those other threads you mention. My statement "Does NW want XJ to go BK?"

I'm thinking Compass is very much part of the equation in XJ's future but was looking for ideas as to how it would play out. A BK filing may force payroll costs down but at what price in an already deflated industry that depends on bottom dollar bids to get contracts from Majors? Mesaba and Pinnacle and now NW already have problems getting qualified and willing workers at these prices. What about flight crews and what it costs them to be trained? Labor is only one side of this though. Who will invest in this segment of the industry at this point?

I think NW expected XJ to already be in step in the BK process by now but the legal talent and corporate desire may not have been up to the plan, especially if they didn't know it to begin with. But what happens next?



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6505 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 14):
So basically they found another legal way to elimate jobs and cut pay... Pat on their backs!!! Here come the furloughes!!!

ANNOYEDFA, you don't even know what you're talking about. With the rate of attrition, furloughing will not be an option. While Compass will be a separate entity, it will be sometime before they take delivery of a substantial number of jets to necessitate furloughing at this point. In time, the number of routes tranferring over to Compass will not be a windfall in numbers. And we, the mainline employees, will have the 77-110 seat aircraft, which will enact the small-jet pay when and if, they enter the fleet. While it is a shitty compromise, it does protect our scope somewhat. The start-up of the Compass routes will phase in, overtime. In that time, the company's demographic will have changed so drasitcally, that NW will be short handed in Compass and mainline. The mass exodus is happening as we speak. On average, between 5-7 people a day are quitting/retiring here in DTW, with similar numbers at other bases. Retirements at senior bases SFO/SEA/LAX/HNL are skyrocketing way beyond the norm over the last 5 years.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 2):
Won't be of much help if Mesaba does shut down....

Compass is the replacement for Mesaba. How long did Northwest avoid paying Mesaba to help force them into banruptcy? I wonder how many MAIR staff have been promised positions at Compass? The whole deal stinks. Lets force one regional operator out of business so we can start over with brand new employees, all at the bottom of the pay scale.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6439 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 21):
Unfortunately too many people are ignorant to the true organization that NWA really is and cannot see what is REALLY going on here. Heck! The BK judges cannot see through the bs. The sad part is that the "boys", and I use that term loosely, in Eagan are playing the employees that work for NWA and their Airlink partners like chess pieces in a nasty game they call running an airline. And for what? All for the cheapest costs to maximize the profits and bonusses at the top while at the same time forgetting that their running an airline that is in the service industry.

Could not have said it better myself. While I many times point out wrong information about NWA on this forum, I agree that NWA is acting with a design in mind and has been since the takeover by Wilson, Checchi, Malec and group.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22704 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 21):
NWA wants you and the rest of the outsiders to think that Mesaba, Pinnacle and Compass are all separate entities. While they indeed so on paper and structure, all the money flows back to the same place... NWAC.

Why is that such a bad thing? MQ is essentially the same story (though they merged all of the certificates except for SJU ATR flying a while ago), and they seem to do fine.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 20):
Compass is the replacement for Mesaba.

While that's partially true, Compass is also a DC-9-10 replacement. Bear in mind that NW quietly eliminated them from the fleet a few years ago without a replacement in that size group.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 21):
And for what? All for the cheapest costs to maximize the profits and bonusses at the top while at the same time forgetting that their running an airline that is in the service industry.

Isn't that the point of a business? And let's be honest, in what business don't executives try to maximize their take?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
While that's partially true, Compass is also a DC-9-10 replacement. Bear in mind that NW quietly eliminated them from the fleet a few years ago without a replacement in that size group.

I would believe that statement more if Northwest didn't already have the Airbus 319 on property. If they need a smaller aircraft, I think it would be much more economical to bring in the 318 rather than start a whole new carrier, complete with all the infrastructure that it requires.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22704 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6111 times:

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 24):
If they need a smaller aircraft, I think it would be much more economical to bring in the 318 rather than start a whole new carrier, complete with all the infrastructure that it requires.

A 318 would likely seat about 105 in a NW configuration. That's more like a D9S replacement.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 Lowrider : But how do the operating econimics compare to a DC9-10?
26 EMBQA : I have heard they also signed the letter of intent this week for around 35 aircraft. They should announce their choice soon.
27 Cubsrule : I would imagine they're terrible. A 318 is a shrink. The -10 was the original DC-9.
28 Lowrider : I am not so sure when you factor fuel, mx, and training. Plus all that cost of starting up a new carrier. It seems like another case of spending a do
29 Cubsrule : If we're talking about a fleet of 50-100 planes, which is the size generally discussed for Compass ultimately, the fixed costs are pretty low on a pe
30 JetBlueGuy2006 : I understand that even though they are all seperate but still part of NWAC, I am just making the point that this specific thread is not about XJ, it
31 Lowrider : OK, so add the 195 to the Northwest fleet. It is my understanding that the Avros were on the way out, leaving that aircraft size wide open. I think t
32 Nwafflyer : At least, lets get some of the facts right here - Pinnacle is not in bankruptcy, nor is it related to Mesaba - 2 totally separate NWAirlink carriers.
33 Cubsrule : MSP is fine about 95% of the time.
34 KingAir200 : I have heard that the choice is kind of a suprise. Not what everybody was expecting. In reference to flying the 318, the NW payscale for the narrowbo
35 Cubsrule : What was everyone expecting? You have the ERJ-170 series which are superior airplanes in just about every respect versus the significant deposit for
36 KingAir200 : It is between those two, yes. That is all I'll say.[Edited 2006-10-02 06:32:16]
37 Azjubilee : NWAflyer!!!! YOU DON'T GET IT DO YOU? The Mesaba bankruptcy is due to the fact that NWA shrank XJ by HALF. NWA missed 2 payments and stopped deliverie
38 PSU.DTW.SCE : Good to see some of us old-timers are still hangin' around here AZJ, and we are still beating the same old, dead horse. I've been echoing your beliefs
39 Gregtx : Superior in comfort...but not in economics. According to AVITAS, the edge still goes to Bombardier for both trip and operating cost.
40 Xjramper : I shall second that. I flew on XJ about two weeks ago and they were outstanding. The crews were joking with the pax and they were all upbeat and fres
41 Cubsrule : I've still not heard and still want an explanation from one of you XJ cheerleaders about why NW's control over the airlink carriers is such a bad thin
42 Cubsrule : The last numbers I saw gave Bombardier a pretty slight edge, and if they're looking for a solution for the entire 75-115 seat segment, the cost advan
43 Gregtx : 4-9% is not usually considered slight (AVITAS numbers, not BBD's for the CR9)..but he EMB's carries significantly more baggage/cargo---so the point m
44 Burnsie28 : Well then there should be less cost in operating the company..... Last I knew that was XJ, XJ owns the Saabs or leases the, NW doesn't have anything
45 Azjubilee : Burnsie - the B+ saabs are leased from NWA just as the avros and CRJs are. The only saabs XJ had control over were the A and B models. The A's were re
46 Cubsrule : The difference in which I'm interested is the one between MSP and DTW which has nothing to do with scheduling or company doing the handling. No, what
47 Azjubilee : Re: MSP and DTW - as of late there isn't much difference betwen the two. Both operations are short staffed and attract the same type of worker. MSP ha
48 Cubsrule : Why do you assume that I don't know what's going on becuase I'm not an NWA employee? Yes, and if so I would continue to argue that it makes more sens
49 Sophiesdad : Yes, lets get the facts correct. XJ handles the airlink gates in DTW and MSP and a third party vendor handles them in MEM. Pinnacle has never had the
50 Cubsrule : The real paradigm change will be how carriers handle this matter of Embraers. 190s and 195s will be operated by mainline most places, while 170s will
51 XFSUgimpLB41X : Azjubilee is 100% on. It's terrible to see what is happening to the XJ guys... As far as ramp service, both DTW and MSP are hell holes... "what went w
52 PSU.DTW.SCE : First I had heard about 9E taking over the regional ramp in DTW, XFSU....any more details on this? With the Avros departing, and the draw-down of Saab
53 Cubsrule : What's the pay difference for the ramp for mainline versus one of the Airlink companies?
54 KaiGywer : Last ad I saw for NW pays $10.63 or so for rampies. XJ pays $9 for the same job.
55 Post contains links Azjubilee : Looks like I could be right... NWA seen to be splitting the RJ order between Bombarider and Embraer. Not bad for clouded judgement. http://biz.yahoo.c
56 KingAir200 : Called it. I don't think that most people were expecting a split.[Edited 2006-10-04 00:27:33]
57 Meister808 : I think you all are right... Compass is in the mold of MQ, where things are going gloriously. That said, the environment at MQ and the environment at
58 Gregtx : Actually, I thought most were thinking it would be split. How else do you have one aircraft in two series (170/190) being operated by two companies.
59 KingAir200 : But split between CRJ and E Jet families? I hadn't heard that.
60 Centrair : I want to understand why NWA (corp) is doing this. NWA corp currently consists of (I believe) Northwest Airlines, Northwest Cargo, MLT Vacations and n
61 WDBRR : Here we go again with an airline within an airline experiment. we've seen Shuttle by United, Continental Lite, Metrojet by USAir and Delta Express and
62 Centrair : Wasn't that a success? The others well not so successful. But... NH has few "Airlines" (Air Do, Air Nippon) within itself and will add two more subsi
63 Cubsrule : NW has significant scope relief for 76 seaters. I don't have the number handy, but it's large enough that they won't run into a scope problem for a l
64 Azjubilee : Cubs - A little bit of history for you. Years ago NWA bought an Airlink carrier called Express Airlines I and II. They all but desimated the company b
65 Cubsrule : I know the history. What I'm trying to argue is the following... The concept of buying up a regional and taking control of an existing operation (and
66 SkyexRamper : Isn't it odd how NWA is letting their own current regional die and creating a new one. WHY ON EARTH is the "parent" company letting half their company
67 NASCARAirforce : Here is the letter I got from the American Association of Airport Executives today. It talks about the 72 aircraft order. It looks like the E jets are
68 Lowrider : The same thing used to be said about 50 seat RJ's when they were compared to the 30 seat turboprops. Some people never learn.
69 JetBlueGuy2006 : really? Last time I heard, Compass was a regional feeder and NW mainline would order one of the E-190 series to replace the DC-9 and the other of the
70 Cubsrule : Read what I said more carefully. Compass will replace -10s. Mainline will replace -30s, -40s, and -50s.
71 JetBlueGuy2006 : You are confusing me with what your saying. AFAIK (As far as I know) no NW regional carrier ever flew DC-9's. Compass aircraft aren't replacing anyth
72 Cubsrule : Up until a few years ago, NW flew DC-9-10s. They sat about 80. They retired them and never really replaced them. Compass planes are filling in that vo
73 NASCARAirforce : There are DC-9-10s still left?? I been up in Detroit for a couple months and I have yet to see a DC-9-10 flying over other than the cargo ones to YIP
74 Cubsrule : The ARJs and -10s coexisted for a few years at least. XJ's newest ARJ is ship 536, S/N 2372, which was delivered new to them in May, 2000. I believe
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