Aio86 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 928 posts, RR: 0 Posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1652 times:
Do any of you all know if United is going to acquire US Air's jets once they are bought out. I mean, is US Air going to retire their DC-9s and sell of their 330s or is United going to start flying them? Do any of you know if they are going to repaint the entire fleet?
It would be funny to see this...
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10806 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1506 times:
Yes, UAL will acquire the US jets in the merger. Some (MD80 and DC9) will be retired, some (a few 732s and props) will be siphoned off to DCAir. Many believe (like myself) that the F100 and 330 will stay in the combined fleet, while many others believe the opposite. Truthfully, neither group knows for sure, and any posting you'll see here will be (perhaps educated) speculation.
Also, it may be unclear if the US jets will be repainted. Early after the merger was announced, it was also announced that US would be a subsidiary of UAL. I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case, but I can't find much info on that anymore.
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1484 times:
The MD-80, and the DC-9 is gone. The A330 is also going. UAL operates a very large fleet of 767s, and 777s, and having that plane in your would: a) add a lot of extra costs to UAL, b) create a mechanical nightmare, c) could only be used on select routes (atlantic only), and so on.
UAL will give the A330 back to its leasor, because most carriers lease their planes. It makes it so, if there is a hudge problem, the owner has to care for it, not the airline.
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1469 times:
UAL will then sell them to the company that they lease there planes from. The name escapes me currently, but I know that it's in Ireland. After UAL buys a plane from boeing, or airbus, its sold to there leasor, who leases the plane back to UAL. The A330s will not be leased back to UAL, other carriers will jump at the chane to get almost new A330s.
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11150 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1444 times:
I hate to disagree with you but, United is going to keep the A330s if they merge. United has shown some interest in the A330 so thats why they're gonna keep them. I don't know what they're gonna use them for but they're gonna keep them. I'll double check with my next door neighbor who is a United pilot. I'll let you know what he says.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1438 times:
United has shown an interest in a lot of things. Does that mean that they would use them? They showed an interest in the MD-11, but never used it.
I doubt that they will sue the A330 because of the additon of another fleet type. You have to train crews, and do all of the complicated stuff. It's much easier to dump 6 planes, then train 24,000 UAL flight attendants, on that plane. The routes that are flown by an A330 will convert to the 777, 767, and possibly a 747.
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1413 times:
Before UAL can operate it, the f/a's must be trained on that plane. ALL UA F/A'S ARE QUALIFIED TO WORK EVERY TYPE OF PLANE OPERATED BY UAL! So before a single A330 can fly under United's ownership, all UAL f/a's must be trained for it.
The addition of the A330 woruld cause more chaos, then it would solve. Think about it, UAL gets all of US Airways flights (big deal), next, passengers millage gets mixed into the United's Millage Plus program. UAL aquires gate space, at CLT, PHL, BOS, DCA, and PIT. The movement of ground operations is going to be tricky. Having six A330s in the fleet would cause a lot of chaos. Its easier to get one of the new 777s, 767s, and 744s that havn't been delivered to fly those trips
United may go for the 764 over the 333, because they already operate the second largest fleet of 767s in the US. You're not adding a brand new fleet type, just a subtype. Its a lot less complicated. Crew training will be easier because both carriers operatres the 767.
I'm so surprised that no-one has mentioned the F100! Its gone if the merger goes through! Maybe not overnight, but soon. It would be going for the same reason as the A330.
The 737-200s from both UAL and US Airways will be retired. Some may go to DC Air. They are expencive to operate, loud, require 3 man cockpits, and to top it off, they are old! These planes will be replaced by the 737 Classics.
The DC-9s/MD-80s are going. They will be replace by A320 aircraft, and some of 737s.
US Airways's 767s will get configured like United's. During that time the 60XX series will fly some of US Airways routes, as well as the -300. Don't expect US Airways' 767s to be around for too long. Less than 10 years, I'm estimating.
The A321 is not needed, it will be traded for more A320 planes.
The order for 400 airbusses placed by US Airways, willbe cancled. Well most of it. UAL will take delivery ofa about 100 of those planes, and cancle the rest. They are not doing a total fleet replacement like US was.
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11150 posts, RR: 60 Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1404 times:
United will keep there A330s whether you believe it or not. United may even evenutally order the A330. It would fit perfectly into there fleet. Now lets stop argueing. I don't care if you believe me or not. Do as you wish.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
RyeFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1388 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1393 times:
ILUV767- I have to disagree with you on some points. If United was to buy US Airways they would need all the planes they could get. What your saying is they would get rid of the A330, DC-9, MD-80, A321, F-100, and 737-200 plus cancel most of the 400 airbus order. So what would they use to fill those plane that they are getting rid of? United doesn't have enough planes to take on 205 new destinations with just half of US Airways fleet. It would be pointless to take a heavy loss on the A330 and heavy pentalties from Airbus for canceling the order. Only to need more planes to fill the gaps later on. Plus if they were to cancel the order and needed planes a few years later, do you think Airbus would do business with them? Not. That leaves them with Boeing who will have the upper hand. They can charge full price and know they can get it. United will then be left to another 5 year wait to get all the new planes delivered plus mixing up its fleet comonality even more. All because of canceling the Airbus order all ready in progress which would be done with soon. I don't see that happening. The airbus order stands if not increased down the road.
MAC_Veteran From Taiwan, joined Jun 1999, 726 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1374 times:
IF ( and that's a BIG IF) this merger goes through (I dont think it will).
I see the following
Fleetwise, UAL keeping:
The USAirways A32X and A330 fleet
Fleetwise, UAL getting rid of:
The F-100 and continuing DC-9 retirement, selling off the MD80 fleet, selling off the 737-200 fleet
Consolidation of the 737-300 and -400 fleet around an expanded United Shuttle to the East Coast (absorbing MetroJet entirely) USAirways Shuttle Becoming 'United's Northeast Shuttle'; operating with A32X for the most part.
The US A330's being used on North Atlantic routes alongside 777s, complimenting each other on routes and markets that are perfectly sized for each aircraft's capacity. I also see a possibility of A330s being used in Asia, especially NRT feeding Asia traffic into NRT connecting onwards to US bound 747-400 flights.
The 767-300s seeing a redeployment to slightly thinner international routes to Europe and South America (maybe even to Asia alongside the A330s?) along with a buttressing of high demand US domestic routes like LAX-JFK and so forth that can really use it
CNBC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
The deal's not even going to happen. The pilots are against it and it would create far too much of a monopoly in the northeast. All three Washington area airports would be contrroled by the new United. The DC Air idea is a good one but United could just price-gouge and put them out of business. Besides, if the merger took place, US Airways and United are both currently trying to become mostly airbus fliers. Only at the top where there would be A330's and 777's would there be a problem. But, many of the world's airlines do operate A330/777 fleets already and nothing has happened to them.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10806 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1359 times:
ILUV767, you continue to ignore the fact that if the merger occurs (which I strongly believe it will not) UA will OWN 10 to 30 333s. I guarantee you that it will be more expensive to get rid of these brand new jets than it would to train UA F/As on the type. (BTW, what is your source that all F/As everywhere in the system need to be trained on all types? I'd like to read the full spec if you have it.)
I also see the F100s staying. UA doesn't have a plane that can do the F100/DC9 routes.
The 321s will stay also. Obviously, there was a need for them, or US wouldn't have ordered them in the first place, right? Remember, except for the UA hub-US hub flying, there is almost no overlap between these airlines.
You need to see past the idea that UA will still look like UA only bigger to fully understand what would happen if the merger went through. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that US = United Shuttle to the folks at UA. They are a very large disjoint airline that will have needs much different from the needs of UA at present.
Aio86 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 928 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1348 times:
I think, now after hearing all of this that United might do well with the 330. Maybe it could be used for Transatlantic services that are currently opperated by the 767 (ie: ORD-Dusseldorf & IAD -Burssels) since the 767 is already used for so many domestic flights it would be easy just to keep them flying those high density domestic routes. Or, did anyone ever think that United might actually want to keep some of US Air's routes that no one (that US Air frequent fliers have mileage, or would want to fly with) do the special route to Europe that US Air serves to CDG & LGW. Maybe the 767s could also be used for Hawaiian Services, you know like the same way the 767s,777s,747s and 757s & DC-10s are already being used for those flights. By the way awesome picture of the United 330 Ryefly!
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1332 times:
D L X,
UA dosn't own many planes. They are leased. The a330 will be sold to UAL's leasour, and UA won't fly them. Lets look at the routes where an A330 is operated, They are replaceing the 762s over the Atlantic. UA will operate there 762 until the 763s can be scheduled into these routes. The planes that I say that UAL will get rid of are, the DC-9, MD-80, F-100, A321 and the A330. The DC-9 and MD-80 are both getting retired quickly. The F-100 dosn't fit int o the fleet plane, so I bet it will be gone. It will most likly be replaced by Regonial service, considering that UAL will get US Airways' Express carriers.
The A319/20, will replace UAL's 727s, 732s, and US Airways' DC-9, MD-80.
United will put 735s on the routes that currently use a F-100. UAL will also use US Airways' 737 Classics on trips past the Mississppi. A good 734 line may involve SFO to MCI. Just because we get there planes, dosn't mean we have to use them where they did.
I don't understand everyones obsession with the A330. It sucks compared to the 777, in that you don't have the range, you don't carry the same number of pax, and its just pointless to operate them side by side.
You all must understand that US Airways is doing a complete fleet replacement. United is not. So when you say your going to need 250 airbusses to fly there routes, thats a lot of BS! UAL is going to use the Airbusses on trips where the narrow bodies other than the boeings are used. Thats it.
thats good for your neighbor. My dad works for United in Managment, I think I know a little, about what is going on. Infact, I was at the maintence base yesterday, and I asked some of the personal that my fater works with, and they all said that what ever dosn't match, fleet wise, is going to go, for the modt part. The only thing that may stay are the F-100s, but I doubt it.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10806 posts, RR: 52 Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1325 times:
The planes that are leased are even harder to get rid of than planes that are owned. Leases have contracts and terms. If you break the contract, you will pay big penalties. The reason is that the leasing company has already found its customer, and finding a new one is not trivial. Again, this is a cost to remove the plane from the fleet. You must realize this.
The F100 doesn't fit into the fleet plan? I didn't know you were a UAL executive. Any fleet plan designed pre-merger is probably out the window now. You think they'll just put the 735s on those routes? Besides the fact that the 735 is not well suited for the routes the F100 is used on, what plane are you going to fly the routes that are currently 735 routes? You don't think those 57 735s are going to fly both those routes and the 40 F100 routes at the same time, do you? There's a good reason why US had decided not to rid themselves of the F100 at this time. There is no other plane to fly the route.
Your bias shows. I am not obsessed with any A330. I would like to know why you're obsessed with the idea that the 330 is inferior to the 777? It certainly isn't the best fit for SOME routes, but you don't need 777ER range on Atlantic runs, nor do you need 777 pax capacity on all Atlantic runs. There are certainly many routes where an A330 makes more sense than the 777, and they can and have been operated side by side. You realize this, right? Air France has.