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AA: The Future Of American Airlines  
User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 26113 times:

I'm an AA fan and wanted to start a thread to discuss the future of this great airline.

Strengths:
- Only legacy carrier to never have filed bankruptcy. This cannot be underestimated.
- Dominant carrier to Latin America and the Carribean
- LHR carrier with good slot positions
- Good slot positions/frequencies in other controlled markets like Brazil, Argentina, NRT
- Good hub positions in DFW, MIA, and ORD, with a viable presence is almost all major US business centers.
- Appears to have the best or near best record at reducing non-financial, non-labor, non-fuel expense
- Dramatic improvement in labor relations
- Best management of the legacy carriers over the long term
- Brand new/renovated terminals in JFK and LAX
- Extremely strong brand (only United in comparable among legacies)
- Owns its predominant regional airline affiliate (American Eagle)

Weaknesses:
- Large debt load
- An aging fleet of planes
- Much poorer Asia route structure than UA and NW; no NRT 5th freedom and very limited China slots
- General costs continue to be higher than carriers, especially those in BK
- Only weakly profitable
- Lack of strong West Coast presence
- Large pension deficit
- Space or slot constrained in key markets of LAX, ORD, and LGA.
- Lack of long haul (777) aircraft for any significant expansion
- Relative lack of dominant positions in top business markets versus competition. AA is not #1 in many of its large markets, including NYC, LAX, ORD, BOS, etc. Compare with UA which is #1 SFO, #1 LAX, #1 ORD, #1 IAD. AA only really dominates two major markets, DFW and MIA.
- Inferior alliance (no antitrust immunity with One World)
- Inferior product to compete for premium traffic vs. non-US carriers.

Opportunities:
- New China frequencies and other Asian expansion
- Potential acquisition of Asian routes from UA, NW, especially NRT 5th freedom rights.
- Potential acquisition of other carriers/assets such as AS
- Restructuring of financial obligations and/or labor agreements outside of bankruptcy.
- 787 and 737RS offer opportunity to leapfrog rivals fleets
- Strong negotiating position with Boeing to get slots as needed, obtain/restructure financing, etc.
- DL and NW being in bankruptcy puts AA in a strong position if key assets like NRT hubs come "in play".
- Snatching gates from DL in LAX
- Merging with BA in the event of open skies and a regulatory change.

Threats:
- Lower cost competitors resulting from bankruptcy
- Industry consolidation that disadvantages it (e.g., UA/CO)
- Aggressive expansion by bankrupt carriers attacking key AA markets and eroding international yields (e.g., DL expansion in JFK and to Latin America)
- A labor force that is likely to demand that any future profits be given to them.
- UA (an airline with superior assets) getting it act together.
- Botching the transition to EU "open skies" and deepening a relationship with BA (e.g., losing much of your premium traffic to BA)

AA is focusing on optimizing its financial performance with its current assets, and even downsizing where appropriate. This has kept them out of bankruptcy. I think this is key because it means that AA has been forced to focus on controllable costs (non-fuel, non-labor, non-financial) and better labor relations as opposed to the type of financial re-engineering their competitors in bankruptcy have done. I believe this is a key advantage they will retain.

In the short term, I don't see AA doing much differently than they are now. They are not going to make decisions because I or anyone else wants them to be the biggest or baddest. Rather, they are going to make hard nosed financial decisions. This is a good thing, actually. What's next in terms of changes for AA then? Here's what I development I potentially foresee.

1. AA will "sweat its assets" for a few more years, while working with Boeing to secure delivery slots for aircraft that will allow them to leap frog to next gen technology. I expect AA to be a launch customer of the 737RS, locking up with WN a large chunk of the early production slots. I expect AA to buy a large number of 787's, potentially being the driver of a second production line. AA may take delivery of a limited number of planes between now and then to support critical replacements and expansion needs.

2. AA should defend its competitive advantages against other carriers. This means aggressively going after precious assets that come on the block (e.g., frequencies to restricted markets, NRT hub, potential carriers on the block) as well as trying to disrupt competitors which attempt to either dilute AA assets or build competing platforms. In this regard, DL and CO are the biggest threats. I, unfortunately, see no indication that AA has an answer to expansion by those two carriers. AA is seeing its position in NYC substantially diluted, for example.

3. AA should look to restructure its debt outside of bankruptcy. The window of opportunity here is closing as their profitability recovers. Some type of debt-for-equity swap or some such to reduce unsecured debt would greatly improve AA's financial flexibility. Otherwise, bankruptcy is always an option should their cost base prove out of line. The bottom line is that AA's debt is just too high.

4. AA needs to find a win-win approach to upcoming labor negotiations. I think the key is productivity. They should focus more on getting productivity improvements rather than salary give-backs. I think AA can pay market leading salaries if they are getting WN like productivity. Getting through the next round of negotiations without either getting raped by the unions or poisoning labor relations is critical.

5. Look to focused expansion, especially to fill key gaps in Asia and the US West Coast.

Right now AA is pretty much in a holding pattern. That's good for the time being, but eventually doing nothing will erode their competitive position as other carriers are more aggressive. This is true even if those other carriers do stupid things.

I will post more specifics here later, but wanted to get what I though the "strategic context" to set the table for what AA has to work with.

254 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 26033 times:

Many of these points are excellent, but I tend to think that things will only get harder for AA as DL and NW exit bankruptcy with lower costs. AA's aging MD-80 fleet will be in need of replacement and will require upwards of $10 billion to completely replace all 300+ airframes. AA has been very slow as of late with expansion, this may prove to be a problem in the long-run as CO and DL have been expanding rapidly into markets that AA has long dominated. While people on here will tend to state that AA's Latin American market in untouched and unchallenged it can not be ignored that CO and DL are now just as viable options to most people in the United States. While the market has grown, it hasn't grown as much as service levels have, and AA knows this.

All-in-all, AA's management has done an excellent job in keeping American competitive and profitable. Also as the world's largest airline, AA is in a position that every company would love to be in. If rumors of a UA-CO merger are true, however, AA will be in a distant 2nd. But we'll see what happens with that.

I agree with most of your points but also disagree with some. Most notably:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- LHR carrier with good slot positions

It's only a matter of time before U.K. open skies is allowed, and then LHR will be fair game.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- Dramatic improvement in labor relations
- Best management of the legacy carriers over the long term

Labor relations are only going to get worse as airlines return to profitability. The cuts that have been made are now being unimportant. I would argue that US and DL management could also be contenders for best management, as well as CO. US and DL management have completely turned their companies around, US is now the most profitable legacy carrier, something they never achieved in the past.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- Extremely strong brand (only United in comparable among legacies)
- Owns its predominant regional airline affiliate (American Eagle)

Brand recognition is far less important today as it was 5 years ago. People know often fly whoever has the most convenient schedule and the lowest price. In MSP, I know numerous World Perks members who try to fly NW, CO, or DL but will fly FL, SY, AA, UA, etc. if things are right. Service is so poor on US carriers that no one is any better than the other, and people recognise this.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- Merging with BA in the event of open skies and a regulatory change.

Never going to happen. BA is the U.K.'s national carrier, the British government would never allow their hometown airline to be headquartered by some Texans in Fort Worth, and vice-versa. Also their would be huge lawsuits, and it wouldn't be approved by the DOT. Just look at how long it took and at the opposition AA/BA faced when they wanted to codeshare across the Atlantic.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- Potential acquisition of other carriers/assets such as AS

I don't think AA is likely to acquire too many assets of other carriers in the future, which the recent financial woes of US carriers they know what a risk this can be. If AA hadn't acquired TW in 2001, I think AA would have been MUCH stronger today than they are, albeit slightly smaller, but much more profitable.

Jeremy


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6499 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 25993 times:

You didn't mention Wright.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- Lack of strong West Coast presence

Hey, they bought, not 1,... but 2..west coast carriers. Not a strong West Coast presence, their own fault.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
- Only legacy carrier to never have filed bankruptcy.

But one day away, don't forget that.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 25913 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):
Many of these points are excellent, but I tend to think that things will only get harder for AA as DL and NW exit bankruptcy with lower costs.

If AA can get their unions to agree to more concessions and/or productivity improvements, they should be just fine. AA already has the lowest non-labor unit costs of any legacy carrier. It's the enormous labor concessions that Delta, Northwest, United and USAirways were able to extract in bankruptcy that have given those companies an economic edge in the current environment. However, on the other hand, even with their unit cost advantage, AA is still doing quite well because it is generating a unit revenue premium to most of its peers.


User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 25910 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):

Many of these points are excellent, but I tend to think that things will only get harder for AA as DL and NW exit bankruptcy with lower costs. AA's aging MD-80 fleet will be in need of replacement and will require upwards of $10 billion to completely replace all 300+ airframes. AA has been very slow as of late with expansion, this may prove to be a problem in the long-run as CO and DL have been expanding rapidly into markets that AA has long dominated. While people on here will tend to state that AA's Latin American market in untouched and unchallenged it can not be ignored that CO and DL are now just as viable options to most people in the United States. While the market has grown, it hasn't grown as much as service levels have, and AA knows this.

Thank you. I agree with your points to some extent. But consider: DL and NW have fleet problems of their own. Once DL gets done re-allocating equipment to international routes and taking delivery of the handful of 777's they have on order, they will effectively be in the same position as AA with regards to expansion. Neither carrier has the type of assets and market position that AA does either.

I believe bankruptcy leads carriers to focus on the "easy" costs: loans, leases, labor agreements, etc. rather than the "hard" problem of actually running an operationally efficient airline. Bankruptcy may give DL and NW great cost advantages over AA, but UA and US went through BK and didn't exactly emerge as juggernauts. The former two appear to be doing a much better job of using BK, but at the end of the day, there aren't a lot of great examples of companies coming out of BK as world dominators.

I do expect things to get tougher for AA, but the challenge is not insurmountable.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):

It's only a matter of time before U.K. open skies is allowed, and then LHR will be fair game.

Agreed, but then AA/BA will get anti-trust immunity. And access to LHR does not equate into great slots. Other airlines will pay a fortune to buy what AA already has.


User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 25810 times:

Regarding Asian expansion, I will reprise thoughts I have posted elsewhere.

AA presently serves NRT 5x from LAX, DFW, ORD, and JFK. It also serves ORD-DEL and ORD-PVG. It recently terminated or announed the termination of SJC-NRT and DFW-KIX. JL is joining the OneWorld alliance.

AA's typical international strategy is to focus on major business hubs, flying to them from multiple US gateways. This has been the approach taken to LHR, CDG, NRT, GRU, and EZE, for example. Keep this in mind.

Where could AA expand? I see the following possibilities:

1. Additional NRT expansion. I don't see this as highly likely in the short term, but going double-daily from ORD or JFK is not out of the realm of possibility.

2. Additional India service. This market is wide open and AA already has a foothold. Other airlines are clearly going after this, however. AA could look for additional routes to DEL, or look to diversify with routes to BOM. A big problem is the lack of planes that can make these routes. 777LR's, which AA doesn't have, would likely be required. JFK-DEL would have been ideal, except that CO got there first.

3. HKG. Cathay is a OneWorld carrier. AA could deepen the relationship there and fly to HKG, potentially from multiple gateways. Starting ORD-HKG would be the logical place. Can AA get 5th freedom in HKG? UA seems to have it. This might allow AA to do limited beyond flying on its own metal, such as serving some of those Tier 2 China cities with frequencies going to waste. But AA seems very content in general to rely on partners for beyond connections.

4. China. Obviously the DFW-PEK route is a given - if AA gets the frequencies.

Beyond that, I don't see real growth opportunities. Australia is adequately covered with OneWorld partner Qantas. Other cities such as ICN do not have the traffic to justify a route with no code share on the other end. Also, AA is severely lacking in planes, and thus has only limited possible expansion.

The most likely scenario in my mind:

1) DFW-PEK if the frequencies are awarded
2) ORD-HKG if they are not not

Beyond that, I'm not sure AA would have the appetite for expansion.

The wildcard here is either UA or NW ending up in play. If that happend, AA would be an aggressive bidder for the NRT hub of either carrier.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 25730 times:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 5):
1) DFW-PEK if the frequencies are awarded
2) ORD-HKG if they are not not

Not likely. A daily ORD-HKG rotation requires more than two aircraft. DFW-PEK is currently planned to utilize only two, and AA doesn't have any more 777 capacity to spare to make ORD-HKG work. However, I completely agree that once AA does have the planes to make the route work, it is a no-brainer and would be immensely successful. I think a daily ORD-HKG-SIN rotation would work quite well.


User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 25728 times:

What positive (or negatives) would occur if JJ were to join One World?

I would love to see a JJ/AA hub in northeastern Brazil, NAT or FOR.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineATLflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 25648 times:

I would say that the biggest downfall to AA is their aging fleet...and people are beginning to notice it. I recently had a business trip to DFW and several of my colleagues took AA. Almost all of them complained to me that the cabins were falling apart..ripped cloth seats with old yellowish lighting. One even pointed out that in the lavatory there were ashtrays that had "No Smoking" stickers placed on them. You start to realize just how many MD80s AA has when you are delayed 3 hours at DFW (as I was) and almost every plane you see is an MD-80!

I meanwhile flew Delta on a 737-800 with new leather seat covers. The cabin was very clean and smelled new too. The Flight Attendants had their new uniforms on and looked great. Glad to see one airline actually upgrading!


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 25648 times:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 5):
Beyond that, I'm not sure AA would have the appetite for expansion.

There was a thread a few weeks ago suggesting that if AA does not get awarded DFW-PEK, they would look to South Africa.

As far as international expansion, I do think it will be conservative. Northeast Brazil is probably one market that is on the hot list vs. more service to Europe, although I would like to see them expand more into Spain (to integrate more with IB) with JFK-MAD, MIA-BCN, or DFW-MAD. ORD-SVO could also be a good route for them. Service to Asia, with the exception of DFW-PEK, will need more 777's. Unless they order more or shift some from Heathrow (unlikely) and South America (unlikely), they might just hold off until they order the 787.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the role Eagle will play in AA's future. Just a few thoughts:
1. Could the current AA pilot contract be amended to allow for more larger RJ flying from Eagle?
2. If so, could we see larger RJ's pick up some MD80 flying?
3. If some MD flying is moved to Eagle, then AA could better utilize their exsisting fleet to expand domestically to support current or potential international ops at MIA, JFK, LAX, etc.
4. At some point, Eagle will have to replace the Saabs. How old are the ATR's?


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 25578 times:

Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 8):
I would say that the biggest downfall to AA is their aging fleet...and people are beginning to notice it. I recently had a business trip to DFW and several of my colleagues took AA. Almost all of them complained to me that the cabins were falling apart..ripped cloth seats with old yellowish lighting. One even pointed out that in the lavatory there were ashtrays that had "No Smoking" stickers placed on them. You start to realize just how many MD80s AA has when you are delayed 3 hours at DFW (as I was) and almost every plane you see is an MD-80!

I think that generally most AA FFs are happy with the MD80s. AA sunk millions into them in the last 10 years to update their interiors, and I'd say that they are some of the most comfortable planes flying in the U.S. today as long as you aren't in the last 5-10 rows, and especially if you are in First, where there is just about no noise at all.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
Could the current AA pilot contract be amended to allow for more larger RJ flying from Eagle?

It doesn't need to be amended. Eagle can grow much, much more before it even begins to approach its capacity restrictions. In the rewritten AA-APA contract from 2003, Eagle's system ASMs are allowed to grow to, IINM, somewhere in the neighborhood of 105-110% of AA domestic ASMs. Currently, Eagle is at about 10-15%, by my estimate.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
If so, could we see larger RJ's pick up some MD80 flying?

The AA-APA contract says that AA mainline pilots get flying on any jets over 70 seats (i.e., bigger than the CRJs) but smaller than the MD80s as long as it is "cost neutral" to the company -- meaning that as long as, say, the EMB-190 (just an example, not a prediction) could be flown by AA pilots at the same price as Eagle pilots, AA pilots get the flying.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
If some MD flying is moved to Eagle, then AA could better utilize their exsisting fleet to expand domestically to support current or potential international ops at MIA, JFK, LAX, etc.

No MD80 flying will ever go to Eagle, and no Eagle pilots will ever be flying MD80s. Not to mention, there isn't much more cutting mainline can do with MD80s and shifting over to Eagle. Major former AA markets like CLE, PIT and BDL/PVD-ORD have now moved to all-Eagle, whereas some markets that everyone thought were headed for RJs like DFW-CMH/MEM are mainline.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
At some point, Eagle will have to replace the Saabs. How old are the ATR's?

The SAABs are not going anywhere anytime soon. Back around 1998-1999, everyone thought it would be such a great idea for Eagle to go all-RJ, and then everyone figured out that the RJs had astronomical unit costs and were virtually impossible to fly profitably on the really short flights Eagle was using SAABs on, particularly out of DFW and LAX. The SAABs will remain, as they are the perfect plane for these shorter, thinner markets out of these two hubs. The only way I can see them going away is if Eagle outsources flying to really small markets to a third-party like what they have in St. Louis, but that would violate multiple union contracts, or if they got rid of the LAX hub and moved all SAABs to DFW and let Horizon take over the intra-California stuff. I personally find neither eventuality too likely, though.

As for the ATR72s, they are not going anywhere either. While they are pieces of sh*t and people can't stand them (myself included), they are perfect for the markets they serve out of MIA and SJU -- high density, lots of cargo/bag room, etc. Long-long-term (I'm talking another 10-15 years from now) I could see Eagle (Executive) replacing them with 70-seat Q400s.


User currently offlineB6DC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25517 times:

Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 8):
I meanwhile flew Delta on a 737-800 with new leather seat covers. The cabin was very clean and smelled new too. The Flight Attendants had their new uniforms on and looked great. Glad to see one airline actually upgrading!

It may seem like a minor thing, but I think this is a huge hole in AA's "brand". DL's flight crews look sharp, like in years past. AA's uniforms are old, and out dated. I see AA pilots everyday, and they mainly look like slobs. I think this is an easy, quick, and cheap way to make your brand, or in this case your airline more attractive...The seat covers wouldn't hurt either, but why not start w/ the face of your airline.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25470 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):

I think that generally most AA FFs are happy with the MD80s. AA sunk millions into them in the last 10 years to update their interiors, and I'd say that they are some of the most comfortable planes flying in the U.S. today as long as you aren't in the last 5-10 rows, and especially if you are in First, where there is just about no noise at all.

 checkmark ...flying on AA MadDog's every month, I agree...the MD80's are very comfortable, and I have yet to see even one MD80 in "bad" shape....the interiours are in excellent condition...now about those 757's..that's a different story... spin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25453 times:

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 11):
AA's uniforms are old, and out dated.

Yes, they are, but does updating them really add value for customers and the company? Is a traveler going to choose another company over AA because AA's uniforms are old? Not likely.

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 11):
I see AA pilots everyday, and they mainly look like slobs

I think that some of the more senior geriatric flight attendants have that problem then the pilots. I'll definitely give you that -- some of those people have just completely lost any committment to personal appearance whatsoever because they know they'll be gone in a few years anyway.

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 11):
I think this is an easy, quick, and cheap way to make your brand

It's not cheap. Delta spent millions (that, I might add, they didn't have) on their new uniforms, and while your friends may have been impressed with how the flight attendants on Delta looked in their new clothes, I'd be willing to bet that many, if not most, of Delta's flight attendants would much rather get some of their hundreds of millions in concessions back rather than get new uniforms. Perhaps a happier flight attendant -- even if in an older uniform -- is worth more than a pissed off, bitter flight attendant with Richard Tyler on.


User currently offlineMorrirvolando From Puerto Rico, joined Aug 2006, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25412 times:

What a ridiculous turn this thread has taken...uniforms and aircraft interiors determine an airline's future.

Hey ATLflyer, out of curiosity, have you passed recently through the Delta facilities at JFK?


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25399 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
Perhaps a happier flight attendant -- even if in an older uniform -- is worth more than a pissed off, bitter flight attendant with Richard Tyler on.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The flight attendants love their new uniforms and have a renewed spirit about Delta ever since the turn-around. If anything it was the old uniform with the pissed off flight attendant, and the Richard Tyler uniform now with the perky happy flight attendant. They LOVE their new, beautiful uniforms. The best in the legacies.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
Is a traveler going to choose another company over AA because AA's uniforms are old?

It sure as hell makes a better impression on the customer when they see new uniforms on happier flight attendants instead of old uniforms on sloppy flight attendants. Isn't that partly how customers choose their airlines? Appearance? I'd say so.

[Edited 2006-10-01 22:35:15]


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25402 times:

I made the mistake once, of complaining about "I gotta fly on this antique?" to a ORD based AA FA on a Mad Dog.

The FA looked at me and said "Don't diss my airplane! I love flying and working on this plane! It's a great machine!".

I fell in love with her and the Mad Dog!  Smile



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25399 times:

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 11):

It may seem like a minor thing, but I think this is a huge hole in AA's "brand". DL's flight crews look sharp, like in years past. AA's uniforms are old, and out dated. I see AA pilots everyday, and they mainly look like slobs. I think this is an easy, quick, and cheap way to make your brand, or in this case your airline more attractive...The seat covers wouldn't hurt either, but why not start w/ the face of your airline.

Well, I agree with you on the uniform thing, except that the traveling public has shown repeatedly over the last few years that the only thing that matters is the price of the ticket. AA has recognized this and is not going to be investing money in items with no financial returns.

What I would argue is that AA has made far too many cuts in its premium offerings. There price is not the issue, and things I've complained about in the past such as warm moist towelettes instead of real hot towels in International First Class will chase customers away. I probably should indicate that investments in the premium cabins is something that needs to be done. I believe AA recognizes this as evidenced by, for example, their new business class seat. (No, it is not SQ, but that's not their brand image anyway).

Oh, and I guess another strength I should have added is that AA is one of only two USA based carriers with a true international first class product.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25378 times:

Quoting Morrirvolando (Reply 14):
Hey ATLflyer, out of curiosity, have you passed recently through the Delta facilities at JFK?

I admit, that is a sh**hole. It's a disaster. Employees that don't speak english, customers getting on wrong buses to wrong planes (CRJ's), and dark, confusing terminals. I completely agree.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25376 times:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
Lack of long haul (777) aircraft for any significant expansion

so someone should explain this to me because AA has over 45 777. I think that if they wanted to they could make some changes and free up some of those. if delta can do it with less than 10 I'm sure something could be worked out.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25357 times:

Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 8):

I would say that the biggest downfall to AA is their aging fleet...and people are beginning to notice it. I recently had a business trip to DFW and several of my colleagues took AA. Almost all of them complained to me that the cabins were falling apart..ripped cloth seats with old yellowish lighting. One even pointed out that in the lavatory there were ashtrays that had "No Smoking" stickers placed on them. You start to realize just how many MD80s AA has when you are delayed 3 hours at DFW (as I was) and almost every plane you see is an MD-80!

Given your handle, are you a Delta flyer? I ask because DL also has a large MD-80 fleet, second only to AA I believe.

The only problems with AA's aging fleet is fuel efficiency and maintenance. The interiors are not a major factor in whether or not customers actually buy a ticket.


User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25336 times:

A good SWOT analysis...you must have some business background to organize it the way you did in your thread-starter.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):
It's only a matter of time before U.K. open skies is allowed, and then LHR will be fair game

Well...EU-US open skies is there, in principle. However, the EU won't implement it until the US Gov't. lifts the foreign ownership %-age, from 25-49.9%+, along with allowing execs. from European airlines to play an active role in the daily management of US airlines. Even the GOP congress is having reservations about that, despite the fact that GWB is all for it. With it becoming increasingly likely that the Dems will retake Congress, it's uncertain as to whether these issues will get worked out, and it's entirely possible that the late 2005 agreement may put on the shelf to gather dust.

We'll see. AA is a great airline and a tough competitor, and for that reason, a long-term survivor. They've been able to fly above a lot of the industry turbulence the last few years by avoiding Ch. 11 and actually communicating with their employees. How long that lasts for is anyone's guess, but it seems to be serving them well for the short term.


User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25316 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 19):

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Thread starter):
Lack of long haul (777) aircraft for any significant expansion

so someone should explain this to me because AA has over 45 777. I think that if they wanted to they could make some changes and free up some of those. if delta can do it with less than 10 I'm sure something could be worked out.

I believe DL was flying a lot of 767's domestically, which let them redirect that capacity to international flying to replace 777's, then redeploy the 777's to the longest haul markets.

AA has a large 777 fleet. It needs this both for long haul flying and other routes that support an international first class product (which DL lacks), notably LHR. AA also doesn't have a lot of 767's ready to be easily re-deployed. If anything, AA is running short on 777's, as they should probably run all of their EZE, GRU, and GIG flights with them which they currently can't do today.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8424 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25295 times:
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MPD Pilot,

AA has 45 777 which are mostly spoken for. 17 flight a day to LHR require well 17 777's. Double Daily Miami - EZE require 4 777's. Jfk and Miami to GRU daily each another 4 777's. I'm up to 25 and haven't even crossed the Pacific yet. Tokyo, Shanghai and India eat up all the rest of the 777 capacity. AA needs 777-200LR, then we can talk expansion.


User currently offlineWsan581 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25272 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
If AA can get their unions to agree to more concessions and/or productivity improvements, they should be just fine.

This will be a challenge if they continue to be profitable, also i read somewhere that the pensions are under budgeted by over 2 billion dollars.

AA deserves credit for everything they have done without the help of bankruptcy, something all legacys cant say.



Blue Skies Ahead!!
25 Alitalia744 : Better to be paid crap and wear nice uniforms than to be paid crap wearing 20 year old uniforms right? After all, AA's F/As had to give concessions t
26 BigGSFO : I meant would any current MD80 markets be replaced by larger RJ's flown by Eagle. However this information: ...gave me the answer I was looking for.
27 Commavia : My mistake then, I meant no offense. However, the fact remains that for 95% of air travelers in 2006, the uniform the employee is wearing is the last
28 Post contains images Ikramerica : You really wear your bias on your sleave. I'm no fan of either DL or AA after flying both for so long, but to single out the newest DL narrowbody as
29 SESGDL : DL has refurbished MD-80s, MD-90s, and 767s with new lighting, signage, and seats. Having flown on both AA and DL MD-80s in recent months, I can say
30 Jfk777 : AA strategy of going to the main financial center of the world is working. I would like to see Hong Kong, I think not flying to another ONEWORLD membe
31 Alitalia744 : But they gave concessions none-the-less. And one would think that given they're the highest paid in the industry that their attitudes would show it.
32 DBCooper : As an AA frequent flyer (Exec Plat), let me tell you some concerns I have: * AA's long-haul business class product is simply not competitive - or even
33 Commavia : Agreed. Some AA Flight Attendants just have down-right horrific attitudes, but it's always been that way. They are notoriously militant as a group, b
34 CHIFLYGUY : I agree totally. AA has some dog flight attendants; it's a huge airline and some bad apples are to be expected. But AA's best flight attendants are a
35 Incitatus : I see some serious contradictions in your statements.
36 DBCooper : A lot of my biz travel is on AA. Personal is not. Contradiction explained, not that it is any of your business. - DBC
37 Jacobin777 : Even if there is a full open sky agreement....obtaining enough slots is difficult and expensive.....AF might help DL with some potential slots, but I
38 Incitatus : I agree with that. Key to getting off the holding pattern is to come to an agreement with the pilots that improves the competitiveness of the company
39 CHIFLYGUY : DL might be able to get slots from AF, but I'm skeptical that AF would simply give slots worth north of $10 million each to DL out of the goodness of
40 Dfwagt : If I am not mistaken, DL has not paid for the new improvments they have made. How is it that an airline that is Bankrupt can do so much? The have exp
41 Tommy767 : By the end of this year I will be a gold status member on AA. Here are my takes: STRENGTHS: --JFK/LAX routes most sucessful. --Nice referbished termin
42 ATLflyer : I am not saying that Delta has nothing else to fix/upgrade because they do. Their JFK terminals are not great by any means, but at least they are doi
43 Alitalia744 : DL has paid for the improvements. They were budgeted for just like everything else. Stop trying to start shit.
44 Laxintl : The Saab fleet is definately on the way out. Matter of fact a deal was inked just last week for 25 AE Saabs to head to Australia starting this Decemb
45 Wsan581 : I think what he means is that AA has had no help from bankruptcy protection unlike DL. Ok if what you say is true then they paid for the upgrades BUT
46 Alitalia744 : DL is paying it's bills in bankruptcy. Ex the pension, which is being dumped. You have a warped view on what Chap 11 is my friend, you dont just get
47 Wsan581 : They get heavy discounts that they would not have seen had they not file for bankruptcy protection right? There fore they have been forgiven portions
48 777STL : His point still stands, though. DL's employees have paid for the improvements, not DL.
49 Akizidy214 : Nope! That Flight always has a heavy load. Look for the 777 to come from the RDU-LGW route and the other one from Boeing when it is returned from the
50 Akizidy214 : Only the B+'s are on the way out. They are currently be sent to MCI for mainteance and then being returned to SAAB leasing.
51 Wsan581 : I agree with you...if memory serves me right, a couple of years ago I believe DL could not pay there sky chefs and as a result thhey had no food or d
52 AA777223 : Very nice SWOT analysis! Someone paid attention in marketing class. I am an AA elite flyer, and I think they are working hard. They certainly have the
53 Akizidy214 : Is 98$ to much? What Fares are you talking about?
54 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .....and DL basically owns nothing.....it "mortaged" away its future a couple of years ago to the likes of American Express ....AA777223...with respe
55 NYCAAer : Here's a rumor I've been hearing on the line... but take it with a grain of salt until you actually read it in print- American is planning to announce
56 Wsan581 : AA is trying to simplify there fleet...with that in mind I doubt they would jump on the 320's. In the future i see them with: 777's 787's and the nex
57 Post contains images Jacobin777 : How large is the grain?
58 Akizidy214 : Ha ha! AA is working with Boeing on the 737RS. This will be the S80 replacement. I've been hearing mumblings that AA is exploring the possibility of
59 CHIFLYGUY : AA already has both 777's and 737's on order with Boeing, deferred into the future, with deposits paid. They don't need to order any additional aircr
60 Post contains images Akizidy214 : Must be Rock Salt.
61 Akizidy214 : Only 738s
62 Ikramerica : Agreed. The 757s are awful and they could use the 738 seating and make them quite nice. Wow, that rumor has been going around A.net for months. Which
63 Ken777 : AA has faced a lot of challenges because they avoided BK and it has seemed to me that the pax are the ones that get hit with a lot of the "cost saving
64 Commavia : To my knowledge, the Eagle SAABs going to REX are SAABs that Eagle has already removed from flying. However, there is absolutely no plan to remove th
65 SKY1 : This is not an absurd idea, specially if it's true that Airbus is offering AA a very good deal, although the Boeing-AA tie is so strong as the Airbus
66 Boston92 : These is a great combination to have.
67 Akizidy214 : Sorry It was DBcooper I meant to quote. I did'nt know that about the JFK-EZE route thanks.
68 747433 : Not true. Route can be flown with 2 aircraft. AC flies YYZHKG daily with 2 A340-500s and CX only requires 2 of their 3 A340-600s to fly JFKHKG daily.
69 Commavia : AC makes it work because their flight leaves YYZ very early (before 1000). That schedule likely would not work for AA, which probably wouldn't want i
70 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I was thinking of something larger than that....
71 Cairo : You forgot to list one huge asset. AA has the best name in the airline business among US carriers in the international market. This doesn't mean much
72 747433 : Why would AA waste valuable 777 time on a short HKGSIN route which is already well covered by their OW partner CX and would be close to impossible to
73 Commavia : It's just an idea. For the schedule to work viably, from my perspective, it has to RON in Asia anyway. If its going to sit overnight anyway, why not
74 DFW13L : I would be looking for Eagle to increase, not decrease the amount of Saabs in the fleet over the next 6 months or so. With the recent Louisiana expan
75 Post contains images UA933 : Why would UA sell their pacific routes? That the part of the market in which whey are dominant and expanding (appl. PEK-IAD) United American Airlines
76 Post contains images BigGSFO : Very unrealistic. The DOJ would need a whole box of red Sharpie pens to edit that document.
77 CHIFLYGUY : UA hired Goldman Sachs to explore strategic options. There is a lengthy thread on it elsewhere. The bottom line, if UA doesn't at least go through th
78 Post contains images FlyMD : I have to agree with many here that one of AA's biggest downfalls is it's aging retro fleet. While IFE is not everything, in today's intensely competi
79 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Besideds ending LHR-JED, actually they are expanding in the MidEast. I would say its almost close to 50/50 with some A300's added...
80 LMP737 : If Delta had the "best management" they woyuld not be in the situation they are now. As for US Airways it's not the US of old. It's basically America
81 SESGDL : I'm talking DL management of now. DL's management of 5 years ago is completely different and they are the ones that ran the airline into the ground.
82 Post contains images FlyMD : Touche. I actually went through the entire AA timetable and tallied the international routes using 763 and those using 777. There were actually only
83 Post contains images Jacobin777 : But they increased LHR-DXB, and ugraded LHR-ISB from a 777 to a 747, not to mentioned increased frequencies and locations on LHR-India.... Cheeers
84 LAXdude1023 : One route that I think needs to be added on AA is DFW-MAD. Ive often thought DFW can support one more route to Europe and I think this would be the on
85 LMP737 : If you look at the executive bios of DL managment team you will see that quite a few of them have been aorund for a number of years in other postions
86 Jfk777 : AA with A320's, I heard some crazy thoeries but that one yakes the cake. Why in the world would AA buy hose birds? Airbus has been selling those like
87 WorldTraveler : Good thread, CHIFLYGUY. Well thought out. I agree that Wright is a bigger issue than AA or WN believes. But it also symbolizes that AA has more market
88 Commavia : Why should AA follow the Delta strategy of putting planes into every landing strip that can take a 767 when the strategy they have is already working
89 CentPIT : Rumor has it, that PIT will be seeing mainline back as soon as January 2007!
90 Jfk777 : AA serves most of the top cities and finacialcenter in the world except Hong Kong. AA has a unique strength, in that it has a strong presence on eithe
91 SESGDL : I would argue that the only major markets where DL does not have big recognition that AA has is in Chicago and in London, and to a lessor extent, Los
92 Commavia : I think, though I could be wrong, that once a station goes Eagle for more than 24 months, AA can bring in mainline equipment again, up to a certain n
93 LAXdude1023 : This would do very well and it would provide better connection opprotunities. Linking DFW and SYD should be a priority of QF, but I agree, look for i
94 DeltaSFO : That may be true of United, but it is not true of DL. Roughly one third of the cost savings Delta has realized in bankruptcy (these on top of the $5
95 Tommy767 : Well now, thats a bit too harsh. Yes the seats are awful, but I've noticed that they have kept up the rest of the interiors. The pannelling is new, t
96 Commavia : According to ATW, AA now has the lowest non-labor costs in the industry, as cited from AA's internal numbers. They'd be stupid not to bring it up. Th
97 777STL : AA's F and new J class outweigh anything DL currently has. AA is the competition and there's a reason why AA can't dump millions of dollars into impr
98 Post contains images Jacobin777 : True...however, even though AA has a larger debt load, its a much, much larger company than DL, and can handle that debt load for now....it has a bet
99 CHIFLYGUY : Thank you. I disagree. Nothing has kept WN from increasing service to the Dallas area. They have always been free to fly from DFW - they simply didn'
100 CentPIT : Yes, I think your correct, except I think it might be a little less than 24 months. For some reason, I want to say it is 14 months? I sure hope PIT g
101 USPIT10L : Maybe it's 18 months. PIT-MIA was an MD-80 RON in 2003, after the intial STL pulldown, and that only lasted two months. It's now, as you know, twice
102 WorldTraveler : You are a bit naive if you think any company's creditors are going to let AA or any company strip out the best assets, effectively shutting the compa
103 Jacobin777 : I never said DL ever has had an advantage.....AA might have larger debt load, but that's not necessarily a bad thing..as long as it can manage the de
104 777STL : You do realize there are consequences to filing for BK don't you? It's generally not something a corporation does because it wants to. Airline X reta
105 Post contains images TeamAmerica : With good reason. It's a dead issue. The US Congress does not agree. The Wright compromise passed unanimously in the Senate, 386-22 in the House. Tha
106 Post contains images N328KF : I realize that I may be one of the few PoliSci majors here, but even so, I think most people here would agree 386 aye and 22 nay does no equal "unani
107 777STL : Nevermind the fact that the Senate only has exactly 100 members.....
108 Post contains images TeamAmerica : I wrote "unanimously in the Senate, 386-22 in the House" which is precisely correct. To aid your understanding, I will clarify: US Senate: Unanimous
109 UAL777UK : Exactly, of course they are. I am not reading much on A.nets about AA setting the world alight with there new J seats and IFE but rumour is that the
110 WorldTraveler : Maybe you are new to the industry or don’t understand its finances but just about all comparisons are done on a unit basis… Available seat miles,
111 TeamAmerica : I don't explain it because it isn't true. Other carriers have always been free to serve North Texas. The potential for competition is exactly the sam
112 Post contains images BA787 : I think AA need to consider their options carefully. A new a/c buy is not only costly but as yet there is no direct replacement for some of their flee
113 Jacobin777 : Please, don't insult me.....if you've read my other comments, you would know I'm not a tyro... That being said, I was only making a "general statemen
114 AA767400 : The Flight Attendants that put screws on their wings were the former TW Crews that were based in STL. When they were stapled to the bottom of the sen
115 Incitatus : I doubt it. The two best managed airlines in the US are Continental and American. Those will be the two survivors and long term competitors. Delta is
116 LAXdude1023 : HAHA, Imagine that, it turned into a DL vs. AA thread. Both airlines have strong points and weak points. (these are just my 2 cents, not based on data
117 SESGDL : I'd tend to disagree with that. DL currently has non-hub point-to-point service to a number of cities: LAX, SFO, DFW, MCO, JAX, FLL, PBI, BWI, RSW, M
118 Jfk777 : AA has strong operations in the two mid-west hubs, DFW & ORD. Boston, JFK, LGA, FLL, IAD and The Cuban King: Miami. Internationally: LHR & NRT rule bu
119 SESGDL : AA's operations at both FLL and IAD are minimal, with flights to the hubs and to LAX and also SFO for IAD. Jeremy
120 WorldTraveler : No other airlines have the opportunity to grow at DAL without having the 800 pound gorilla sitting on them at DFW. Check your facts, bud. DL's non-fu
121 Post contains links Gmcc : I don't believe that is true, AA has a code share agreement with AS on the West Coast http://www.aa.com/content/aboutUs/co...sharePartners/alaskaAirl
122 LAXdude1023 : Dude, as of now DL has ONE flight to asia, just one. We went over this in that thread. To compare DL's one flight to NRT, to the other airlines many
123 CentPIT : I am pretty sure PIT-MIA is 7x weekly (the twice daily weekend service has ended). The aircraft is an ERD (44 seater).
124 ElmoTheHobo : And much of that is on high CASM RJs. So yes, they might offer GSO-FLL, but can they offer competitive fares - or better yet can they even turn a pro
125 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Er..you can say what you want, I pulled DL's CASM numbers straight out of their recent filings... -and as I said, fuel costs just can't be discounted
126 Alitalia744 : then why are the so stalwart in their support for it's continued placement???? glass? house?
127 MAH4546 : With non-hubs routes, AA also flies FLL-PAP/NAS/LAX/LGA and IAD-LAX. They do not fly IAD-SFO.
128 CHIFLYGUY : DFW-KIX has to be marginal at best because AA is ending it. PVG and DEL are relatively new markets, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had yet to tur
129 Jacobin777 : marginal doesn't = "in the red"...AA is quite conservative when it comes to running flights.....ORD-NGO was profitable, even after the loss of the To
130 MAH4546 : Relatively new, yes, but with Shanghai you have a limited entry market, and with Delhi one of only two non-stops from North America. Delhi, from what
131 WorldTraveler : On an ASM basis, DL operated the most profitable route Pacific of any airline. Scale is not the issue. FL and US were both more profitable than DL or
132 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..dude, you have a lot of balls making bold statement like that..you don't know what data I do and don't have...so who are you to make up comments? A
133 JGPH1A : The UK government has no say in who owns BA. BA is a private company, and can be bought by anyone willing to shell out the 4bn required to cover the
134 777STL : Indeed, DL needed bankruptcy to be able to compete with AA but if telling yourself that makes you sleep better at night, then by all means.
135 Akizidy214 : Okay and this means what? Nothing if you can't pull a profit! Let's just wait until the 3rd quarter numbers are announced, and once again DL will ann
136 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : To truely grasp how the flight does, does anyone have any numbers on the ATL-NRT, vs. other NRT routes from cities like DFW, IAH, and ORD, etc. I wan
137 Post contains links WorldTraveler : Really? Then why are you so defensive about the truth? Wrong. AA 2Q06 mainline CASM - 10.84 http://www.shareholder.com/aa/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID
138 SESGDL : Bankruptcy was created for companies to be able to restructure without having to liquidate. DL took advantage of this. Whether or not DL did and AA d
139 McMax : I don't think anyone has addressed this point yet. I had also thought this was a possibility as well. An AA FA friend of mine had indicated AA was lo
140 777STL : No kidding. But it's an important footnote in explaining DL's recent success. Like I said earlier, contrary to some peoples' beliefs here, bankruptcy
141 WorldTraveler : I respect AA but never having been bankrupt is a point of pride and nothing else. Every other network carrier has been through BK and survived. There
142 Post contains images TeamAmerica : This is a jaw-droppingly ridiculous statement. Avoiding bankruptcy is nothing more than a point of pride? Well, heck, pride is a sin anyway, so let's
143 777STL : With all due respect, this statement shows that you really don't know what bankruptcy is. You can google definitions and such all you want, but based
144 Planemaker : I hope that you are joking by crowing on so much about Delta's "profitable" Asia route... with only one flight. One flight means absolutely nothing..
145 Incitatus : Bankrupt companies suffer a brain drain and Delta's has been dramatic. That will impact the company long term - its ability to plan and execute opera
146 Post contains images Planemaker : I brought up in another thread that most people are only taking mainline performance into account... which is obviously only part of the picture - bo
147 WorldTraveler : Oh spare me the drama. Do you not think AA has extracted some of the very same wage cuts out of its employees outside of BK as they did inside? Of cou
148 777STL : Dude, it's not even worth giving you lip service anymore. You're a DL cheerleader, we get it. Everything AA does is inferior to DL and DL is the best
149 Post contains images Jacobin777 : You could have saved yourself a headache had you read my post #132...
150 Post contains images Planemaker : Oh, why do you have to bring logic into the discussion. Let us all be DL lemmings.
151 SESGDL : DL is still solidly the third largest domestic carrier by passengers carried, and is second in the world. While domestic ASMS and RPMS have decreased
152 777STL : Read my entire quote, here I'll quote it for you, "......to the extent that it has". As in, AA hasn't been incredibly successful, but relative to the
153 LAXdude1023 : Your bias and obsession for DL is getting in the way of your rationality. That thought process is horrible. Thats like telling everyone who lost alot
154 SESGDL : It really doesn't. They're both still around aren't they? No it isn't. What's not truthful about my statement? And DL has over $3 billion, they've be
155 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : YESSSS!!! Finally another DL fan who is not off his rocker!!! Well said!!!
156 Post contains images TeamAmerica : There is a HUGE difference between what happened at AA and "extracting" wage cuts in BK. If you can't see the difference...well, clearly you can't. S
157 WorldTraveler : The issue here is that you want to self-righteously hold AA up as being superior because they didn't file for bankruptcy. I applaud their efforts but
158 Post contains images Jacobin777 :
159 WorldTraveler : well then don't bother quoting yourself. You obviously can't read, either. I said AA and DL have ended up in similar positions and other carriers have
160 777STL : It could very well be true eventually, but it sounds like more of an opinion than fact, at least at this point. I can respect that, your position is
161 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Who are you addressing this to? Do you even understand what "self righteous" means? I said I admired AA's conduct. I do. To call that "self righteous
162 Post contains images Planemaker : To somehow equate CO's Chap. 11 under Lorenzo (1st in 1983 and 2nd in 1990 - 23 and 16 years ago, respectively) with DL's Chap. 11 is utter and compl
163 N31029 : Hi Everyone. I am newer to A.net, and, probably not as learned as many here, however, the original intent of this thread - from my perspective - was a
164 Post contains images BigGSFO : No need to apologize. Your post is refreshing. Thanks for bringing a positive attitude.
165 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Good enough... Welcome to A.net......
166 N31029 : Hi BigGSFO. Thank you for your kind and gracious words. I have a long ways to go to earn the kind of respect that I know you have, but, I will do my
167 N31029 : Thank you, Jacobin777. I feel privileged to be here. And I know it is people like you that make this community friendly and truly great. Take care an
168 SESGDL : I'm sorry, but you're totally discounting the whole argument for why AA is doing better than DL. Whether or not CO has faced bankruptcy and situation
169 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Welcome aboard N31029!!! It will be nice to have more rational and unbiased opinions on this board.
170 Planemaker : Sorry, but your reply has nothing to do with my reply. The reasons why are very important. They cannot be dismissed. You could, but it isn't factual.
171 N31029 : Thanks for the warm welcome, and, kind words, LAXdude1023! Blessings, N31029
172 777STL : AA faces much more direct competition with WN than DL does, with DAL and MDW being notable examples in AA hub cities. AA was able to avoid bankruptcy
173 WorldTraveler : see below choosing to merge or not is prerogative of management. If it can be done and the company can be profitable, that is a credit to them not so
174 Post contains images TeamAmerica : I admire the people at AA for avoiding bankruptcy. They stand alone amongst US legacy carriers. No high horse required.
175 Post contains images TUSaadvantage : This is my first post on ANET so be kind. I agree with World Traveler on many of the strenghts of AA. But, although AA has been doing fairly well rece
176 BigGSFO : Welcome to Anet!
177 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Welcome to A.Net! I think I understand what you are saying, but it's a case of criticizing a company that was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
178 SESGDL : DL does face more direct competition from LCCs, with FL affecting a large percentage of their operation at ATL, B6 on the East Coast-Florida market,
179 N31029 : Welcome to A.net, TUSaadvantage! Blessings, N31029
180 WorldTraveler : Now that it seems that we have put the AA-DL spat to bed, I will say that AA really has probably the least tweaking to do to its route system to conti
181 QFSYD744 : What is American Airlines success? Was it Taipei, Nagoya, Osaka, Milan, Stockholm, Barcelona, Newcastle, or San Jose?
182 Post contains images QFSYD744 : You are forgetting United Airlines... TED, Premium Service, Auckland departure, Miami downgrade, JFK downgrade.. Reinvented? Mate, perhaps your versi
183 777STL : We live in the United States where we have five or six rather large legacy airlines competing in a market with ever shrinking revenue. And that doesn
184 Post contains images QFSYD744 : For that matter Alaska Airlines should be considered as well managed if not better managed than American Airlines!
185 RIHNOSAUR : With all respect..I completely disagree...the AA MD 80's in my opinion are some of the industries worst to fly on...they are falling apart....I have
186 AA767400 : MXP, and ARN were flown for years my friend. Let´s not forget QF leaving markets in Europe like CDG, and FCO. I don´t see you adding that to the li
187 StuckInCA : Indeed. Some of the aircraft are OK, but some are just awful. I really don't know why you think that aircraft interiors are not a valid discussion po
188 QFSYD744 : Yes, etcetera. However the point I was trying to prove which you have ignored is that American Airlines is not some sort of Phoenician. American Airl
189 TUSaadvantage : Thanks for all the warm welcomes to ANET. I don't really have time to post now about AA, but I do have a question. How do I quote another post, with t
190 TUSaadvantage : sorry, I meant "darker", not "carker".
191 Planemaker : Oh, puhleeeze! Show me once, just once, where I have said "that DL's bankruptcy is a factor in excluding them from being a decent airline"... or just
192 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Actually, yes, in a sense it is. AA makes very rational decisions about yield management. They are not hindered by any feelings that they cannot aban
193 QFSYD744 : Doesnt every other airline in the U.S. make rational decisions when routes are losing money? In that sense how is American Airlines any different fro
194 Aa767400 : And who said they were? Pointing out markets they left is ridiculous considering that MANY other airlines have done the same thing including your fly
195 SESGDL : By no means. FL is BASED at ATL (really in Orlando), it is their main hub though. They operate service to nearly 50 cities from ATL. Where does AA ha
196 QFSYD744 : Please see below. In addition the reason that I have pointed to the failed routes is to prove that American Airlines does not have the name brand rec
197 QFSYD744 : AA767400, Please find some of the American Airlines cheerleading remarks below! Best management? Extremely strong brand? 2 attempts at Osaka.. Attempt
198 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Only after its 15th year of service..I didn't know it took so long for a carrier to figure out it was doing poorly on route.. LAX isn't a big market?
199 Jfk777 : AA has tried KIX(DFW) and NGO(SJO) from weak gateways for non-Tokyo Japanesse service. Certain markets have shown to be only possible from California
200 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Slight correction - NGO was from ORD/TPE was from SJC. JFK777, You have very valid points. AA is not wise to start service from LAX-TPE with CI 2 x d
201 Jacobin777 : Not all routes are profitable.....NCL barley was a go....TPE, NGO were both profitable, but the yields were low and AA needed the aircraft (not to me
202 Post contains images AA767400 : I have. Love assumptions. Wow, I did not know that. Why are you assaulting AA? Seems like you are the QF cheerleader. So why did you bring in QF? You
203 QFSYD744 : LOL.. Number 2, in a market that oddly is untouched by other airlines. There is potential in San Jose, I think it just takes dedication. Jacobin777,
204 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Maybe other airlines see that SJC is just not possible, but at least AA is making a "go" of it all the time......B6 is doing ok... AA has tried quite
205 Jfk777 : AA has a strong International franchise, you all know its strength. It different from Delta's, UA, Cal and NW but it works for AA. AA is strong, given
206 CHIFLYGUY : AA is all but out of gate space in LAX. If they want to expand, they'll need more - especially with the AE remote terminal being demolished in the co
207 QFSYD744 : Instead of the over redundant schedules to ORD and DFW, cant AA combine flights and instead of 2 MD80, operate one 763? If AA had 4 763 in the system
208 CHIFLYGUY : Frequency is king on the ORD-LAX route. UA runs 11 flights a day. Cutting back to only four by AA would be disastrous. AA already runs 5 757's a day +
209 777STL : Lack of 772s wouldn't be the problem. But the next international T7 service won't be ex-LAX, that's for sure. DFW-Bejing is on the table right now, a
210 WorldTraveler : I would hardly call UA's turnaround dramatic. In fact, I'm not sure I'd even say UA has turned around since it STILL posts financial results that are
211 777STL : Bankruptcy has far more longer lasting consequences than one or two unprofitable quarters. It'll be interesting to see how well DL does when they're
212 QFSYD744 : The day that Delta and Northwest emerge from bankruptcy, we can then say that Uniteds turnaround was not dramatic. Until then sit back and wait..
213 Jacobin777 : What? what the 'ell you talking about? AA never went into bankruptcy..those who held on to their shares have been well rewarded....DL went into bankr
214 CHIFLYGUY : One big difference: Those who owned that AA stock worth $150 million now own stock worth $5.1 billion. Value was only destroyed for those who sold. I
215 Post contains images BHMNONREV : Not only lack of available airframes but marginal yields as a result of trying to compete with Asian carriers whose costs are significantly lower tha
216 Post contains images QFSYD744 : VARIG at one point flew LAX-GRU-GIG with the 763, what about American Airlines? Something tells me a system that idolizes and admires Delta day in an
217 Post contains images TeamAmerica : I actually checked your profile to make sure you're not a child. That might've explained how you can keep posting such ridiculous comments. You clear
218 Post contains images Jacobin777 : the sad thing is the poster believes in every word he types......
219 Kanebear : Sure, and AA could fly out of FTW if they wanted to. Nothing is stopping them... save the fact that it makes zero business sense to do so. Varig also
220 Akizidy214 : Your Joking right? FTW hasnt seen comercial aviation since 1953!
221 TeamAmerica : Almost true. Mesa Airlines had service there for a short time in the late 90's.
222 Kanebear : Not entirely true but still illustrates my case. AA can do it, yet it makes zero sense to do so. Same thing for WN at DFW. Might be good for DFW but
223 Post contains links Akizidy214 : Name one route that AA could make a profit on? Remember the Wright Amendment is still in effect. AA could never have a set up at FTW like WN has at L
224 Post contains images Jacobin777 : So what's you're point (in terms of the thread)?
225 Post contains images Airlinespotter : Are you kidding me? what is it with you and DL? I personally like Delta but DELTA IS NOT GOD. So put away your pom poms and atleast reread your state
226 BHMNONREV : I'm not privy to any financial airline info, but from what I have seen posted here yields from LAX to South America are marginal at best. MIA is and
227 QFSYD744 : JFK-EZE JFK-GRU-GIG DFW-EZE DFW-GRU DFW-SCL Everything from Miami??
228 MAH4546 : Rumours have it it might be to Africa, from MIA.
229 TeamAmerica : What has the Wright Amendment got to do with FTW? The only thing preventing AA from serving there (if they had wanted to) was a gentleman's agreement
230 AA767400 : At it again are we? Out of ALL the routes you mentioned only one is recent. DFW-EZE is at least 2yrs old. It is the only one on your list that was st
231 QFSYD744 : Again, you didnt read the previous posts. I am well aware AA has been flying these routes for years. In addition I can remember for a while AA operat
232 Post contains images Akizidy214 : Answer a question with a question. But here is your answer....everything! In the 1960's the FAA refused to continue funding municipal airports in Dal
233 Post contains links TeamAmerica : First, you said: which is what prompted my question. I did not "answer with a question", and I used a question rather than just coming out and saying
234 Akizidy214 : As I stated "You only here Love Field because that is where the only airline that refused to move is located...." if AA or any airline operated a pla
235 AA767400 : I think he was implying about any future growth. Again, yes I have. Just like you have implied before that AA is the ONLY airline that starts, and qu
236 QFSYD744 : Mate, believe what you may...[Edited 2006-10-11 20:12:31]
237 TeamAmerica : Wrong and wrong. The Wright Amendment only applied to DAL (Dallas Love Field). It did not apply to FTW (Fort Worth Meacham) or any other airport. As
238 Post contains images AA767400 : I will mate. And I will see you at the next AA bashing thread, with your QF, and Australian flag on.
239 N844AA : I've always wondered what would have happened if WN had tried to operate out of FTW. I'm sure there are fatal flaws I haven't considered, but that see
240 Kanebear : You said (in response to AA blaming DAL and Wright for canceling DFW-LIM) My point is what it has been. The ability to take an action or decision doe
241 MEACEDAR : AA needs to upgrade their fleet, change the F/A uniforms, change there livery, and most important make more international routes. I think they need to
242 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Mate, American Airlines does not operate the MD-90, in addition the 737-400 and 737-500 are much more uncomfortable and about equal in age when compa
243 Wsan581 : American does operate the MD-90's. They have about 10 of them.
244 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Please show us the proof!
245 COERJ145 : They used to, not any more.
246 Post contains links QFSYD744 : The Reno Air days and the MD-90 are long, long gone from American Airlines. http://www.aa.com/content/aboutUs/ou...JMZU1DEQBFFTOVMD?anchorEvent=false
247 Wsan581 : Thanks for the update.
248 777STL : Who doesn't? But capital expenditures require exactly that, that's not conducive to staying out of bankruptcy. And this would increase revenue how? W
249 AA767400 : Remember guys, he is under 15.
250 Post contains images Jacobin777 : None your comments don't make sense...some are almost laughable 1-why would they replace their massive 777 fleet for planes which are much more ineff
251 Akizidy214 : You clearly have no clue. The WA emphasised Love Field because WN didn't feel the need to comply with the compromise. If any other Airline would have
252 BHMNONREV : Yes, AA767400 that's exactly what I was implying, thanks for understanding that. However I guess I guess I wasn't clear enough for some, and for that
253 Jfk777 : MEACEDAR, Yoummust be in love with your local Middle East airlines. Before the recent conflict MEA had nice fleet of A330-200 and A320's, they are a r
254 TeamAmerica : The WA didn't "emphasize" Love Field, it specifically mentions DAL and only DAL. There are no other airports in the area that have jetways in any num
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