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 How Much Does Jet Fuel Weigh?
 Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6434 posts, RR: 30Posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:52:54 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 59265 times:

 Last Monday, while I was waiting at the gate, I was was talking with a NW DC-9 captain at MEM and asked him how much fuel does an average DC-9 burn in an hour. He told me 5000-6000 pounds depending on conditions. I was curious how much fuel it would take to go from DTW-STL, which is a route I frequent. He told me it would take about 9000 pounds. Now here is my question; how much is that in US gallons? How much does one gallon weigh? I am trying to figure out how much fuel it takes to travel from DTW-STL. When I drive it takes me about 38 gallons. (110 gallons once in F-350 with a 460). I want to figure out how many gallons per passenger, assuming it is full, the flight takes. This figure would be different for a DC-9-30/40/50.
 My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 Newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 27 Reply 1, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:57:41 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 59250 times:

 I don't know the density of jet fuel, but I know a gallon of water weights about 8.3 pounds. It should be somewhere close to there. Harry
 Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 Dogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:59:08 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 59250 times:

 Heya, 9000 pounds = 1326.46 Gallons = 4050kg 1 Gallon = 6.79 pounds Thanks Mike
 M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2258 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 21:38:44 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 59182 times:

 Yup. 6.8 lbs pg is the round number we always used.
 Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 Widebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 66 Reply 4, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 22:05:37 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 59134 times:

 Interestingly enough the density of Jet-A varies significantly around the world. The places in the world with the highest typical fuel density is on the US East and West coast and the lowest density fuel is found in Southeast and Australiasia. For each individual flight operation fuel density is measured and density is calculated, then the appropriate amount is metered into the aircrafts fuel tanks. As I said fuel density vaires by region and typically can range from 6.55 to 6.80 lbs/USG. That is a huge variation in required fuel volume when you consider that a .1/b/USG variation means a difference of up to 1,000 gallons on a 747 loaded up for a 6,000nm trip! -widebodyphotog
 If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 Nonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 434 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 22:20:23 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 59099 times:

 We use 6.7
 MPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1057 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 22:41:58 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 59058 times:

 so I also have question, I have heard talk of varing densities of jet fuel offering varing performance so how much variation is there in that number like is it always within .1lbs or is it more signifigant than that.
 One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 Vimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1538 posts, RR: 14 Reply 7, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 23:06:09 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 59017 times:

 Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 4):Interestingly enough the density of Jet-A varies significantly around the world. The places in the world with the highest typical fuel density is on the US East and West coast and the lowest density fuel is found in Southeast and Australiasia.

To add to what Widebodyphotog has stated, weight of fuel varies from place to place and is dependent on its specific gravity. As an approximation 1000kgs of Jet-A1 is equivalent to 1251 liters.

rgds//Vimanav

 Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 Lono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted Sun Oct 1 2006 23:12:47 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 58993 times:

 Quoting M404 (Reply 3):Yup. 6.8 lbs pg is the round number we always used

 Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 5):We use 6.7

6.5...6.6....6.7...6.8..... all the way up to 7.0...... depending on the outside temperature

 Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 DualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1041 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 02:05:37 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 58877 times:

 A quick way to convert from pounds to gallons is to take ten percent of the total number of pounds, then take half of that and add it to the ten percent. You will be extremely close. Ex - 4000lbs. 10% = 400. Half of that is 200. Adding them together yields 600 gallons. Taking the calculator and dividing 4000 by 6.7 gives me 597 gallons. So while it isn't exact you get pretty darn close.
 There's no known cure for stupid
 N231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 03:21:47 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 58805 times:

 Close to 100LL, which weighs approximately 6 pounds per gallon.
 CPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 279 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 03:25:35 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 58792 times:

 I do beleive, that the temperature of the Jet-A, plays a significant role. Regards
 Memphis From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 04:43:35 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 58725 times:

 At my other job, I often get to fuel Flight 58, a DC-10 MEM-AMS. The following is from the fuel receipt from the day that I had the highest total once fueling was completed: STA: MEM A/C: 1237 Flight: 58 16 Sept. 06 Dispatch-------------------Before-------------After 40100-------Left Wing-------9850------------40250 55300-------Upper Aux.---------0------------56600 64400-------Center----------9700------------63500 40100-------Right Wing------9750------------40400 Totals---199900lbs.-------------------24300lbs.--------200750lbs. Fuel Density: 6.60 Total U.S. Gallons: 25934 Time Begin: 17:14 Time End 18:12 The center tank almost always shuts off (tops out) early, therefore we add the remaining to the upper aux. We have a 400 lb. overshoot window for the NWA narrow-body A/C in MEM. We usually try to give them a little more than what they want, no complaints so far! On the 10, we usually give 400 -1200 more than what they dispatched.
 nocturnal
 JetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2726 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 05:33:22 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 58649 times:

The places in the world with the highest typical fuel density is on the US East and West coast and the lowest density fuel is found in Southeast and Australiasia.

In Sydney, Australia, we get the density of fuel in metric units. With the first airline I worked for, we used to have large folders with fuelling charts written for a number of Jet A-1 densities from 0.76 - 0.84 kg/L. In reality, the density usually ranged between 0.785 - 0.805 kg/L.

With my current airline, we get sent a fax with the density for the day. This again rarely goes outside the range of 0.785 - 0.805 kg/L. A good ball-park figure for the density of Jet A-1 in metric units would be 0.795 kg/L

 Quoting Memphis (Reply 12): At my other job, I often get to fuel Flight 58, a DC-10 MEM-AMS. The following is from the fuel receipt from the day that I had the highest total once fueling was completed

Yep, the job I found most interesting was fuelling B744's for long trans-Pacific flights from SYD to LAX. This would often require a departure fuel load of about 175 tonnes (385,175 lbs), which made for a 165 tonne (363,165 lbs) uplift. It was a real test of your skill if you could fill each tank to the exact amount required. In this situation, you also had to fill the Horizontal Stabiliser Tank (HST) which was an additional challenge.

The true test of your skill, and the most satisfying result was the situation where you managed to fuel the plane to 100kg (201 lbs) above the final fuel required, with a discrepancy less than 100 Kg   . The pilots were happy for two reasons, it meant they would be right on MTOW a few minutes after engine start, and the aircraft fuel system was almost in exact agreement with the fuelling truck.

[Edited 2006-10-02 05:42:59]

[Edited 2006-10-02 05:44:39]

[Edited 2006-10-02 05:45:52]

[Edited 2006-10-02 05:47:17]

 JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
 Arffguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 06:31:16 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 58603 times:

 Yes, temperature makes a difference. We usually had 6.70 or 6.75 pounds as an average here in Northern California. When it was cold (30 to 40 degrees F) we could get to 6.80. Sometimes an unusual load would come through that was lighter than that. We would have to take a sample from our trucks before the shift, test it and call some airlines (like United.) Depending on the density, the top off quantity of the tanks would be different and sometimes we could not get the tanks to take the amount the fuel slip specified. That's really a pain when, unlike the above DC-10 story, there were no more tanks to put the fuel in. And if the Volumetric Top Off device (VTO) didn't work or was intentionally overridden then you could get a fuel spill. In certain situations some airlines require the fuel density check to be done at planeside prior to fueling.
 Time to spare, go by air.
 B6DC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 06:34:27 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 58598 times:

 1 pound of jet fuel weighs the same as 1 pound of lead - which coincidentally weighs the same as a pound of feathers
 Wsan581 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 07:07:35 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 58553 times:

 Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 15):1 pound of jet fuel weighs the same as 1 pound of lead - which coincidentally weighs the same as a pound of feathers

 3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 08:12:24 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 58506 times:

 I've heard that fuel density was an issue for the HKG-LHR "eastbound" 777-200LR flight -- apparently the density of fuel available in HKG is not as high as elsewhere. It can definitely be an issue for the very few flights that require max fuel from stations that don't have very high density. Fuel density variations also have an impact on fuel cost, since fuel is sold by volume but required fuel is based on weight.
 Nonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 434 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 11:10:24 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 58430 times:

 Quoting Lono (Reply 8):6.5...6.6....6.7...6.8..... all the way up to 7.0...... depending on the outside temperature

There is no variation in our paperwork it is only 6.7.

 Concentriq From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 368 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 20:14:26 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 58268 times:

 Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 15):1 pound of jet fuel weighs the same as 1 pound of lead - which coincidentally weighs the same as a pound of feathers

haha! Brilliant! I opened this thread to write exactly that! You beat me to it!

I think they are talking about mass vs weight here. As Vimanav correctly pointed out:

 Quoting Vimanav (Reply 7):As an approximation 1000kgs of Jet-A1 is equivalent to 1251 liters

 Mobilis In Mobili
 Charliejag1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 241 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 21:16:52 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 58225 times:

 When I was flying King Airs, we used 6.7 daily. I realize the density does change depending on a number of factors, but this seems like a nice average, at least for the midwest or the US as a whole. Of course, I wasn't flying for an airline, so it wasn't as much of a concern. If I burn a couple thousand gallons in a King Air, the economics are much different than a major airline's daily fuel burn. It takes fuel to carry fuel . . .
 Matt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 21:38:45 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 58199 times:

 you americans should adapt a proper mesurement system.....like metric
 Vivavegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 21:42:01 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 58187 times:

 Quoting Falstaff (Thread starter):Last Monday, while I was waiting at the gate, I was was talking with a NW DC-9 captain at MEM and asked him how much fuel does an average DC-9 burn in an hour. He told me 5000-6000 pounds depending on conditions. I was curious how much fuel it would take to go from DTW-STL, which is a route I frequent. He told me it would take about 9000 pounds. Now here is my question; how much is that in US gallons? How much does one gallon weigh? I am trying to figure out how much fuel it takes to travel from DTW-STL. When I drive it takes me about 38 gallons. (110 gallons once in F-350 with a 460). I want to figure out how many gallons per passenger, assuming it is full, the flight takes. This figure would be different for a DC-9-30/40/50.

 Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 2): 9000 pounds = 1326.46 Gallons = 4050kg 1 Gallon = 6.79 pounds

Anyone care to help fill in the below???....

So rough costs for your DTW-STL trip is as follows???

1,327 gallons @ \$2.00/gal? = \$2654.00
Crew 2hr block (\$160x2cockpit, \$30x3cabin x 2 hours) = \$820.00
Landing Fees = ??
Lease? = Nothing
Hull Insurance = ??
Ground Crew (amitorized) = ??

So would it be safe to say that 2 hour flight with say 70 out of the 100 seats filled would cost \$71.42 to fly from DTW-STL? (based on estimated \$5000 hard costs)?

It's lilke taking my college economics classes all over again....

Craig
MKE

 MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 TWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 663 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted Mon Oct 2 2006 23:21:53 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 58119 times:

 Quoting DualQual (Reply 9):A quick way to convert from pounds to gallons is to take ten percent of the total number of pounds, then take half of that and add it to the ten percent. You will be extremely close. Ex - 4000lbs. 10% = 400. Half of that is 200. Adding them together yields 600 gallons. Taking the calculator and dividing 4000 by 6.7 gives me 597 gallons. So while it isn't exact you get pretty darn close.

Just as quick is taking the fuel in pounds, divide in half then add that back into the original lbs then drop the last zero.
Ex: half of 15000 lbs is 7500...added back into it is 22500...drop the last zero and the result is 2250 gallons.
If you take 15000 divided by 6.7 you get 2238 gallons...pretty close huh.

Otherwise, most airlines use 6.7 or have a hydrometer get the density down to the hundredths (i.e. 6.69 ) even further...some airlines want the temperature of the fuel figured in too.

KD

 OldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3835 posts, RR: 66 Reply 24, posted Tue Oct 3 2006 07:31:38 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 58012 times:

 A lot of airline flight planning departments in Southeast Asia and Australia use 6.4 lbs/gal when developing airplane performance. This is based on the low end fuel densities in their part of the world.
 Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted Tue Oct 3 2006 08:38:06 UTC (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 57989 times:

 Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 21):you americans should adapt a proper mesurement system.....like metric

Yes, should definitely drop proper English units for those French ones like you guys did.

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