Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
When Will SA Need To Renew It's Fleet?  
User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

I have seen on here comments about future fleet plans of major international carriers. However, I notice not too much comments about SA. I know they have a beautiful A340 fleet which are probably young but does anyone know any thing about SA future fleet update plans? or is too early. I was happy to hear that SA will be preserving another 747, I hope one day we will see a 747-8 in their colors. Thank you.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 969 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
I know they have a beautiful A340 fleet which are probably young but does anyone know any thing about SA future fleet update plans? or is too early.

Between the A340s, the A320s and the 73NGs, I think SA has done a pretty good job of renewing their fleet already. Just a replacement for the 747s, and they should be well taken care of after that. I think your idea of the 748 is pretty good, but I don't see them being the first to order the pax version.


User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1591 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

SA has stated it's desire to become all-Airbus (but that may well have changed, originally the 744's were supposed to be gone last year, but they're still there)


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

There was a link posted the other day about a Boeing Presentation that mentioned the 787-10. The front cover of the presentation was of Cape Town.

I read a little bit and it seemed to be a presentation geared toward sales in Africa. I don't know if SA would go for the 787-8 but maybe they might look at the 772LR, 748i or 787-10 for further US expansion and replacement of 744s.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

At current, SAA is most likely much more interested in getting it's finances under control again, which is also why they cancelled some of their A320-series deliveries a while back.

I wouldn't expect any aircraft orders from them for the time being - which isn't really necessary anyhow, as their fleet is quite modern and in no need to be replaced anyhow.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Depends who is in control of the airline.

After the fiasco of the last few years when they ordered Airbus, then changed to Boeing when that septic tank was in charge for a while, only to go back to Airbus again must have cost the airline a fortune !!.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

I still think they should get rid of the A342s, and get the highest MTOW A332 version (262 tonnes???) Will do CPT/JNB non-stop to Europe. Use the A346s to LHR, IAD, JFK and FRA, and A332s on the rest. When they get their A343s back off Jet, they can use them on the A346 routes. Perhaps get four or five A388s, and use them on the LHR run. All A319/320 short-haul fleet.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
When they get their A343s back off Jet,

Thats how their making money. The A342's defintely need replacement and you have a variety of a/c that can replace them. I don't know how many, but 10 A332 should do it.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
I still think they should get rid of the A342s,

The entire A342 fleet’s J-class is being upgraded to flatbeds, with the last refitted bird expected out before year end. With this in mind I doubt you will see any A330’s in SA colours soon.

The airline is financially not in a very favorable position to obtain further planes at this stage. Word is also out that the airline is in no hurry to get rid of the remaining 6x 744’s currently in service with the airline.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
but 10 A332 should do it.

Since they only have 6 A340-200s, that would be more than they need.

I agree that A332s would most likely be better for them, but I just don't see that happening anytime soon... just as with A380s (which they certainly could fill rather easily on some routes), which I do not expect to see in SAA ordering for several years, if, indeed, at all...  Sad

As for the short-haul fleet, I certainly would prefer it if they'd standardize on the A319/A320 - but I don't expect any change before the leases on the B738s run out... although... wasn't there something about GATX getting out of the leasing business? I think that's who SAA leases from... maybe that'll influence the whole thing as well...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineTR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 261 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

Apart from JNB/CPT to London, on what routes are the 747-400s used on?

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Quoting TR1 (Reply 10):
Apart from JNB/CPT to London, on what routes are the 747-400s used on?

I think HARDIW just posted a couple of days ago that they'll be used to GRU soon.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4267 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting TR1 (Reply 10):
Apart from JNB/CPT to London, on what routes are the 747-400s used on?

JNB-LOS
JNB-LAD
JNB-GRU


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 12):
JNB-LAD

 Wow!

Is that used as a time-filler between longhauls? Or a reaction to TAAG using B747s on the Jo'burg route? Or is demand really that high?



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

the demand between JNB-LAD is extremely high. All the flights on Angola or SAA are always over sold. There is a huge demand for transit passengers from GRU going to Angola. Angola and Brazil remains extremely close due to the former colonial influence with language and culture.
Just make sure you get your yellow fever shot prior to arrival or you will have to pony up US$30 at the airport or send back.



747SP
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4203 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Leskova (Reply 13):
Or is demand really that high?

Some dates in December on SA (JNB-LAD) are already sold out to such an extent that only full Y-fares are available. IMHO USD1100 per Y-class pax for a 2485km flight is not too shabby in terms of revenue.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineNZ8800 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

That's fascinating about Luanda... I'm far away from Africa but that city and country have so many travel warnings on them from various governments... maybe it is safer than it is portrayed to be? Otherwise I can't see why so many people would go... Perhaps someone can enlighten me!


MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2881 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

I have one question ??--
why do they operate both A319/320s as well as 737-800s in their fleet would not that make the crew costs real expensive.--how many of each do they operate.[Sorry if this has already been discussed before--if so please direct me to that thread as it dint come up in a search]

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 8):
The entire A342 fleet’s J-class is being upgraded to flatbeds, with the last refitted bird expected out before year end. With this in mind I doubt you will see any A330’s in SA colours soon.

Thanks for the information on the update--could you also be kind enough to tell us if the economy class cabin will be upgraded with PTVs or is it just a Biz class upgrade.

Karan


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 17):
why do they operate both A319/320s as well as 737-800s in their fleet would not that make the crew costs real expensive.

It's a result of several acquisitions - before the fleet modernisation began, SAA had a fleet of B732s and A320s; they then decided that they wanted to buy around 20 120-to-180-seaters... ending up with a fleet of B738s.

Then, after a change of CEO, the decision was taken to have a complete fleet-rollover to Airbus, thus replacing the B732s and B738s with A319-A321s (though I'm not absolutely certain they had A321s on order, though I think I remember something about that type also being ordered).

In any case, management problems at SAA continued, and one CEO later, the decision was taken that taking deliveries of all ordered Airbusses would, currently, simply be too expensive for SAA, so some deliveries were cancelled (or deferred), leaving SAA with a fleet of A319s/A320s and B732s/B738s (though I think the B732s are either already completely gone, or very close to being gone).



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4138 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 17):
Thanks for the information on the update--could you also be kind enough to tell us if the economy class cabin will be upgraded with PTVs or is it just a Biz class upgrade.

Y-class will remain in the old LH-config with no changes. The only changes being made are in J-class.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 17):
why do they operate both A319/320s as well as 737-800s in their fleet would not that make the crew costs real expensive.--how many of each do they operate.[Sorry if this has already been discussed before--if so please direct me to that thread as it dint come up in a search]

SA took delivery of and currently operate 21x 738's and 11x A319's. IIRC the A320's were cancelled mainly due to the airline's massive fuel hedging losses at that time.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4038 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

SA has 738 because in the early 1990 SAA ordered 777's, they were never delivered. SAA ordered Airbus A340's instead. The deposits from the 777 was going to stay with Boeing with no benefit to SAA so the money was applied to the 738 fleet. This all happened when SWISSAIR owned a minority of SAA because 738 are(were) leased from FLIGHTLEASE, a subsidiary of Swissair group. Swissair went bankrupt and sold their stake back to the South African Government.

User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
SA has 738 because...

... Coleman Andrews was CEO at the time... SAA got rid of everything with Airbus on it... The A320's were fine for SAA. They had 6 (ZS-SHA/B/C/D/E/F/G).



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Speedbird 128,

Coleman Andrews was CEO and did get rid of the First bunch of A320 before the much bigger order to Airbus the whole fleet was made. The business about the deposits was from a book written "JETLAG" by Denis Beckett describing the Coleman Andres era fron 1998 to 2001 at SAA. The deposit was for $30,000,000 dollars, for 4 777. the deposit would have been Boeing on 12/31/00 if the 737-800 were not ordered.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

JFK777,

At the end of the day - many, many millions were wasted, by an airline that hardly is ever (if ever) out of the red. Just look at the mess with their involvement with Air Tanzania.

30mil deposit for the 777's converted to 19 738s? Hardly a big percentage, and to be honest, if SAA lost that 30million to Boeing by not taking those 777's, the airline would have save much more than by taking the -800's, and then going on to get A319's (and ordering and then cancelling the A320's). The Airbus spares, pilot ratings & aircraft engineer ratings and sim would probably have amounted to more.

Somebody was on the make. They could rather have negotiated for using the deposit against an additional 744. Or it could have been used for the BBJ the Gov went on to get.

But anyway, I am not a CEO of an airline, merely a person of which 40% of my salary is used by the goverment to fund the mistakes (?) of others lining their nest.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

What should be the advantage of replacing 257tons A342s with 233tons A332s?

The A342 in combination with the A343/346 is not that bad in ops costs at all.

AND you do not need ETOPS on the european routes!!!

 Smile


25 Post contains images N328KF : I'm guessing SA would want their next move to be an A380 order. However, I don't see that happening any time soon.
26 CHRISBA777ER : Far lower fuel burn and associated trip costs with the A330??
27 Kappel : There was some talk a while ago that they wanted to lease 2 (IIRC) a380's. So who knows what might happen when the damn thing finally enters service.
28 Post contains images Johnny : @CHRISBA777ER YES, BUT ALSO LESS PAYLOAD... But i agree.The A332 could work for them.AFAIK the has one or two already ops by BMI.
29 CHRISBA777ER : Pax capacity will be the same as the A332, and the 260T A332 wont lose much to the A342 over a Europe - SA sector. But like Keppel says, ownership cos
30 SA7700 : The A332's was wet leased (IIRC) from BD in 2004. The planes have since been returned to BD. Rgds SA7700
31 Post contains images Johnny : "Pax capacity will be the same as the A332, and the 260T A332 wont lose much to the A342 over a Europe - SA sector. " Chris, there is no 260tons-versi
32 CHRISBA777ER : I thought they came as 252, 256, and 260 t versions. *scratchy head* How have i got confused with that?
33 Post contains images Johnny : Hmm, no idea. Maybe i am wrong, but i thought: 217,230,233tons... Who can help us, please ? johnny
34 Post contains links Leskova : Airbus seems to agree with you... http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfam...0a340/a330-300/specifications.html http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfam...0a
35 Swissgabe : Two 744 left the fleet around January 2006. If not mistaken, they are going to CX as Cargo plane. Depending on the route, 342 are much cheaper to ope
36 SAA201 : Negative, the flight (SA060/1) operates JNB-LOS-JNB on days 2,3,5&7! IIRC the 777 deposits were used to buy 2 the GE engined B744's (ZS-SBK&S) which
37 B747-437B : ACC is now paired with ABJ routing JNB-ABJ-ACC-JNB on days 1,3,5 using an A342. The 744 hasn't been seen in ACC since the IAD flight was moved to DKR
38 Post contains links SAA201 : Stumbled upon this article today: Long-haul flights need more planes - SAA boss http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=561&fArticleId=3471137
39 Kappel : Well, airbus has some a346's they would like to sell at rock-bottom prices... Not only will EK most likely never take delivery of them, neither will
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Lithuanian Airlines To Renew It's Fleet With 737 posted Fri Feb 14 2003 22:14:49 by Sonic
When Will Song Begin To Reconfigure Their Planes? posted Thu Feb 23 2006 05:20:51 by DL4EVR
When Will EK Come To GVA? posted Tue Oct 25 2005 19:21:39 by RootsAir
AA Power Ports: What Do I Need To Use It? posted Mon May 2 2005 00:56:16 by Usa4624
When Will DHL Move To LEJ posted Fri Mar 25 2005 04:14:48 by RampRat74
Will KLM Continue To Maintain It's Own Identity? posted Tue Jul 27 2004 03:30:04 by John
When Will FlyI Come To FLL? posted Fri Jul 9 2004 08:46:42 by Jetpixx
JAT To Renew Its Fleet; Boeing Main Candidate! posted Wed Apr 7 2004 09:16:33 by Sobelair
When Will Frontier Return To The NE? posted Fri Aug 22 2003 21:52:53 by JumboBumbo
When Will QF's B 747-200s Leave The Fleet? posted Mon Sep 23 2002 10:23:24 by United Airline