Bruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4991 posts, RR: 20 Posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1951 times:
A small story I read today about an AA md-80 jet having to land due to smoke in cockpit at Bryce Canyon Airport in Utah - a small strip! They landed safely but aren't sure how to get the jet out of there. The video we showed looked funny seeing the (big) md-80 on the taxiway surrounded by little Cessnas & Pipers & G.A. aircraft.
How can a loaded MD80 land on a short runway but not be able to take off, unloaded? It seems to me that the landing would be the hard part & it would be easy to take off with a minimal load, right??
Bruce Leibowitz - Birmingham, AL (BHM/KBHM) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
Trvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 28 Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1858 times:
I heard the Bryce Canyon airstrip was over 7000 feet long. If it was, the only restrictions may come from the height of the airport then (Bryce Canyon National Park is 4-5000 above sea level)
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1829 times:
7400 x 75 ft. is the offical runway dimensions and the alt is 7500 feet.. any mad dawg guys out there that could run the numbers and see if it could be ferried out with min fuel no pax etc
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7593 posts, RR: 22 Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1823 times:
An MD-80 can take off in that field length... DCA and LGA are 6800 and 7000 feet repsectively. However at 7000+ feet in altitude that is going to be tight. I suppose an early departure with minimal fuel it could be ferried to SLC (the closest major airport I believe) and have the tanks topped off to return to DFW.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
24291 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1813 times:
Hi folks,
There's lots more to take into account than length. As Trvlr pointed out, altitude plays a role, but there are other factors that must be taken into account, particularly terrain/obstruction clearance and runway gradient and condition, etc, not to mention ground facilities and the like needed to get the aircraft ready for departure.
In this situation, AA would have their ops people get the data on it before authorizing a crew to take off. Under certain circumstances they may even need a contingency team out there.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7593 posts, RR: 22 Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1795 times:
I looked at some photographs of the airport in question and terrain does not appear to be an immediate issue off of either end of the runway. I am 99% sure they could get it out of there and ferry it to a more suitable airport.
What happens if they can't get it out safely? Write it off?
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
LordOfTheFlys From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1775 times:
It will be on the 10 pm news tonight in Utah, I live in Salt Lake. From what I have heard they took all the chairs out, and just about anything not part of the plane itself. I guess they can get a waiver from the FAA on the fuel reserve requirements to free up more weight.
Same thing happened a while back to a 737 (I think). It landed at Salt lake #2. A very small non-controlled airport about 7 miles South-West of Salt Lake Int. Apparently the pilots confused #2 with SL Int. The runway their is about 5860'x100'.
Fqtv From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 153 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1762 times:
Do any of you see this changing AA's policy on smoke-in-cockpit emergency landings? Will pilots be told to fly a little further to get to an airport that the plane can easily leave again, or will the (somewhat new) rule to land as soon as possible stick?
Cheers, fqtv
Bruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4991 posts, RR: 20 Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1759 times:
Well, they might make it but there sure wouldn't be any room for error! They'll need a very experienced pilot because I don't think they can abort - no room to spare!
Bruce Leibowitz - Birmingham, AL (BHM/KBHM) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3342 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1746 times:
Departure will be a piece of cake. 7000 feet is way more than enough at even highest certified elevations (8000'). Hard part is turning acft around in only 75' wide runway.
Will pilots be told to fly a little further? Not hardly. Safety, not expense is the single consideration.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7593 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1735 times:
Where would they ferry it to??? SLC, LAS??? Or could they take it all the way to Dallas?
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1731 times:
What about the other concerns logisticly, You have to defuel it. I noticed there was someone that sold jet-a on the field so that may or may not be a problem . You have to truck over 100 seats back to DFW , not to mention fix what caused the smoke. I notcied the runway is only rated for 3,000 lbs per wheel up there.. Im sure the FAA has no choice but to waive that. If it was outside the window does anyone think AA would over power the engines and then tear them down or would parting it out be a better option?
Zartan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1712 times:
I was on a 747 that had to emergency land somewhere in Ohio due to a passenger that had a stroke and fell out of her seat en route. We landed fine and everything, but couldn't take off for hours because there was no tug big enough to push us back from the gate. We had to wait several hours which they drove one down the freeway from a UPS facility in another city.
That was an odd experience. Once they got the tug there, we pushed back fine and flew right out.
So sometimes it's not the runway that's the problem, as mentioned above, its the auxiliary equipment and the rest of the situation.
LordOfTheFlys From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1697 times:
The news reported it as taking off earlier today. The fact that they took off mid-day makes me think they were not too worried about the aircraft having enough runway. If AA felt the A/C was in jeopardy of not getting off in time they would have waited for the temperature to be at its lowest, and if needed be, wait for a strong headwind.
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3342 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1674 times:
>You have to defuel it.
Why? The remainder of fuel onboard --enough to get to LAX+alternate+reserve-- is not enough to cause weight problem for takeoff for the MD80.
>You have to truck over 100 seats back to DFW,
Why would you remove them in the first place?
>If it was outside the window does anyone think AA would over power the
>engines and then tear them down or would parting it out be a better option?
At a million dollars (or more) per overhaul, not bloody likely. There is no "over power" setting for the JT8-217/219 engines anyway.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
Bruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4991 posts, RR: 20 Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1629 times:
This makes me wonder if a jet has ever landed at an airport that it couldn't take off from again - in one piece.
does anyone have any stories?
Bruce Leibowitz - Birmingham, AL (BHM/KBHM) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
Timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6228 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1600 times:
I was surprised to read that the MD80 was not certified for airports above 8000 ft MSL. Can they get a waiver (or something) to fly into Quito or La Paz? Are other jets certified this low?
Pilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1591 times:
Do a search for "Getting Stuck" a topic line that address the very thing that you've asked.
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