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Garuda And The MD-11  
User currently offlineCaliforniaMate From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 99 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8064 times:

Wikipedia says that Garuda once had 12(!) MD-11s. What happened? Why did GA get rid of them so soon without a real replacement (they only have 6 A333). Did they just not have enough routes that require the aircraft? And on a sidenote, now that GA has stopped flying lots of their longhaul flights, what have they been using the 744 for?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8016 times:

Quoting CaliforniaMate (Thread starter):

To begin with, Wikipedia data aren't always very reliable. GA have operated itself or leased 18 MD-11s over the years. They received between 1991 and 1993 six new MD-11 on lease from GPA (Guiness Peat Aviation leasing company from Ireland) which went bust later (correct me if wrong). GA disposed of them between 1996 and 1998. From what I remember, there were problems with the contract linking the airline with GPA. GA later (1996/97) got three MD-11ER new to replace the first that had left the fleet. These MD-11ER didn't lasted very long as the Asian crisis struck the region. It is at this time that GA decided to stop serving Europe and reduce its fleet. The three MD-11ER were returned to Boeing in 1998.

Outside of these nine MD-11s used for regular services, GA also leased one from Finnair as well as 4 MD-11, 2 MD-11CF & 2 MD-11ER on lease from WO during Hadj pilgrim flights.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6966 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7835 times:

The 744s are being used to fly Mid-East routes and also some Asia Pacific routes on a rotation basis.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7744 times:

The MD11s were mainly used to serve the extensive European network that Garuda once served and which included destinations like Amsterdam, London, Frankfurt, Zurich, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Berlin, Athens, Vienna, and Brussels.

Starting in 1996, Garuda has gradually dismantled that European network as the MD11s left the fleet. As from 2000, Garuda operated 9 weekly services to Europe with B744s, serving only AMS, LGW and FRA. Later, LGW and FRA were given up and AMS was the last remaining European station, until also that route was given up in late 2004.

As for the 3 B744 frames which are currently in the active fleet, those aircraft currently operate the airlines Middle Eastern network - JED, RUH and DMM - and the daily CGK-NRT-DPS-CGK rotation. The B744s can also often be spotted at HKG.


User currently offlineCrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1955 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7540 times:

In the final MD-11 days at Garuda, they also operated on the LAX-DPS-CGK route.

User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7528 times:

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 4):
In the final MD-11 days at Garuda, they also operated on the LAX-DPS-CGK route

Wasnt the routing CGK-DPS-XXX-HNL-LAX?

Other former Garuda MD-11 routes included:

CGK-DPS-SYD
CGK-SYD
CGK-DPS-MEL
CGK-DPS-NRT
CGK-NRT
CGK-BKK-FCO
CGK-BKK-ZRH
CGK-HKG
CGK-DPS-HKG

CGK-XXX-LGW
CGK-XXX-CDG
CGK-XXX-FRA

[Edited 2006-10-03 06:42:11]

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7500 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):
Wasnt the routing CGK-DPS-XXX-HNL-LAX?

It was CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX, BIK being Biak Island in Indonesia, just off the main Papua Island. At different times the BIK was skipped and sometimes the flight went nonstop between DPS and HNL.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):
CGK-DPS-SYD
CGK-SYD
CGK-DPS-MEL
CGK-DPS-NRT
CGK-NRT
CGK-BKK-FCO
CGK-BKK-ZRH
CGK-HKG
CGK-DPS-HKG

CGK-XXX-LGW
CGK-XXX-CDG
CGK-XXX-FRA

Most of the European routes you are mentioning were combined into multi stop milk runs, with many flights stopping over in AUH. Sometimes these flights were also operated with B742 or B744.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

The GA Md11's also used to fly to AKL aswell from i think late 1996 till early 1998.

User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7362 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
It was CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX, BIK being Biak Island in Indonesia, just off the main Papua Island. At different times the BIK was skipped and sometimes the flight went nonstop between DPS and HNL.

HB-IWC,

As soon as the MD-11s were introduced on the LAX routes, the stop in
BIK was eliminated. Initially they were routed CGK/DPS/HNL/LAX/HNL/DPS/CGK but that was changed to CGK/HNL/LAX northbound, with the stop in DPS still in effect on the southbound leg. Both the DC10-30 and the B742Combi stopped enroute at BIK but not the MD-11's



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7173 times:

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1):
From what I remember, there were problems with the contract linking the airline with GPA.

In fact, the problems weren't between GPA and Garuda, but between McDonnell Douglas and GPA. According to some articles from Flight International in 1993, there was a "long-running between leasing company GPA and MDC over MD-11s for Garuda that has escalated into a fully fledged legal battle, following an exchange of lawsuits between the two companies."

"Douglas Aircraft has filed a suit against GPA for $550 millioon for failing to complete five MD-11 orders. GPA has filed a counter suit claiming that the three MD-11s received to date are 3,000kg overweight and uneconomical to operate."

Finally, GA took delivery of three aircraft directly from MDC, which had arranged an alternative financing, rather than going through the joint-venture it had set-up with GPA, namely GPA Aero Citra.

The dispute between MDC and GPA about the Garuda MD-11s was apparently only one of three.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7114 times:
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Garuda had a great history with the MD-11, I saw them at LAX. The thought of going LAX-HNL-BAli in one though is another matter, it close to 22 hours. Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6966 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7105 times:

Interesting info on GPA... I heard that the A330s were initially leased through GPA or GPA AeroCitra... Any info on those?

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineSvenvdM From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1):
To begin with, Wikipedia data aren't always very reliable.

"The free online resource Wikipedia is about as accurate on science as the Encyclopedia Britannica, a study shows."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm


User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.

...but most of the demand for flights to Southeast Asia is from the West Coast. GA would have failed miserably in NYC. As it was, their LA flights served mostly served ethnic Indonesians (the main populations of which are in the LA area) and package tourists going to Bali.



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6847 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.

JFK777

There was a plan at one time to start service to JFK, but it never was materialized. Los Angeles has the largest population of Indonesians in the world outside of Indonesia and Holland, and that was part of the decision to start service there rather than JFK.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
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