CaliforniaMate From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 99 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5804 times:
Wikipedia says that Garuda once had 12(!) MD-11s. What happened? Why did GA get rid of them so soon without a real replacement (they only have 6 A333). Did they just not have enough routes that require the aircraft? And on a sidenote, now that GA has stopped flying lots of their longhaul flights, what have they been using the 744 for?
To begin with, Wikipedia data aren't always very reliable. GA have operated itself or leased 18 MD-11s over the years. They received between 1991 and 1993 six new MD-11 on lease from GPA (Guiness Peat Aviation leasing company from Ireland) which went bust later (correct me if wrong). GA disposed of them between 1996 and 1998. From what I remember, there were problems with the contract linking the airline with GPA. GA later (1996/97) got three MD-11ER new to replace the first that had left the fleet. These MD-11ER didn't lasted very long as the Asian crisis struck the region. It is at this time that GA decided to stop serving Europe and reduce its fleet. The three MD-11ER were returned to Boeing in 1998.
Outside of these nine MD-11s used for regular services, GA also leased one from Finnair as well as 4 MD-11, 2 MD-11CF & 2 MD-11ER on lease from WO during Hadj pilgrim flights.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5484 times:
The MD11s were mainly used to serve the extensive European network that Garuda once served and which included destinations like Amsterdam, London, Frankfurt, Zurich, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Berlin, Athens, Vienna, and Brussels.
Starting in 1996, Garuda has gradually dismantled that European network as the MD11s left the fleet. As from 2000, Garuda operated 9 weekly services to Europe with B744s, serving only AMS, LGW and FRA. Later, LGW and FRA were given up and AMS was the last remaining European station, until also that route was given up in late 2004.
As for the 3 B744 frames which are currently in the active fleet, those aircraft currently operate the airlines Middle Eastern network - JED, RUH and DMM - and the daily CGK-NRT-DPS-CGK rotation. The B744s can also often be spotted at HKG.
Crownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1594 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5280 times:
In the final MD-11 days at Garuda, they also operated on the LAX-DPS-CGK route.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5240 times:
Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5): Wasnt the routing CGK-DPS-XXX-HNL-LAX?
It was CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX, BIK being Biak Island in Indonesia, just off the main Papua Island. At different times the BIK was skipped and sometimes the flight went nonstop between DPS and HNL.
Most of the European routes you are mentioning were combined into multi stop milk runs, with many flights stopping over in AUH. Sometimes these flights were also operated with B742 or B744.
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1476 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5102 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6): It was CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX, BIK being Biak Island in Indonesia, just off the main Papua Island. At different times the BIK was skipped and sometimes the flight went nonstop between DPS and HNL.
HB-IWC,
As soon as the MD-11s were introduced on the LAX routes, the stop in
BIK was eliminated. Initially they were routed CGK/DPS/HNL/LAX/HNL/DPS/CGK but that was changed to CGK/HNL/LAX northbound, with the stop in DPS still in effect on the southbound leg. Both the DC10-30 and the B742Combi stopped enroute at BIK but not the MD-11's
Magyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4913 times:
Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1): From what I remember, there were problems with the contract linking the airline with GPA.
In fact, the problems weren't between GPA and Garuda, but between McDonnell Douglas and GPA. According to some articles from Flight International in 1993, there was a "long-running between leasing company GPA and MDC over MD-11s for Garuda that has escalated into a fully fledged legal battle, following an exchange of lawsuits between the two companies."
"Douglas Aircraft has filed a suit against GPA for $550 millioon for failing to complete five MD-11 orders. GPA has filed a counter suit claiming that the three MD-11s received to date are 3,000kg overweight and uneconomical to operate."
Finally, GA took delivery of three aircraft directly from MDC, which had arranged an alternative financing, rather than going through the joint-venture it had set-up with GPA, namely GPA Aero Citra.
The dispute between MDC and GPA about the Garuda MD-11s was apparently only one of three.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7345 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4854 times:
Garuda had a great history with the MD-11, I saw them at LAX. The thought of going LAX-HNL-BAli in one though is another matter, it close to 22 hours. Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.
LH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4690 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10): Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.
...but most of the demand for flights to Southeast Asia is from the West Coast. GA would have failed miserably in NYC. As it was, their LA flights served mostly served ethnic Indonesians (the main populations of which are in the LA area) and package tourists going to Bali.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1476 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10): Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.
JFK777
There was a plan at one time to start service to JFK, but it never was materialized. Los Angeles has the largest population of Indonesians in the world outside of Indonesia and Holland, and that was part of the decision to start service there rather than JFK.
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