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Comair Unlikely To Retain DCI Flying.  
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8156 times:

I did a search and didn't see this posted...

In a new memo to employees this morning, President Don Bornhorst said Comair's response to Delta's RFP for components of its Delta Connection flying will be based in part on pilot costs that have not been restructured and that reflect where we are in negotiations. Comair's bid is due to Delta today, Monday, October 2.

"Today marks the deadline for Comair's response to Delta's request for proposal for components of its Delta Connection flying, including flying on 70- and 50-seat jets currently in our fleet. In communications last week, I said it was "highly unlikely" that Comair would be in a position to submit a competitive bid because we have not completed our restructuring with our organized labor groups. We have made little progress on our pilot negotiations since that time, and we will be forced to reply with pilot costs that have not been restructured and that reflect where we are in negotiations. This certainly will not win new aircraft nor retain the existing fleet."

"Despite discussions held over the weekend with ALPA, we have made little progress toward achieving competitive pilot costs and, as a result, will be bidding with contract terms that actually increase our cost disadvantage and almost certainly prevent us from winning or retaining flying," according to the memo.

The memo goes on to thank those employees and pilots that have made sacrifices and stuck with Comair through this time. It also mentions that Comair will continue to look for growth in areas that we have a quality product and competitive costs, such as Maintenance and Airport Customer Service operations.

I guess I personally would say to those arrogant pilots and flight attendants that thought they didn't deserve a cut that I hope you find unemployment more conducive to your daily life, since we obviously won't be needing you all much past November.

[Edited 2006-10-02 18:00:13]


Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Does this mean that Comair will be liquidated?


/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7999 times:

I have the same question as Zone 1 - this morning Cincinnati Enquirer tone was OH would lose flying. Obviously, this article was written prior to this mornings memo. Are those DL jets and can they be redeploy accordingly?

User currently offlineAkjetBlue From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 790 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7948 times:

Well I ahve a little experience with OH and know a little...

Now OH stared as a commuter carrier and then decided to buy the CRJ - this was before Big D bought Comair outright. So some of the CRJs may belong to Comair Holdings - the 70 seaters however would prob have been purchased by Big D.

Big question is how many CRJs they do own - will they downsize? operate for another airline? take the indy air route?



Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7938 times:

In answer to your question of liquidation, no. Of our fleet, the aircraft that will most likely be leaving include the 70- and 50-seat variants of the CRJ. We will most likely be retaining our 40-seat flying.

Management has made it quite clear that despite the reduction in the fleet, Comair will not cease operations, but rather grow in other sectors. As an example, we have a very well developed maintenance program with maintenance bases in several cities. In addition, our Airport Customer Service is very cost competitive and has a very good reputation. It is likely that the company will grow in those areas by performing maintanance work for other carriers and acting as a ground contractor in some areas.

There are quite a few stations right now that are Comair staffed but receive ASA flights, as has been the case since the last major schedule overhaul. I would expect to see a lot of the stations with Comair personnel remain Comair staffed even if the aircraft flying in are not Comair.

To clarify, the aircraft leaving the fleet are the aircraft owned directly by Delta. There is a portion of the fleet which is owned by Comair- these aircraft Delta has less control over. Looking at it from a business angle it makes perfect sense. Delta owns the aircraft in question, so it makes sense that they'd put the most economical airline in them. We won't be loosing the entire fleet, just those 70- and 50-seaters owned directly by DL. Although I would expect to see some serious job cuts in the areas of Flight Control and In-Flight, as you certainly wouldn't the volume of crews and such that we have now to operate a fleet of half the size.

Don't quote me but the last figures I remember was that we have somewhere in the area of 120 aircraft. Of that 120 I believe somewhere around 50 of them are owned by DL, but as I said don't quote me.

[Edited 2006-10-02 19:32:58]


Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

Can Comair justify keeping the aircraft that are directly controlled by OH if they loose the DCI contract, i.e. are there any other contracts currently inplace that justify keeping those aircraft? I would think it will be almost impossible for OH to secure a contract with another airline given that it cannot put together a competetive DCI bid. It seams to me that the flight crews may have negotiated (or non-negotiated) themselves out of a job.

User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7901 times:

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 4):
We will most likely be retaining our 40-seat flying.

CMR 40 seat flying is doomed. CMR owns now 40 seat aircraft, simply 50 seaters outfitted with only 40 seats. Add to that, I suspect most 50 seat flying will disappear. The 50 seater is no longer cost efficient.


User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 5):
Can Comair justify keeping the aircraft that are directly controlled by OH if they loose the DCI contract

Just to clarify once again, and maybe I should have worded the thread title differently, Comair is not loosing the DCI contract completely as my understanding is, but rather Delta is removing the aircraft they own from the Comair fleet and replacing the operator of those aircraft with a more competitive airline. The complete outcome of this won't be known until November when DL has reviewed the proposals from all of the carriers.

The memo's from management say nothing about us loosing the 40-seat flying, only the 70- and 50-seat flying (on those aircraft owned by Delta).



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7872 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 6):
CMR 40 seat flying is doomed. CMR owns now 40 seat aircraft, simply 50 seaters outfitted with only 40 seats. Add to that, I suspect most 50 seat flying will disappear. The 50 seater is no longer cost efficient.

The point of my previous post was to show that Delta isn't dumping Comair completely (not directly anyway). To be honest I always thought the 40 seaters, which are newer, were the ones owned by DL, but apparently not as management says we're only loosing the 70- and 50-seat flying.

[Edited 2006-10-02 19:45:31]


Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7872 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 6):
The 50 seater is no longer cost efficient.

Sure it is, in the right markets. That's why every major airline flies them. If you do it like DH did, then it's not cost efficient.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 9):
Sure it is, in the right markets.

the number of right markets for the 50 seater is shrinking. The 50 seat RJ will disappear very quickly.


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7826 times:

I don't want to start another argument about unions. But this argument by Comair that the labor groups are at fault is bogus.

I work for a regional airline that also has an "expensive" labor group. The company wants concessions and makes no bones about it. I think the pilot group is willing to be flexible, but not until the company maximises its assets.

Labor is an asset, not a liability, even if it is just an expense on the balance sheet. I am not naive enough to think otherwise.

Why should the pilots give concessions when aspects of the contract which are completely in the control of the company are not optimised? Why do I have 3-hour sits at outstation airports? Why do we have 4-day trips constructed to 16 hours? Do we really need 20-hour layovers? There is no reason a standard 4-day trip cannot be constructed to 20-24 hours of block time and be legal at the end of the month. Doing this would reduce staffing and not require concessions.

When my schedules are built to maximise the contract and FARs and the company still needs help I am more than willing to talk. But until then, forget it.

There is lots of flexibility built into pilot contracts where the company can use us, but for whatever reason (incompetence in schedule planning?) chooses not to.

I feel bad for every company like Comair and Mesaba, where labor is being blamed for something which is not their fault.

I have said before and I will say it again, labor is sometimes their own worst enemy. But to blame them for the financial problems of poorly run companies is a weak argument.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

Comair is owned by Delta. The main source of revenue is a fee per flight by Delta.
OH was unsuccessful in picking up NW flying due to cost issues.
I do not see sourcing DCI station ops and contract maintenance contributing significantly to Comair's revenue stream. Comairs maintenance cost are not competitve especially regarding heavy maintenance.


User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7757 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 9):
Sure it is, in the right markets. That's why every major airline flies them. If you do it like DH did, then it's not cost efficient.

Actually, when JET-A is above $2.00/gal the efficiency is lost. Some analyst show CASM above .19. The thing to remember, the CRJ-100/200 was the transition aircraft to move regionals to the jet age.

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
I work for a regional airline that also has an "expensive" labor group.



Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
Why do I have 3-hour sits at outstation airports? Why do we have 4-day trips constructed to 16 hours? Do we really need 20-hour layovers? There is no reason a standard 4-day trip cannot be constructed to 20-24 hours of block time and be legal at the end of the month. Doing this would reduce staffing and not require

I agree with you 100% on efficency. I think RP does this correctly with the EMB's. However, Regional's are not the primary carrier and utilized to meet market demands for there code sharing partners. We are experiencing a business evolution of the industry. Unions like companies must be flexible in these times. As we are experiencing, the major's have a lot of options in the area of partners and will probably have more in the next few years. What's going to get the industries attention is when a number of employees from regional carriers like Comair and Express Jet are forced to the street.

Personally, I think their is a conflict of interest in the same union representing major and regional carriers. Also, every legacy carrier has changed leadership since 9/11, but the unions have not. This is a completely different landscape since 9/11.


User currently offlineDocChaos From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7722 times:

And just to clarify, this is NOT for all the 50-seat CRJ flying (The 40 seat jets are bundled into the flying as well. Comair, with help from Bombardier, has been fitting them with the additional 10 seats).

Request for Proposal (RFP) components of DConx, including up to 50 new 76-seat aircraft, up to 43 70-seat aircraft, including the 27 70-seaters currently in Comair’s fleet, and up to 50 50-seat aircraft that are currently in operation by various DLConx including Comair. Delta sent this RFP to all existing DLConx
carriers, as well as some regional jet operators not currently flying for Delta Connection.

This is by far the end of Comair, just the shrinking of it's flying operation. Comair is a HUGE ground handler for Delta, DLConx, even other carriers in some stations. Comair operates these services at a very competitive cost. Heck, even in a station as big as MIA, Comair has the ground handling contract for Delta.

Just my $0.02.
DocChaos


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3451 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

"I guess I personally would say to those arrogant pilots and flight attendants that thought they didn't deserve a cut that I hope you find unemployment more conducive to your daily life, since we obviously won't be needing you all much past November."

Don't post before counting to 10 please. This is an emotionally-charged statement that is rather immature.

As you are seeing with Mesaba, regional employees are not going to take concessions to make it work. This isn't 2001, and they're not UAL pilots making $250,000 a year.

Most of the flight attendants make a wage that is at the poverty level. Most of the pilots make far less than $100,000 a year. Most of the new pilots at regionals make less than $30,000 a year.

You won't get concessions from these people. It's ridiculous to ask.

PJ


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7511 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 15):
"I guess I personally would say to those arrogant pilots and flight attendants that thought they didn't deserve a cut that I hope you find unemployment more conducive to your daily life, since we obviously won't be needing you all much past November."

Don't post before counting to 10 please. This is an emotionally-charged statement that is rather immature.

As you are seeing with Mesaba, regional employees are not going to take concessions to make it work. This isn't 2001, and they're not UAL pilots making $250,000 a year.

Most of the flight attendants make a wage that is at the poverty level. Most of the pilots make far less than $100,000 a year. Most of the new pilots at regionals make less than $30,000 a year.

You won't get concessions from these people. It's ridiculous to ask.

PJ

BRAVO!!!!

When I tell people that I earn about $35K annually they are stunned. And I am close to upgrade in my third year at my current job.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7485 times:

As the Comair MEC pointed out, the cuts demanded by Comair management would have put some Comair FO's at such a low-pay, that they would qualify for food stamps!! Something is fundamentally wrong with your business model, when skilled labor (like pilots) have to be paid at those levels.

User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7478 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 17):
As the Comair MEC pointed out, the cuts demanded by Comair management would have put some Comair FO's at such a low-pay, that they would qualify for food stamps!! Something is fundamentally wrong with your business model, when skilled labor (like pilots) have to be paid at those levels.

And the flying public is largely unaware of this.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25170 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7457 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well, now, look-ee here - Frontier is looking for someone to fly CR7's, to replace Horizon.

A place for Comair?

But if the costs are too high, they'd be out of the frying pan into the mud.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7349 times:

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
I feel bad for every company like Comair and Mesaba, where labor is being blamed for something which is not their fault.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
The only thing this workgroup can be blamed for is shooting tthemselves in the foot after the the Comair strike a few years ago. the majors have since learned to lower their vulnerability to any one feeder/conex/express carrier ever being able to damage a hub again (CVG). The majors ever since then have been "diversifiing" their conex flying. Even Skywest with it's inhouse bitch ASA is doing this for DL. This also creats logistical scheduling issues for the schedules and crews.

God know in todays environment I'd never want to work fo an airline especially a regional.



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineHigherflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7221 times:

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Thread starter):
I guess I personally would say to those arrogant pilots and flight attendants that thought they didn't deserve a cut that I hope you find unemployment more conducive to your daily life, since we obviously won't be needing you all much past November.

Don't you think that is a little harsh!?

The pilots agreed to cuts earlier but they weren't implemented due to the stalemate with the flight attendants. Now, it appears there may be movement with the flight attendants and the pilots are saying that they aren't going to lay down and take whatever cuts that management wants them to take. The whole process is a negotiation... among all the work groups.

In 2000, the pilots stood firm and made major contract gains. Now, they have been asked to give a large part of the gains back. There will be some agreement and Comair will survive.

Any dealings I have ever had with the ground ops, flight crews and gate staff have been professional. I think that all of us wish them well.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 7):
Just to clarify once again, and maybe I should have worded the thread title differently, Comair is not loosing the DCI contract completely as my understanding is, but rather Delta is removing the aircraft they own from the Comair fleet and replacing the operator of those aircraft with a more competitive airline. The complete outcome of this won't be known until November when DL has reviewed the proposals from all of the carriers.

The memo's from management say nothing about us loosing the 40-seat flying, only the 70- and 50-seat flying (on those aircraft owned by Delta).

This is largely true but remember Comair is a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta. while there are no indications DL intends to do so, they could easily dissolve Comair and distribute the assets as DL sees fit. Wholly owned subsidiaries exist solely at the pleasure (in a purely business sense of the word) of their parent.

It is very likely that leases or the 50 seaters which are removed from OH will be rejected by Delta and returned.

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
I have said before and I will say it again, labor is sometimes their own worst enemy. But to blame them for the financial problems of poorly run companies is a weak argument.

There are very few places where regional airlines can differentiate themselves. Comair runs a good operation but so does Republic which operates for much lower costs.

Regional airlines that sell their capacity to major airlines make few strategic decisions. Again, they exist for the "pleasure" of the major carrier they serve. Cost is often the biggest deciding factor between carriers.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 17):
Something is fundamentally wrong with your business model, when skilled labor (like pilots) have to be paid at those levels.

It"s called competition> I don't like it that some airlines pay their employees such low wages but they do and they are Comair's competitors. Comair is fortunate that CVG is a pretty low cost place to live.... the salaries at Comair go alot farther in CVG than they would if those same jobs were based elsewhere.


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7091 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
It"s called competition> I don't like it that some airlines pay their employees such low wages but they do and they are Comair's competitors. Comair is fortunate that CVG is a pretty low cost place to live.... the salaries at Comair go alot farther in CVG than they would if those same jobs were based elsewhere.

I understand that argument. And it is valid. Competition requires more efficient operation. All I am trying to say is that there is a lot a company can do improve efficiency before cutting salaries. I have worked in both ground operations and as a pilot now for nearly 6 years and I see a lot of places where there are terribly wasteful things going on.

I would just like to see management take some responsibility to improve efficiency rather than just blaming already underpaid workers for financial problems that the underpaid workers did not cause. Trust me, efficient operations can and do exist. Look no further than Southwest.



smrtrthnu
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7060 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 23):
Look no further than Southwest.

In addition to running an efficient operation, Southwest management leads by example, and treats coworkers as equals.

I remember once, during my flight ops internship at Southwest, I was sitting with a few very senior management folks, having an informal chat. At one point, I was asked for my opinion on a matter (impressive in it's own right), and started to preface my reply with "Well, I'm just an intern, but..."

Upon hearing that, one of them interrupted me, and sternly reminded me that my opinion...as an intern...was just as important as that of a member of management.

After I went on to answer, he again reassured me that I should never, not even for a second, think of myself as in any way inferior to or less important than any other employee, including management.

That particular gentleman was also known for refusing to park in his convenient reserved parking place up by the building entrance. Instead, he made a statement by parking in the very back of the lot.

It's amazing to me how so many major airlines fail to realize (or accept) what can be gained from simply treating employees with respect and dignity.



2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
25 FlyPNS1 : Easy excuse, but it just doesn't hold water. If competition alone was the reason, then everybody in every industry would see their pay spiral down to
26 SHUPirate1 : Let me ask, what's to say Daddy Delta won't be simply transferring all of Comair's jets to their ownership and leaving Comair over the runway without
27 AvConsultant : OH has the oldest RJ fleet in the industry and employees who are long term employees similar to Mesaba. These two carriers are in the worse shape. OH
28 Post contains links Allstarflyer : I hope Comair doesn't take the tumble that Mesaba appears to be taking. Some of the folks at my dispatch school, you could say, have ties w/Comair. I
29 727forever : Oh, piss off. I say to those crews, "Way to go. Stand up for what you bring to the table." You tell a guy who just spent $120,000 on his education an
30 Milesrich : I don't want to get banned, but the guy who wrote the above lists his age at 16-20 years old and claims he is a part time CSA for Comair. To call ski
31 Jetdeltamsy : What can the pilots expect? They have priced their services at a non-competitive rate in an e-x-c-e-e-d-i-n-g-l-y competetive business. There are thou
32 Ca2ohHP : I knew it was only a matter of time until politics got thrown in. Democrat or Republican, there is no excuse for the mis-management at Comair. Overal
33 MCOflyer : FutureFO can verify this. He works for CHQ. Frontier has established Lynx Air as their wholly own subsidiary for regional flying. I think this replac
34 RandyWaldron : What an absolutely ridiculous statement to make. Considering what you've said, I would like to see you try and rub two nickels together after paying
35 WorldTraveler : There is nothing political about competition. If you think that Democrats are going to save the airline industry from bruising competition, you are s
36 FlyPNS1 : Diversify it's business away from being reliant on one carrier. Look at the regionals that are doing the best right now....its the likes of Republic
37 VgnAtl747 : At least the pilots have a union. We were just handed a note that basically said here's your new pay scale, enjoy your pay and benefits cuts. I was c
38 RJ : The fundamental problem with Comair is that Delta Airlines has mismanaged its relationship with Comair. This started back in 1999 when Delta and Comai
39 RJNUT : RJ You are now on my most respected list... That was an honest and correct assement of Regional flying today.. I am surprised how man on this board ta
40 WorldTraveler : So Delta gives Skywest advantageous pricing since they don't have to fly LCC routes but Comair has to so they get dinged? Sorry, but the logic is jus
41 TinPusher007 : I concur RJ, and RJNUT. Question: would Comair even be in BK themselves, had DL not bought them, all other things being equal?
42 Ca2ohHP : Most of the people I talk to at Skywest don't like their pay, but stick it out. Skywest is also really big on internal programs to prevent unions fro
43 WorldTraveler : You don't get it! Comair is not cost competitive. Who owns them is immaterial. Airlines that aren't cost competitive eventually fail. ALWAYS.
44 Lowrider : I think he does. What he wants to know is if the changes Delta made at Comair helped make them uncompetative. I think it is an unanswerable question
45 TinPusher007 : Thank you, world traveler. It's a pretty simple question. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Comair in 'de-facto' BK because it's parent company is?
46 Post contains links Mariner : Sorry, no. Lynx (dba Frontier Express) is a separate issue. They will use Q400's to fly regional routes (up to 650 miles from DEN - but not necessari
47 DashTrash : WRONG!!!!! By refusing to agree to the need for retirement plans, duty / trip rigs, and various other things that are needed to make this job worth d
48 WorldTraveler : Comair, like any other airline, cannot shrink its way to profitability. The lowest paid employees are the ones that will be laid off, thanks to senior
49 2H4 : As I see it, management brought the company down because they refuse to pay the wages pilots are willing to work for... 2H4
50 Lowrider : Isn't labor one of those resources? When you start looking at employees as the problem instead of the means to the solution, your company is in troub
51 TinPusher007 : Refused to help Comair? When that contract was negotiated, Comair was not in need of help. The pilots were in need of better compensation. And while
52 RJ : WorldTraveler, First off, lets get the record straight. I do not have a dog in this hunt. So, I am not blinded by my ability to understand the economi
53 FlyPNS1 : I never said that and I don't know where you came up with this. Using RJ's on low-yield routes is a money-losing proposition. In order to make up for
54 WorldTraveler : You folks can go on and on all day long but you cannot deny the reality that management in a free enterprise model holds the keys in managing producti
55 FlyPNS1 : You do realize that DL eventually caved and the Comair pilots got the raises they wanted. Then to boot, they got massive growth in the years that fol
56 WorldTraveler : Comair pilots got nowhere near what they went on strike for. And if Comair grew so much, then how did it's cost get so out of line with the competiti
57 FlyPNS1 : Sorry to disappoint you, but the Comair pilots got just about everything they wanted. Good question. Sounds like piss-poor management to me. Delta gr
58 2H4 : It's not that their pilots understand it...it's that WN management understands it, and treats their People with dignity and respect. It's a two-way s
59 TinPusher007 : I know that. The point I was making is that Comair always had a bigger share than the other two. Now ASA is owned by Skywest and one might count thei
60 WorldTraveler : And DL got in trouble because they lost their cost discipline. Their employees were the highest paid. But more importantly, DL management and pilots
61 MD88Captain : Comair will end up a shadow of what it once was. Many fingers will be pointed and the Comair pilots will whine and cry. In the end the results will be
62 DashTrash : You obviously didn't read my post. Comair's labor did not put "a line in the sand". What they did was bring regional pilot pay, workrules, and benefi
63 WorldTraveler : I'll defer to the succint words of the captain who summarizes all I've said very nicely.
64 727forever : Wow, yet another thread of WorldTraveler pilot bashing? You didn't answer my question on the other thread so I will ask it again. What exactly do you
65 Panamair : Well, to be fair, if you read his posts in this thread carefully, he was talking about ALL OH labor (including the FAs, etc.) and not just the pilots
66 WorldTraveler : and more specifically, my comments here were about the inability of companies that have numerous labor unions to adapt to the new realities of the ind
67 Lowrider : I am not sure that history agrees with you. I would say that there are just as many, if not more, failed non-union airlines than union. At Independen
68 AvConsultant : WT is not pilot bashing. He's point out a facts of a company with new leadership trying to survive. Just becasue the chips pile up around the feet of
69 WorldTraveler : my point is not to bash labor. It's simply to point out that for companies in trouble, having to negotiate with labor to get the changes that everyone
70 Lowrider : You won't catch me defending Duane Worth. Ever. I have been on the recieving end of several of the negative things you have listed. I was simply poin
71 Post contains images OttoPylit : In regards to your statement on paying for flight training or living on a flight attendant's salary. No one made you pay what you did for flight trai
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DaimlerChrysler To Retain At Least 15% Of EADs posted Wed Apr 12 2006 20:12:40 by Leelaw
Comair Files To Reject FA Union Agreement posted Wed Feb 22 2006 20:47:11 by KarlB737
ComAir JFK To BTV posted Fri Sep 16 2005 02:30:07 by PlaneFan
A-350 To Retain 10% Of 330 Parts posted Wed Jun 8 2005 23:16:15 by DAYflyer
HGR To Retain Air Service Until 2007 posted Tue Apr 19 2005 18:16:44 by A330323X
AS To Retain Buy-on-board Meals To/from Mexico posted Wed Mar 30 2005 18:21:44 by EA CO AS