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Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

Frontier Airlines applied with DOT earlier today to begin service from San Jose del Cabo to both San Jose, California and Sacramento.

Docket:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=416287&docketid=25993

Frontier would join Mexicana as the second airline on SMF-SJD, but would be the first on SJC-SJD.


a.
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25004 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6419 times:
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And I didn't think there was any good reason to check the DOT website today.  Smile

Thnaks for that, MAH, but I am a bit confused. The application says there are two authorities available for SJC-SJD. Does that mean after - and if - Frontier is approved? Otherwise, who has the first authority?

Or is SFO included with SJC for Mexican bilateral purposes?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Dang, they forgot about us in Fresno.  Wink

But seriously Mariner, SJC-SJD authority is currently held by Alaska.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25004 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6302 times:
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Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):
Dang, they forgot about us in Fresno.  

I was half expecting FAT-SJD. Or FAT to somewhere in Mexico.  Smile

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):
But seriously Mariner, SJC-SJD authority is currently held by Alaska.

I thought that, FATFlyer, but I was checking Travelocity over the Christmas period and didn't find any SJC-SJD as a non-stop. Maybe they're booked out?

However, for Frontier it makes a tad more sense of the fact that there is no SFO-LAX connection to LAX-SJD on a Saturday.

Now at least south Bay Area folk get the service to SJD on Saturdays - although not Christmas.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 560 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6216 times:

Great news!  Smile

Mariner- your wish has come true (partially anyway). If approved, your much touted SMF service will become a reality! (still awaiting the FAT application  Wink).

If approved, SJD will become F9's second largest p2p Mexican destination, after CUN. F9's Mexico service will stand with the following city pairs pending approval of this proposed service:

DEN-CUN, CZM, ZIH, ACA, GDL, PVR, MZT, SJD
CUN-DEN, BNA, IND, STL, MCI, SLC, SAN
SJD-DEN, MCI, LAX, SMF, SJC
PVR-DEN, MCI

This will give Frontier a total of 19 distinct markets to/from Mexico, of which 11 are point to point routes that do not touch DEN.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/fron...ook/routes-timetables/route-map.do

 Smile


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6126 times:

Good news it seems for F9 but will they ever start any new point-to-point routes outside of Mexico? It seems like they are building up steam in some key cities like SFO, MCI & LAX and the next logical move would be to start some point-to-point routes especially when the seasonal business tails down on the mexico routes.

Is F9 going to go it alone forever or will they ever partner up with the likes of FL or AS?



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6045 times:

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 4):
If approved, SJD will become F9's second largest p2p Mexican destination, after CUN. F9's Mexico service will stand with the following city pairs pending approval of this proposed service:

DEN-CUN, CZM, ZIH, ACA, GDL, PVR, MZT, SJD
CUN-DEN, BNA, IND, STL, MCI, SLC, SAN
SJD-DEN, MCI, LAX, SMF, SJC
PVR-DEN, MCI

Very impressive. Frontier is definetly betting on the tourist sector, I'm sure DEN-MTY and DEN-MEX would workout for them if they gave it a go.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):
I thought that, FATFlyer, but I was checking Travelocity over the Christmas period and didn't find any SJC-SJD as a non-stop. Maybe they're booked out?

Currently not flown. It used to be seasonal Oct to April. I'm not sure when it was last operated or what the current plans are.

FYI, here is the list of all authorities as of Nov 2005. Of course there has been a real flurry of activity this year so the document is missing a number of authorities but this list always serves as a good start.
By Country
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/country.pdf
By Airline
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/carrier.pdf



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25004 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5892 times:
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Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
Is F9 going to go it alone forever

Forever is a long time, but I think for the foreseeable future - unless they have a trick up their sleeve.

Management keeps talking code share with someone, but it hasn't happened yet.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
will they ever partner up with the likes of FL or AS?

I don't think it would be Alaska/Horizon, who clearly don't want to play with Frontier anymore.

Given these applications, perhaps Alaska feels that Frontier is getting too much California?

Quoting Juventus (Reply 6):
I'm sure DEN-MTY and DEN-MEX would workout for them if they gave it a go.

I'd add DEN-CUU to that. The only one that seems pretty sure is MEX. Joe Hodas talked about it in a news article.

But he said a curious thing - not necessarily from DEN.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5868 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 6):
DEN-MEX would workout for them if they gave it a go.

DEN/MEX has worked for no one so far, so I'd highly doubt that F9 would give that a shot, particularly without a Spanish website.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25004 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5803 times:
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There's a fun typo in the application:

"...between SJC and SJO..." (first line, page 3).

SJO - Costa Rica? Well, it is being considered, so maybe it is the shape of things to come:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4016660

Costa Rica has "a lot of tourist appeal," said Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas.

 

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I'd highly doubt that F9 would give that a shot,

Which would explain the Hodas comment in the article:

"Certainly there's an opportunity there," though not necessarily from Denver, Hodas said.

But if not from DEN, then from where?

I don't think LAX-MEX is available, and although MCI is begging for MEX service (in every Frontier application that involves MCI and Mexico), I don't think that would work any more than a couple of times a week, at most.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
particularly without a Spanish website.

Spanish is available on the website, but, oddly, not until step #2 of the booking process. So I guess they may be working on it.

mariner

[Edited 2006-10-03 22:00:55]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMikesairways From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5768 times:
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It looks like someone will use SJC's gate A1A (the NRT gate) after all!


The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

Bravo F9 way to go I wish you all the best on p2p flying.


Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5704 times:

Quoting Mikesairways (Reply 11):
It looks like someone will use SJC's gate A1A (the NRT gate) after all!

FYI, Mexicana is moving into A1B at SJC on Wednesday.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/15667962.htm



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

Alaska dropped SJC-SJD and doesn't hold the route authority. Not to mention more then 1 carrier can fly this market, even if Alaska decided to return to the market (which will most likely not happen).

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
Alaska dropped SJC-SJD and doesn't hold the route authority.

I didn't know that, when did they lose the authority?

F9 seems to think in their filing that someone else already holds SJC-SJD and AS is the only one I can find.

As of November 2005 AS still had it according to this link:
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/carrier.pdf

And AS had applied for another 5 year renewal in this filing back in December 2004
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf90/306768_web.pdf



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

I find it interesting that Frontier initiates service on routes in which they have very little feed. Alaska runs their Mexico flights from cities that have a lot of connecting possibility. The key for Frontier will be to market their service well. The Sacramento area should be able to sustain this type of service with some seasonal adjustments perhaps.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13511 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5495 times:
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Great - F9 will trash yields in SJD while trying once again to establish a foothold in California.  Sad

I hope they get this experiment out of their system - literally - sooner than later.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25004 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5491 times:
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Quoting DesertAir (Reply 16):
I find it interesting that Frontier initiates service on routes in which they have very little feed.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

I think we are watching either the implentation of a Mexico strategy by Frontier - or a California strategy.

If it is the latter, then SFO-LAX already feeds into LAX-SJD. Who knows what may follow?

If it is a Mexico strategy then I guess the statements made by Frontier about the possibility of a Mexican subsidiary may be more than hints.

Who knows? But it ain't dull.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

I see this more as F9 replicating what they have been building at Cancun.

They already operate to SJD from Denver and Kansas City, along with the LAX flight.

I wonder what other cities will see applications for SJD. I would suspect they will be scattered around the West, not just California.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

FATFlyer: You could be right. All I know is that we have pulled out of the market to concentrate on SFO-Mexico. SJC-SJD flights never did well and many people from the SJC area still traveled up to SFO. Maybe AS has filed just to hold on to the authority and would be able to do so and long as a second carrier (other then F9) decided to start this route. The, if I understand correctly, we would have to restart the flight to hang on to the route authority. Good luck F9, my position is if AS, a known carrier in the region can't make it work, F9 will have some trouble.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
I think we are watching either the implentation of a Mexico strategy by Frontier - or a California strategy.

Or maybe we're watching F9 go on the offensive towards a slightly bigger airline in its neighborhood. Can't take on United.. can't take on Southwest.. can't take on America West/US Airways.. so how bout picking a fight with Alaska? One of two things will happen - either F9 will be successful and establish itself up and down the west coast, or they'll be a nuisance and effectively force AS to buy them. In the grand scheme of things, neither would be a particularly horrible outcome for the F9 folks.

Perhaps this also explains the interesting changing dynamic between the respective holding companies.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25004 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5416 times:
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Quoting Kohflot (Reply 21):
Or maybe we're watching F9 go on the offensive towards a slightly bigger airline in its neighborhood.

I guess that may be what I meant by a "California strategy". Although I don't think Frontier was looking for a fight, any more than Southwest was looking for a fight when they entered DEN. Mike Boyd thinks otherwise, of course.

But it might - stress "might" - explain why Horizon did not bid on the RFP for the new Jet Express contract?

I don't know.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

Interesting possibilities.

More route authority filings will indicate a Mexico strategy. So we we will see what happens.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
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