Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Westjet Emails Published In The Globe And Mail  
User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

The Globe and mail has released over 100 pages of internal emails related to the lawsuit with Air Canada that is now settled. The Westjet executives were using some ex-Air Canada employee passwords to get route loads on the employee website.
Click here


Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6201 times:

Thanks Salomon, this is an interesting read.

User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

Awesome read, thanks sharing


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

No problems!
Some sections are pretty interesting. Especially when Marc Hill wrote that Michel Leblanc was lying about load factors (page 29).



Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineCXH From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

Skimming through the PDF I notice a lot of future load factors for Air Canada, including asian routes, and the oversold seat counts. If there was any doubt, it shows this case was far beyond counting pax at gates!

BTW, here's the full article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl....w2westjetmain03/BNStory/Business/



I've seen the future, I can't afford it. - Martin Fry
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5861 times:

Thanks Salomon,

I guess there goes the "Friendly neighbourhood Airline" slogan...  scratchchin 
and yes these e-mails are very interesting, have met most of these people in person, wow I am kind of speechless.............

Cheers,


User currently offlineChewingPlastic From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

Wow, I wouldn't expect so many of these emails to be written so informally.

User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Very intersting read indeed! Thanks to original poster, as it sheds some light on the case ...

User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5713 times:

Quoting ChewingPlastic (Reply 6):
Wow, I wouldn't expect so many of these emails to be written so informally.

And most of the "confidential" stuff was done trough a ISP and not the WS e-mail..... wow..........

Cheers,


User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

Quoting CXH (Reply 4):
BTW, here's the full article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ness/

CEO of WestJet Responds to False Allegations



Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5601 times:

I'd say that his e-mails speak pretty clearly on their own without the Globe & Mail article. It's also obvious from the e-mails that he knew what he was doing was wrong. That said, corporate espionage is a fact of life these days, and he just happened to be one of the ones that got caught. Does it paint a bad face on him? Yeah, but then I'm pretty sure most corporate executives have their skeletons as well.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11522 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

If real -- which I don't see any reason it isn't -- this document is pretty disturbing. It looks like the WestJet people -- all the way to, incontrovertibly, the CEO -- knew what they were doing was wrong and want to keep it "hush hush" so as "not to tip [their] hand." They also actively sought out private, confidential internal data from Air Canada on flight loads and acted on them by discussing schedule changes on routes like YYZ-YYJ to combat Air Canada/Zip flights.

This is just absolutely, completely, and in every way disgraceful.

[Edited 2006-10-04 04:58:57]

User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

This really has changed my view of Westjet's leaders. Reading through all 99 pages, I could not believe that the espionage had gone to this extent and for so long, and that it had such detailed information. They were making decisions based on their findings through the "hole", as their IT guy described it. It also appears that not only did they know what they were doing was wrong, but they had also taken steps to make their conversations "off the record" through the use of their ISPs. Then there was also that message about being able to get data out of Westjet and into one of the guys' home systems, and trying to get clearance from the company's internal audit...

And of course, this was not limited to Air Canada. They appear to have had info on Jetsgo as well.

Oh, and how could I forget the "brown bag"?


User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

From my past expirences of non-reving with AC, those flight loads RARELY reflect actual loads. Often they're about 10% higher.

I've been bumped....alot!



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting YWG (Reply 13):
From my past expirences of non-reving with AC, those flight loads RARELY reflect actual loads. Often they're about 10% higher.

I've been bumped....alot!

You're wrong! They are 100% accurate as the information comes from a direct link to AC reservations system.


User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
You're wrong! They are 100% accurate as the information comes from a direct link to AC reservations system.

Hhahahah can't refute that!


User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 10):
That said, corporate espionage is a fact of life these days, and he just happened to be one of the ones that got caught

For sure, we are in the 21 century, however if "you" (WS) are pretending to be the clean, white, innocent sheep in public and then you get hit with sh.. like that..... Remember there is a difference between having an WS employee on AC gates and count the pax versus using illegal access to the AC computer system.....

Cheers,


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
Some sections are pretty interesting. Especially when Marc Hill wrote that Michel Leblanc was lying about load factors

We all knew Leblanc was a fibber, but Hill actually knew exactly by how much he was skewing his numbers.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 12):
And of course, this was not limited to Air Canada. They appear to have had info on Jetsgo as well.

And CanJet too.

Quoting YWG (Reply 13):
From my past expirences of non-reving with AC, those flight loads RARELY reflect actual loads. Often they're about 10% higher.

Remember, this is data 'stolen' from 2003/2004, AC's loads have grown +10% since then. Also, many of Hill's e-mails were referring to seat load factor versus ASM/RPM LF which is what the airlines report to the public on a monthly basis. Seat LF is generally 3-7% lower.


User currently offlineFly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

This is pratty sad. Thats was a line in there that said something like lets show them who the real low fare leader is. Ya right guys the only reason your still around is because you cheat. Oh well like someone else said its a common practice now a days.


Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Very interesting to be able to get a read of the original emails circulating through the WestJet executive team.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 16):
Remember there is a difference between having an WS employee on AC gates and count the pax versus using illegal access to the AC computer system.....

Well... whatever tools you end up utilizing, competitive intelligence is nothing new in the world of business.

AC left a hole wide open and WS exploited it and were caught in the process... lessons learned on both sides.



Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Quoting A332 (Reply 19):
AC left a hole wide open and WS exploited it and were caught in the process... lessons learned on both sides.

Agree the hole was there, but if you have "values" you leave it were it is....... not buts and ifs or it is also called respect............

Cheers,


User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Quoting Swissy (Reply 20):
Agree the hole was there, but if you have "values" you leave it were it is....... not buts and ifs or it is also called respect............

It's business... values take a backseat to profitability. It's nothing new.



Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineSmokescreen From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting A332 (Reply 21):
It's business... values take a backseat to profitability. It's nothing new.

Fair enough, but I think it will harm WestJet in the minds of those who thought of them as the plucky little guy standing up to the big bully (AC).


User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

You do all realize that the revelation that Westjet knew about this spying at the highest levels is old news as covered by a press release from May 29, 2006"

"In 2003-2004, certain members
of WestJet management engaged in an extensive practice of covertly accessing a
password protected proprietary employee web site maintained by Air Canada to
download detailed and commercially sensitive information without authorization
or consent from Air Canada. This practice was undertaken with the knowledge
and direction of the highest management levels of WestJet and was not halted
until discovered by Air Canada. This conduct was both unethical and
unacceptable and WestJet accepts full responsibility for such misconduct.
WestJet sincerely regrets having engaged in this practice and unreservedly
apologizes to Air Canada and Mr. Robert Milton.
As a full settlement, WestJet has agreed to pay Air Canada's
investigation and litigation costs of $5.5 million and has accepted Air
Canada's request that WestJet make a donation in the amount of $10 million in
the name of Air Canada and WestJet to children's charities across the country.
Air Canada has accepted WestJet's apology and withdrawn its claims in light of
this settlement. All legal proceedings between the parties have been
terminated. Both parties have expressed a desire to turn the page on this
unfortunate chapter with finality and are pleased that children's charities
across Canada will also benefit from this settlement arrangement."


User currently offline727200er From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Don't forget Canadians willingness to forgive. Look how long the liberals stayed in power.....

With recent changes in upper management, Canadians will actually admire the western upstart.

We're a funny people.



"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
25 Multimark : Had Westjet not gone out of their way to portray themselves since inception as the "good guys" vs. "big, bad Air Canada" this scandal would not contin
26 Post contains images Swissy : You guys are great people!!! I know it is just my opinion, never less.... I am well aware of it after 20 years in the business and that is my point,
27 Timeair : Can you believe WS actually believes by offering "LiveTV" they are going to sway that many travellers..WOW...better find a better marketing technique!
28 Yyz717 : I agree. Until I read the emails this week, I had believed that CB was not involved, as he insisted. These emails show that he must have know what wa
29 Post contains images A332 : I'm all for respect in the world of business... but unfortunately, an opportunity for strong growth and vast profitability will always come before re
30 Yeggerman : IMHO, other than people who are avid airline enthusiast like everyone on a.net, I don't think this will affect WS anymore than the original lawsuit di
31 Skedflyer : True for most of us, other than the employees that are also shareholders. CB sat there and swore to his people that he had nothing to do with this. H
32 Robsawatsky : The settlement press release clearly states "with the knowledge and direction of the highest management levels of WestJet". That surely has to includ
33 Skedflyer : Understandable, but at the time there was no direct proof, he challenged that statement from the settlement, and nobody had anything to say otherwise
34 Swissy : Agree 100% and no one should be naive to believe CB is Mr. nice guy or he would not be were he is today...... Old news or not very interesting never
35 Post contains images Swissy : A very wise CEO (old fart) once said to my: it is a sign of weakness and insecurity............ if you can't do business with respect and values.....
36 Multimark : Reading through the e-mails it is quite interesting to see how well AC was holding its own against WS. And post-bankruptcy AC's costs are lower than t
37 Salomon : Yep. Zip was actually doing good. Air Canada was going to transfer 20 A319 to Zip before they were shut down because Air Canada's costs matched Zip's
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Etihad..Hiring Ad In The Globe And Mail posted Sun Jan 23 2005 17:57:32 by Yegbey01
Globe And Mail: Robert Milton CEO Of The Year posted Fri Nov 25 2005 23:00:32 by Cessnapimp
Flying In The US And Canada With An Infant posted Sun Sep 10 2006 04:02:55 by Greg3322
MCI In The 70's And 80's posted Fri Aug 18 2006 06:22:57 by RampRat74
Will Cabotage Ever Happen In The US And Canada? posted Sat Feb 18 2006 23:47:20 by Cumulonimbus
S2 In The System And Other Eastern Routes posted Thu Dec 22 2005 17:20:25 by BHXDTW
Wi Fi In The US And Western Europe posted Sun Apr 10 2005 04:19:46 by Swisskloten
Differences In The GIG And GRU Markets? posted Wed Mar 9 2005 22:10:50 by Ssides
Delta Airpasses In The 1980's And 1990's posted Thu Oct 28 2004 21:12:36 by BSU747
A380 In The US And Japan posted Fri May 7 2004 11:13:59 by EUSWISS