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What Happened To AA's F100's?  
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 10109 times:

Hi folks,

Just wondering if anyone has the inside scoop on why AA dumped their F100 fleet ~3 years ago. I was suprised that they were able to hang on to their F100's as long as they were after Fokker ceased to exist as a manufacturer.

I miss boarding from jetways that are kneeled down as low as they will go and looking out from the oval-shaped window flying from ELP to DFW.

I also find it interesting that AA flew the jet using mainline crews. Creates an interesting speculation point: if AA were to bring E190's into the fleet, would mainline crews be flying it?

Thanks!

Brent


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineExRUAgentatDAL From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 10063 times:

From what I have heard....they were MX hogs and were costly to upkeep.

Chris



"The views expressed are mine alone and do not reflect the views of AirTran Airways"
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

The big Fokker!  Smile I think some are in Europe and more still out in the bone yard not too far away from you.


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3740 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 10011 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The last F100 aircraft was retired just two years ago, the final flight arrived in ORD. The reason those were retired was not only because the manufacturer had gone out of business, spare parts can still be available from another company (I don't know what it is but there are spare parts surely), the other reason was American still being at the time not profitable to reduce the number of fleet types as much as it was possible to do so. From 2001 to 2005, American reduced the number of fleet types from, I don't know how many I think 14, to as little as 6. Gone also are the B727's, ex-TWA B717's and the older DC-9's, ex-Reno MD-87 and MD-90's, DC-10 and MD-11 aircraft.
I think that if an aircraft has at least 100 seats, it is considered as a mainline aircraft. Not sure if the E190 would be considered as a mainline aircraft but even if American were to order it and make it part of the Eagle fleet, American would use it partially on former F100 routes and the remaining former F100 routes would be flown with MD-80 equipment, all that of course depends of the economy and the yields. For example, if a route flown with MD-80 aircraft isn't too profitable, it will be taken over by the regional subsidiary American Eagle. I think PIT and ALB are airports that no longer see AA mainline equipment, and there must be other airports in AA's whole system that no longer see AA mainline jets.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 10023 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 2):
I think some are in Europe and more still out in the bone yard not too far away from you.

Ah, so they've started a boneyard up here in the Pacific NW these days, eh?  scratchchin 

I moved away from the Southwest about 5 years ago...  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 10005 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
if AA were to bring E190's into the fleet, would mainline crews be flying it?

An AA pilot I know told me that this issue is being negotiated between AA and their pilot's union.


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9991 times:

I took the F100 frequently back when from DFW-DAY.... It didn't care for it much, a bit tight, a bit slow. I was happy when the MD82 was put on the route.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9991 times:

Helvetic in switzerland has about 5 I believe.
They were shipped through Norwich (I think) and painted into their lurid CS
Thanks
Alex


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9992 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Ah, so they've started a boneyard up here in the Pacific NW these days, eh?

Yeah you haven't heard of it! How dumb do I feel now, just read your ELP-DFW stuff and off I went! Thanks



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineMjlhou From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9972 times:

well...if my memory serves me correctly...the F100 had F8 and Y89. I know this ac became an MX nightmare as

Quoting ExRUAgentatDAL (Reply 1):
ExRUAgentatDAL

has said, and therefore, they were retired for fleet simplicity. I've worked with this A/C for AA in the past and it honestly was always breaking down. I wish they would find another solution for and retire the A300 as well, as this A/C has also plagued the airline with high MX costs.

Cheers



Don't worry about things you can't change or control
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9959 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 8):
Yeah you haven't heard of it! How dumb do I feel now, just read your ELP-DFW stuff and off I went! Thanks

It's OK. Maybe you and I will talk on the airwaves one of these days if I ever fly cross-country to Sun 'n fun down in Orlando...(one of my dreams!)  Wink I'll have to start building my dream RV-8 first LOL



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9945 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 10):
I'll have to start building my dream RV-8 first LOL

I hear you can get a Fokker 100 cheap these days!  Smile



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineScaledesigns From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9944 times:

I heard the F100s needed to have several upgrades to the landing
gear?Since the new parts had to be manufactured by an outside source
other than Fokker it proved to costly for most operators.Does anybody know
anything more?



F1 Tommy
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9920 times:

Didn't Avianca take at least 15?


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9905 times:

wern't a few of those little fokkers sent off to Brasil for an airline(forget the name) there?

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9906 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 11):
I hear you can get a Fokker 100 cheap these days!

I'll bet the type rating would cost more than the airframe  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9825 times:

Thanks to US Airways and American retiring the Fokker 100s, they have enjoyed some sort of renaissance over here in Europe. They nowadays fly with airlines such as dba, Air Berlin, HLX, Helvetic, Spanair, Girjet, Austrian Arrows etc. and some of those have sizeable fleets. Most ex US/AA aircraft bought dirt cheap, refurbished and put into good use.

User currently offlineA300AA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 14):
wern't a few of those little fokkers sent off to Brasil for an airline(forget the name) there

Ocean Air And Avianca,.

But the question is How are they doing with these planes?


User currently offlineCgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

I know Jetsgo bought several AA F100s before they went bankrupt. I don't know where they ended up after the airline went bankrupt.


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Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2993 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9743 times:

As others have noted, a large number went to the Synergy Group in Latin America (owner of Avianca, OceanAir, Wayra Peru, etc.).


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9745 times:

Lets not skip the AD on the Tays. What like $2m per plane (per engine?)

N


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 9730 times:

AA's F100 fleet (74-strong at time of retirement) was dispersed all over the world. A substantial number were sold to now-defunct Canadian LCC JetsGo, and another large chunk were sent to South America with Synergy Group (Avianca, Ocean Air, etc.). A few others ended up in Europe with Helvetic Airways, etc.

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
Just wondering if anyone has the inside scoop on why AA dumped their F100 fleet ~3 years ago. I was suprised that they were able to hang on to their F100's as long as they were after Fokker ceased to exist as a manufacturer.

The planes had major maintenance issues and were very expensive to maintain so intensively. In addition, because the OEM (Fokker) went belly-up in the late 90s, AA was forced to manufacturing many of the planes parts in order to keep it flying, which was exceedingly costly.

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
I also find it interesting that AA flew the jet using mainline crews.

The planes, from the beginning, were conceived as mainline planes. While they were small for mainline, they were way, way too big for Eagle.

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
Creates an interesting speculation point: if AA were to bring E190's into the fleet, would mainline crews be flying it?

AA mainline pilots would get the flying on anything over 70 seats as long as it is "cost neutral" for the company to give them the flying over Eagle pilots.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 9649 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
AA mainline pilots would get the flying on anything over 70 seats as long as it is "cost neutral" for the company to give them the flying over Eagle pilots.

Wonder how an E190 would look in bare metal...  cloudnine 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7399 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 9613 times:

The thread title is somewhat at odds with KELPkid's post. I have no idea why AA chose to get rid of their f-100 fleet. However I can help provide some of the answer to the question in the title:

N1400H became C-FKZC of Jetgo and then YR-FKA of Carpatair
N1401G became C-GKZB of Jetgo and was then bought by RSM Richter and was stored at YQB
N1402K, N1403M, N1404D and N1405J were stored at Mojave CA
N1406A is now OE-LVJ of Tyrolean Airways operated in Austrian Arrows colours
N1407D became C-GKZH of Jetgo
N1408B and N1409B became PH-ZFN and PH-ZFO of Fokker Services BV
N1410E became C-GKZL of Jetsgo and then OE-IID of International Jet Management
N1411G went to Jetsgo as C-GKZK and was then stored at Dinard, France
N1412A went to Oceanair as PR-OAD
N1413A and N1414D were leased by Wayra and registered OB-1821-P and OB-1816-P
N1415K was stored at Mojave CA
N1416A became C-GKZD and F-WQVS of Jetsgo and was then went to Modovian Airlines as ER-FZA
N1417D became C-GKZJ of Jetsgo and then went to Fokker Services BV as PH-ZFP
N1418A became C-GKZV of Jetsgo, PH-ZFQ of Fokker Services BV and OE-LVK of Tyrolean
N1419D was damaged beyond repair in a landing accident at DFW in 2001
N1420D became C-GKZA of Jetsgo and then OE-IIB of International Jet Management
N1421K became PH-ZFR of Fokker Services BV and then OE-LVL of Tyrolean Airways
N1422J went to Fokker Services BV
N1423A became C-GKZP of Jetsgo and is now OE-IIC with International Jet Management
N1424M went to Trade Air as 9A-BTD
N1425A became C-GKZM of Jetsgo and was then went to Werner Air Services
N1426A went to PF One Ltd
N1427A and N1428d went to Oceanair as PR-OAG and PR-OAH
N1429G went to Wayra as OB-1831-P
N1430D went to Oceanair as PR-OAF
N1431B went to Trade Air as 9A-BTE
N1432A and N1433B went to Oceanair as PR-OAI and PR-OAJ
N1434A went to PF One Ltd
N1425D and N1426a went to Oceanair as PR-OAK and PR-OAE
N1437B went to by PF One Ltd
N1438H became C-GKZG of Jetsgo and then JU-8428 of Aero Mogolia
N1439A became C-GKZX of Jetsgo and was stored Quebec
N1440A and N1441A went to Oceanair as PR-OALK and PR-OAM
N1442E became C-GKZW of Jetsgo and was stored Quebec
N1443A became PH-ZFF of Fokker Services BV and is now operated by Tyrolean Airways as OE-LVC
N1444N and N1445B were stored at Mojave CA
N1446A went to PF One Ltd
N1447L became PH-ZFL of Fokker Services BV and is now operated by Tyrolean as OE-LVH
N1448A became HK-4419X with Avianca
N1449D went to PF One Ltd
N1450A became HB-JVE of Helvetic
N1451N became HB-JVA of Helvetic and then OM-AAC of Slovak Airlines
N1452B went to PF One Ltd
N1453D went to Avianca
N1454D became HB-JVF of Helvetic
N1455K went to Fokker Aircraft N1455K Trust and was stored in the Netherlands
N1456D became PH-ZFL of Fokker Services BV and is now operated by Tyrolean as OE-LVI
N1457B is now owned by PF One Ltd
N1458H became HB-JVG of Helvetic
N1459A went to Fokker Aircraft N1459A Trust and was stored in the Netherlands
N1460A is stored at Mojave CA
N1461C is owned by PF One Ltd
N1462C became HK-4420X of Avianca
N1463A became PH-ZFI of Fokker Services BV and is now operated by Tyrolean as OE-LVF
N1464A became PH-ZFB of Fokker Services BV and is now operated by Tyrolean as OE-LVA
N1465K became HB-JVB of Helvetic and then EC-JRV of GirJet
N1466A became HB-JVD of Helvetic and then EC-JOM of Gestion Area Finance for lease to Spanair
N1467A became PH-ZFH of Fokker Services BV and then OE-LVE of Tyrolean
N1468A became HB-JVC of Helvetic
N1469D became PH-ZFE of Fokker Services BV and then OE-LVB of Tyrolean
N1470K went to Avianca
N1471G was stored Mojave CA
N1472B went to Avianca
N1473K went to Fokker Services BV as PH-ZFG and then Tyrolean as OF-LVD
N1474D went to Fokker Services BV as PH-ZFJ, then to Tyrolean as OE-LVG and was leased by Slovak Airlines before being returned to Tyrolean

(I believe all the above aircraft registered to Tyrolean Airways are operated in Austrian Arrows livery.)


User currently offlineScaledesigns From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 18 hours ago) and read 9516 times:

Its really simple why AA got rid of the F100s.As already pointed out ,they
were getting very expensive to maintain.They needed major landing gear and
engine mods..Since Fokker gave up after Benz took them over parts are
no longer available from the manufacturer.Plus AA wanted to simplify the fleet .I dont think many F100s will still be flying in 10 years.



F1 Tommy
25 Willyj : HPN (westchester county) used to see 4/5 F100s a day. I believe the last F100 flight was from HPN to ORD. After they were retired a few 738s with a m
26 Commavia : If I remember correctly, AA badly wanted to put MD80s into HPN from ORD, but the local NIMBYs there balked because it would be too loud. Idiots.
27 Post contains links and images 777jaah : View Large View MediumPhoto © Ralph Duenas - Airplanespotters AV has 10, according to their website. I actually took one of them 2 weeks ago CTG
28 Post contains images Zippyjet : Believe it or not, I remember seeing plenty of the sort of ugly (in my opinion) F100's at ATL! I heard they were noisy and uncomfortable and not a big
29 Akizidy214 : Doesn't TAM have a few of the AA birds?
30 Akizidy214 : I talked to a mechanic recently and he said the F100 was by far the most difficult plane to work on major pac and rudder problems to name a few. But A
31 Ha763 : The AD was most likely the last straw. IIRC, it was $1mil per engine. The cost of complying with the AD plus the cost of having to provide their own
32 Brenintw : Mandarin Airlines (AE) has a fleet of 6 -- must be the most uncomfortable jet I've been in, if I get a window seat, I end up sitting with my head ben
33 AMSSFO : AA was not forced to get their parts from other sources. It was their own decision not go obtain parts from Fokker Services. This company was part of
34 Commavia : Well, apparently AA didn't get that memo, since the company clearly stated at the time of the fleet's retirement that they were being forced to manuf
35 Stylo777 : I miss the birds of Air Berlin and dba in this list. Are they former AA jets as well? I know that Germania operated them before going bankrupt. I have
36 AMSSFO : Those are former US aircraft. Germania did not go bankrupt; they still operate the F100s for DBA, Air Berlin and Hapag-Lloyd Express And passenger co
37 Scaledesigns : I had heard that the company that made parts for the Fokker 100s was requiring more money from the aircraft operators.In order for AA to get the parts
38 AA777223 : How long were they in the fleet? It doesn't seem like they lasted very long at all. The first pic in the database is from 2002, and there is nothing b
39 N1120A : Fokker Services survived to provide MX support Nothing interesting about it. The aircraft are about the same size as a DC9-30. Funny thing about that
40 Scaledesigns : The problem was from what I understand,the aircraft needed updates.Not just OEM part replacements.The engines and landing gear needed mods.AA would ha
41 Post contains images Aviopic : Reading this topic I get the feeling that some people just returned from their holiday to Mars. Every A/C needs updates, if you check with the FAA you
42 VV701 : Thanks for the updates and corrections. N1400H was delivered to AA on 11 July 91 and withdrawn ferom use in January 04. So the oldest was in service
43 Post contains images Aviopic : So my estimate of 15 years was pretty accurate Now operated by Carpatair as YR-FKB
44 Scaledesigns : Aviopic, Since we have your attention,what major mods are required for an F100 nearing 15 years of service?
45 Post contains images Aviopic : All the standard stuff all A/C's had to suffer I am sure the AD notes can be found on the FAA website but a few concerning my own work. FM Immunity,
46 Boeing767mech : At least 5 of those F-100's stored in MHV where broken up. Last time I was in Mojave I saw them up in railroad ties and striped. David
47 Scaledesigns : Thanks Aviopic, That was very interesting. Well if Fokker had not gone under they might have sold 150 F100s to AA. To bad for once very large independ
48 Post contains links and images Aviopic : You're welcome. I am gonna tell you something else very interesting At the time 40 were sold to US-Airways can't remember with how many options thoug
49 Scaledesigns : Now thats a very nice toy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good job Willem,and thanks for the great reply.Now I know why I joined a.net.
50 Post contains images KELPkid : I'll second that, Willem. Thank you for the great and detailed posts! Here's hoping you get a ride in the newest Fokker when she takes to the air...
51 Post contains links and images Aviopic : A toy ? it's a famous WW1 fighter. That's won't happen, it's a single seat and I don't have a ppl. But maybe an Air to Air shoot, that would be great
52 Post contains links and images 757MDE : 10 For Avianca HK-4419-X HK-4420-X HK-4430-X HK-4431-X HK-4437-X HK-4438-X HK-4443-X HK-4444-X HK-4445-X HK-4451-X I don't know about Ocean Air, but
53 Baron95 : What was the F100 seat configuration in AA vs the S80? F100 seat count vs largest Eagle seat count? F100 seat count vs currently smallest AA mainline
54 Post contains links AMSSFO : Do you or someone else happen to know the construction numbers of these? I have a list but I do not know how reliable that one is. And the delivery d
55 Aviopic : 4419 = 11457 ex N1448A 01-Jun.2006 4420 = 11482 ex N1462C idem 4430 = 11465 ex N1453D idem 4431 = 11506 ex N1470K 01-Jun.2006 4437 = 11469 ex N1457B 1
56 AMSSFO : Thansk for the msn's but the dates can't be the delivery dates. I know 4419 was delivered February 11th, while at least one more was delivered in Feb
57 Aviopic : Those are registration dates.
58 VV701 : N1453D was ferried from storeage at Mojave (I believe to Tulsa) on 9 March and was followed by N1457B on 14 March. N1472B left Mojave on 6 April follo
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