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Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport  
User currently offlineJfkny From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 18 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8928 times:

Hi. I am trying to build a replica of Delta's terminal at JFK. I am confused as to whether the roof of Terminal 3-the Delta Worldport is oval-shaped or circular-shaped. Overhead pics appear to show it being an oval but from eye-level and in an old advertisement from the 60s, it shows it to be circular. Thanks for anyone's help.

Brian

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2100 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8910 times:

I understand what your saying. It looks round in some pictures and oval in others. I'm not sure.


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User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8839 times:

It's elliptical (and not circular). Check it out on Google Earth or another satellite browser.

User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8745 times:

Make sure you put a long line of little people waiting outside in your replica to immitate the ridiculous lines that terminal sees between 4-9 pm!

 duck 

BTW, I love the terminal, it's just not built for 12 767 bound European flights all leaving in close proximity to each other.  box 


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8696 times:
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Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 3):
it's just not built for 12 767 bound European flights all leaving in close proximity to each other

Actually, Pan Am in its heyday could handle 8-10 747s to Europe at around the same time from Terminal 3 and DL also did handle at least 10-12 767s/L1011s to Europe in the early '90s. The current problem is due to the post-9/11 security set-up which severely limits the amount of space land-side, so during peak summer periods, people lining up for the initial security check to even enter the check-in area have been pretty much forced to queue outside....


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 680 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8522 times:

Quoting a sight about JFK, " Pan Am also built "Worldport," a terminal building at JFK Airport that was the world's largest airline terminal for many years, distinguished by its elliptical, four acre (16,000 m²) roof, suspended far from the outside columns of the terminal below by 32 sets of steel posts and cables."

Hope this answers your question.

Rgds,
Ed



Ed
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8511 times:

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 3):
Make sure you put a long line of little people waiting outside in your replica to immitate the ridiculous lines that terminal sees between 4-9 pm!

If you're doing the interior, don't forget the tatty open-brick decor, the shabby carpets, the podiums (podia?) that still have Pan Am stickers on them, the grey Lubyanka that is Immigration, all that fun stuff.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8510 times:

I actually built a replica for an ERAU project. It's sitting next to me in my room now. Totally awesome project that I don't have the heart to get rid of.

Use the Herpa cars for the garage on top.

As for the round part in front . . . it's the hardest part!!! But yes, I think it's more oval than round.

PJ


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8456 times:

T3 is probably the worst terminal at JFK, although T6 is close.
I guess T3 looks cool at least, but its drab and miserable inside, especially if you are stuck in the bowels downstairs.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8301 times:
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It was built to Handle few 747's not a dozen 767. Pan Am had operaqtions in the morning to Tokyo & Day flight to LHR, late near Midnight to EZE & GRU, and the afternoon to evening double daily to LHR and FRA. They also did Paris and Rome most of the 747 era(1970 until they sold to Delta). Most of the other European services were in the 1980's when went to every nook and corner of Europe with airplanes way too big for the routes.

User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8243 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
It was built to Handle few 747's not a dozen 767.

Sorry, it was actually designed to handle 707s and DC-8s.



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 10):
Sorry, it was actually designed to handle 707s and DC-8s.

The original Worldport, the round bit, yes - but when the added the monstrous excresence onto the back, they built a number of gates specifically for 747's, with the jetbridges aligned to door 1L and 2L.


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 680 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8212 times:

The original "Worldport" was called the UTB (Unit Terminal Building) and had 8 gates. When the real "Worldport" was designed, it was to handle 747's as well as 707's and DC-8's. In fact 2 of the gates actually had 2 gate lounges and a total of 3 jet bridges for the 747 use. The bridge that met up to R-2 was deemed a failure as it got in the way of both catering as well as the loading equipment. They were finally removed from the building. In its' time, the building was beautiful, but time and age have taken its toll. I haven't been back since the day I was transferred to MIA in 1985, (21 years at JFK), but my wife and I have a great number of close friends that were former workers with us and are now with DL and still keep us informed as to what's happening up there. Perhaps some how DL will find the funds to overhaul the terminal once they settle their financial headaches. Time will tell.

Rgds,
Ed



Ed
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8212 times:
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Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11):
but when the added the monstrous excresence onto the back, they built a number of gates specifically for 747's, with the jetbridges aligned to door 1L and 2L.

There are a total of 6 such gates with double jet bridges (in the old Pan Am days, Gates 1-3, and Gates 10, 12, 14, which are now equivalent to Delta's Gates 4-6 and 12, 14, and 15) though Pan Am also did park 747s at another 2 gates with single jet bridges (Delta's current Gates 7 and 8)

So yes, Pan Am did handle up to 8 747s at one time at Terminal 3 and Delta did handle up to 11 767/L1011/A310s at Terminal 3 (in the early '90s after the PA acquisition). The current T3 gates 3, 4-10, 12, 14-15 were/are all used to handle European flights. As I've said before, the problem with congestion now is mostly due to the TSA-mandated set-up which required changes to terminal entry points and security checkpoints.


User currently offlineJFKNY From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8006 times:

Thanks for all the replies. I found a pic from 2003 on this site and printed it out. When I stand the printed picture of the terminal on its side, it starts to take on an elliptical shape..more oval-shaped, like the earth's orbit around the sun..lol It must be an optical illusion, what with the 32 support beams and cables on top. I even took a ruler (probably not an accurate measurerment on a 2-d picture) and I see one side measures over 3 inches across and another side is a little less than 1 1/2 inches in length. Yet, when viewed looking directly at it, it appears as a circle. I also see that the roof curves upward and is not completely flat. I can see why a previous post stated it was complicated to build.

By the way, I only plan on building the actual terminal, nothing inside. It will be 1:500 scale and I plan on building EVERY terminal and roadway/parking lots, etc at JFK on separate boards, stacked up in layers, so to speak. This will take years, if not at least a decade...lol. I wonder how JFK will be 10-20 years from now. Pics of construction updates will be posted on model airport-related websites.

I posted the original question to this forum because I know you guys are full of commercial aviation knowledge.

Again, thanks.

Brian


User currently onlineNYC-air From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7950 times:

Out of curiosity can someone tell me how the lower levels of the terminal are disigned? How many separate bag claim areas are there? What are the immigration facilities like?

I've flown DL out of JFK many times but have never mastered the lower the levels. What the hell are arrival areas A,B, and C. Do most domestic flights have their baggage sent there or to the bag claim under the oval? I just need clarification.

Thanks,
NYC-AIR


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

off topic but.... the most hidious baggage claim area has to be DL's Terminal 2. Who in their right mind designed that first level!

User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

JFKNY,

Your project sounds fun. Good luck and share pix!

If you're trying to do this without satellite photos, you're a brave soul. Check this out, and also get Google Earth.

JFK Terminal 3 satellite image


User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

Shabby and overcrowded, Terminal 3 is now terribly unsuited for an operation on the scale of Delta's. "An old confounding warren of passageways and glass partitions," is how it's described in my book.

Or this...

"Delta splits its JFK operations between terminals 2 and 3, and both buildings are the epitome of airport fixer-uppers. The former is what used to be the Pan Am Worldport. It’s an historic, vibrant (code word for sweaty and overcrowded), and intensely dungeonous place, connected by a glass-walled causeway to Terminal 2, previously described by one acerbic columnist as a “hideous modernist box with all the ambiance of an abattoir.” BusinessElite check-in at JFK is now consolidated at Terminal 2, an extremely smart move that will please the airline’s most valued patrons while helping to disperse the enormous crowds that typically gather in Terminal 3 during the late-day overseas departure push. Over the past year or so Delta has added almost 50 daily departures from JFK, and pending nonstops to India and Ghana promised up to 550 more people being dumped into already unbearable queues."

That's from here:
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/07/21/askthepilot195/



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
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