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Brazil Seizes Passports Of US Pilots Tied To Crash  
User currently offlineN701AA From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15000 times:

Brazil seizes passports of US pilots tied to crash
Tue Oct 3, 2006 7:34 PM ET

By Andrei Khalip
RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil, Oct 3 (Reuters) - Brazilian authorities confiscated the passports of two American pilots on Tuesday who were flying a business jet that apparently collided with a commercial airliner that crashed last week deep in the Amazon jungle, killing all 155 people on board.

Judge Tiago de Abril in Mato Grosso state, where the plane went down, told Reuters police had seized the passports of U.S. citizens Joe Lepore and Jan Paladino on his orders for the duration of the investigation. "That's a cautionary measure. If they returned to the United States it would require a lot of time and effort for us to collect their testimony," the judge said, adding that the investigation should not take long.

The two pilots, who were flying a newly built executive jet that authorities believe clipped the Boeing 737-800 in midair, arrived on Tuesday in Rio de Janeiro for medical and psychological tests as part of the investigation.
They face more questioning on Wednesday. "They are being interviewed by the authorities and are giving their total cooperation with the investigation," said Glauco Paiva, a U.S. consulate official in Rio.

The business jet, a Legacy 600 made by Brazilian manufacturer Embraer, was recently purchased by ExcelAire Service, a charter company based in Ronkonkoma, New York. The pilots were flying it to the United States when it apparently hit the airliner flown by low-cost Brazilian carrier Gol Linhas Aereas Inteligentes. The business jet was able to land safely at a military base in the jungle. None of the seven people on board were hurt.

DEVIATION FROM FLIGHT PLAN
Air Force commander Luiz Carlos Bueno said on Monday both planes were flying at 37,000 feet (11,300 metres), which means that one of them had strayed from its flight plan. Investigators want to know why modern collision avoidance equipment installed on both planes did not prevent the accident, local aviation authorities said.

Brazilian news reports have offered a range of conflicting theories about the accident's cause, some speculating that the Legacy jet may have deviated from its flight plan. Christine Negroni, with U.S. law firm Kreindler & Kreindler which is not involved in the investigation, said all planes heading west in Brazil fly at even multiples of 1,000 feet, and those hading east at odd multiples.
"Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000 (feet). That's very odd," she told Reuters.

A message asking for comment left with an ExcelAire official was not immediately returned.

At the crash site in a dense, remote area in the rain forest, salvage crews had recovered the remains of about 50 victims by Tuesday, including the airliner's two pilots. "Parts of the plane and many bodies are scattered over an area of some 20 square kilometers in the forest and searchers have to scare away wild animals, especially at night, by burning large fires," an air force spokesman said.

A badly damaged black box from the Boeing will probably be taken for analysis to the United States or Canada, after which it will be compared with the data from the business jet, aviation authorities said. As it often does, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board sent investigators to help with the probe in Brazil.

Grieving relatives were asked to provide dental records or descriptions that could help identify the bodies, as well as blood samples for DNA tests.

113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN701AA From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15006 times:

"Judge Tiago de Abril in Mato Grosso state, where the plane went down, told Reuters police had seized the passports of U.S. citizens Joe Lepore and Jan Paladino on his orders for the duration of the investigation. "That's a cautionary measure. If they returned to the United States it would require a lot of time and effort for us to collect their testimony," the judge said, adding that the investigation should not take long."

"Brazilian news reports have offered a range of conflicting theories about the accident's cause, some speculating that the Legacy jet may have deviated from its flight plan. "

I hope the investigation and the actions of Brazilian authorities remain guided by facts, and not by emotions or media speculation. It is obvious that a thorough and complete investigation could take months. Not sure what makes the judge think the investigation should not take long.

The two pilots may be in for a long ride!


User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 798 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15002 times:

Quoting N701AA (Thread starter):
searchers have to scare away wild animals, especially at night, by burning large fires

Not that it's that relevant, but I don't understand this bit..


User currently offlineN701AA From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14975 times:

Quoting RichM (Reply 2):
Not that it's that relevant, but I don't understand this bit..

The job of the rescuers in this area of Brazil must be extenuating. This accident happened in a very isolated part of the Brazilean jungle. If anyone has traveled in this part of the world, they will certainly understand the challenges they face.


User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14946 times:

Quoting RichM (Reply 2):
Not that it's that relevant, but I don't understand this bit..

well if they haven't removed the 150 odd body's yet...

i guess relatives would be sad enough having to deal with their next of kin dieing in a plane crash, i think having to tell them the body has been eaten by a whatever in the jungle may put the icing on the cake?


User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14912 times:

Quoting N701AA (Reply 1):
I hope the investigation and the actions of Brazilian authorities remain guided by facts, and not by emotions or media speculation.

And why would it happen any other way? The Air Force and the DAC are being really careful with what they say or imply, the pilots are under the custody of the US consulate in Rio and are not under arrest. Brazil and the US have a very tight diplomatic relationship and the last thing they want after such a tragedy is a diplomatic incident. The NTSB sent some of its own personnel down to Brazil to assist the investigation and so far nothing has happened to imply the investigations weren't being handled fairly. Had this accident occurred with a foreign crew in any other country, the situation would probably be the same.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14825 times:

Quoting RichM (Reply 2):
Not that it's that relevant, but I don't understand this bit..

You don't want one of these walking around a crash site with bodies everywhere...



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14549 times:

There is no doubt there is a great deal of emotion involved in this case but there also is nothing coming to light that would exonerate the Excelaire pilots. Brazil will do a very thorough job investigating and they have invited the US’s NTSB to join the investigation. But from the very beginning of this crash, some things just didn’t add up and they still don’t. I don’t know what the punishment in Brazil is for being the cause of an airplane crash that claims 155 lives but Excelaire lawyers should be asking that question.

User currently offlineZschocheImages From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14480 times:

Quoting N701AA (Thread starter):
Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000 (feet). That's very odd

I thought the same thing when I first started to read about the crash. There are many things that are still out of place in this whole situation.



Why fly with 2 engines when you can have 3?
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1558 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14482 times:

My thoughts go out to everyone involved in this crash from the families of the victims to the people trying to conduct a recovery and investigation. They all have a difficult road ahead.


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlineN701AA From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14307 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 5):
And why would it happen any other way?

Having Jose Carlos Pereira, the head of Brazil's airports authority, make declarations to the media that "We know that the transponder was turned off," "A pilot only turns it off when he doesn't want to be identified. The Legacy could have turned it off to try some air tricks far from the eyes of the air traffic controllers," is very inappropriate, simply wrong, and only adds fuel to the emotions of already devastated people. "The Legacy could have" should be a scenario for the investigators. When they find that "The Legacy did" then it becomes a fact, and then he should tell the world. Speculation is great for this forum, that is what we do best, but not in Pereira's statements to the media.


User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14263 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
for being the cause of an airplane crash that claims 155 lives but Excelaire lawyers should be asking that question.

Since You already seem to know what caused the crash maybe you should fgly down there and help them


User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14066 times:

Quoting N701AA (Reply 10):
Having Jose Carlos Pereira, the head of Brazil's airports authority, make declarations to the media that "We know that the transponder was turned off," "A pilot only turns it off when he doesn't want to be identified. The Legacy could have turned it off to try some air tricks far from the eyes of the air traffic controllers," is very inappropriate, simply wrong, and only adds fuel to the emotions of already devastated people.

I didn't know he made those statements. In that case, yes, I agree with you - these statements are completely out of place and do nothing but veer the media towards one side or the other. However, I don't think Infraero is a key player in the investigation - they administer the airports, they don't (usually) deal with crashes and accidents unless they're on airport grounds. The Brazilian Air Force still has a note up on their site saying it's much too early to draw any sort of conclusion and the investigations are ongoing, and the DAC hasn't updated their press section since yesterday. These are the people who actually matter, the ones conducting the investigation.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14049 times:

Quoting N701AA (Reply 1):
The two pilots may be in for a long ride!

Possibly, but I am sure they won't be locked up in a secret prison, tortured or put to death - whatever they MAY have done. Brazil is a civilised country.


User currently offlineN701AA From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13954 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 13):
I am sure they won't be locked up in a secret prison, tortured or put to death

I lost you. Are you still talking about this topic? Hmm!

Quoting ANother (Reply 13):
Brazil is a civilised country.

No doubt about it!...not that inexplicable things don't happen in civilized countries, though!


User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 13917 times:

Quoting N701AA (Reply 10):
Speculation is great for this forum, that is what we do best, but not in Pereira's statements to the media.

It'd also be good to point out that Mr. Sharkey has said to the press that "ATC in Brazil is terrible" - an equally misleading and speculative statement...



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineB777fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 13783 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 13):
Possibly, but I am sure they won't be locked up in a secret prison, tortured or put to death - whatever they MAY have done. Brazil is a civilised country.

?????

Are suggesting that's what would happen somewhere else?


User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 910 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13728 times:

Quoting ZschocheImages (Reply 8):
Quoting N701AA (Thread starter):
Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000 (feet). That's very odd

I thought the same thing when I first started to read about the crash. There are many things that are still out of place in this whole situation.

Apparently the investigation is focused on the fact that the Legacy pilots "ignored" the ATC instructions to fly at 36,000 feet. The FDR of the Legacy and the 737-800, and the CVRs should confirm this. The next question is why did the TCAS not go off? if it did, then why the lack of action? There could be all kinds of other issues such as incorrect altimeter settings, "no communicato..."



Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13477 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 17):
The next question is why did the TCAS not go off? if it did, then why the lack of action?

The information published so far states the transponder might have been turned off or malfunctioning, in which case TCAS wouldn't work. However, the authorities involved in the investigation have not confirmed that info.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13245 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 17):
Apparently the investigation is focused on the fact that the Legacy pilots "ignored" the ATC instructions to fly at 36,000 feet. The FDR of the Legacy and the 737-800, and the CVRs should confirm this. The next question is why did the TCAS not go off? if it did, then why the lack of action? There could be all kinds of other issues such as incorrect altimeter settings, "no communicato..."



Quoting N701AA (Reply 10):
Having Jose Carlos Pereira, the head of Brazil's airports authority, make declarations to the media that "We know that the transponder was turned off," "A pilot only turns it off when he doesn't want to be identified. The Legacy could have turned it off to try some air tricks far from the eyes of the air traffic controllers," is very inappropriate, simply wrong, and only adds fuel to the emotions of already devastated people. "The Legacy could have" should be a scenario for the investigators. When they find that "The Legacy did" then it becomes a fact, and then he should tell the world. Speculation is great for this forum, that is what we do best, but not in Pereira's statements to the media.

Why don't we all wait and see what's the result od this investigation will be! To have everybody making all kinds of assumptions is really boring!!!!!

And if in the end the American pilots turn out to be guilty, so be it! They must suffer the consequences!!!!!!! Simple as that!!!!!


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13123 times:

Quoting B777fan (Reply 16):
Are suggesting that's what would happen somewhere else?

No, I'm suggesting that in Brazil there would be due process. The pilots have not been arrested but the courts (not the police or the investigators) have decided that they should remain in Brazil until further notice. This is due process, is it not?


User currently offlineF22KA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13128 times:

AHA! I see OHLHD..., Guantanamo Bay is the place where foreign pilots are brought as a result of plane accidents committed against American airliners.
I learned something new today. You are good!!!


User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12843 times:

I would stay and be cooperative, but under NO circumstances would I surrender my passport to any government without my country's embassy getting involved.
That's a good way to have your identity stolen. There's a huge market for stolen US passports. I've had "government officials" try to shake me down for things like that in quite a few countries. Brazil is a very modern and civilized country, but there's always a few rotten apples no matter where you go.

There are plenty of other ways to keep the pilots there.


User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12844 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 13):
Possibly, but I am sure they won't be locked up in a secret prison, tortured or put to death - whatever they MAY have done. Brazil is a civilised country.

Actually, it is fairly well known the Brazil has some of the toughest prisons around. That said, they are a very civilized country and these are not common criminals and will be treated well. Unfortunately, they MAY have committed a fatal mistake.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 18):
It might be a cross reference to Guantanamo Bay..... oh he forgot that nobody is tortured anymore... as there are no secret prisons

As much as I disapprove of the current administration, to say that Guantanamo is worse than prison in other countries would be incorrect. There are prisons that are horrible places, where people have no rights, and where there are tortures happening every day. Guantanamo is probably mild in comparison.

Quoting ANother (Reply 21):
No, I'm suggesting that in Brazil there would be due process. The pilots have not been arrested but the courts (not the police or the investigators) have decided that they should remain in Brazil until further notice. This is due process, is it not?

If two Brazilian pilots had been involved in a fatal accident in the US, their passports would have been confiscated as well. It's only normal, and definitely part of due process.

Quoting F22KA (Reply 22):
AHA! I see OHLHD..., Guantanamo Bay is the place where foreign pilots are brought as a result of plane accidents committed against American airliners.
I learned something new today. You are good!!!

Actually, I believe all the pilots that were involved in plane accidents committed against American airliners died in the execution of such actions. Gitmo is full of suspected terrorists, isn't it?

FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 12742 times:

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 23):
I would stay and be cooperative, but under NO circumstances would I surrender my passport to any government without my country's embassy getting involved.

The US embassy is involved. The pilots are under the custody of the US Consulate in Rio de Janeiro.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
25 DMAJ7TH : once again, someone fails to see the point of this forum. its a hobbyists website. folks should be invited to speculate left and right, as long as it
27 Post contains images FLY2LIM : Nope, no objections at all. No one here expects anyone in these forums to solve the world's problems of hunger, poverty, and torture. We just love ai
28 N701AA : Right on! As I said before "Speculation is great for this forum, that is what we do best."
29 WorldTraveler : Anytime a person commits a crime in a country that is not his own, it becomes a bigger deal. There is every indication that Brazil is handling this i
30 B777fan : It is due process and I appreciate your clarification. I am not alarmed that individuals who are involved in the deaths of 155 people, whether culpab
31 Amazonphil : Ah, the good ol' Onça! Seen them in the wild down there and while they aren't that big...they are formidable. Lighting fires, having a firearm at yo
32 LipeGIG : Brazilian Federal Police also include their names on the list of people forbidden to leave Brazil. They are suspect of a murder as per Brazilian Law,
33 Post contains images Amazonphil : Not aiming this at you FLY2LIM, but then why do many a.netters here on this forum always have to resort to flaming someone for their opinion? I guess
34 N701AA : Fact - the F/O in the Comair crash in KLEX was the flying pilot on an aircraft that took off from the wrong runway. Knowing well that a final NTSB Ac
35 DMAJ7TH : yup, as ridiculous as something like that sounds, the person saying it has every right to say it on this forum. most of the time, though, i truly bel
36 CcrlR : The journalist was on ABC World news Tonight talking about his experience. They said something about the pilots arrested in the incindent.
37 ULMFlyer : Just a correction here. The right translation to English would be manslaughter and not murder. I think it's way too early for the federal police to g
38 WorldTraveler : ULM nailed it but there is no evidence that the Comair pilots intentionally did anything that would be criminal. There are indications that might hav
39 N701AA : You must be kidding me!
40 WorldTraveler : have the Brazilians indicated that any other nationalities are involved? I sure haven't heard anything. PERHAPS you could sift through something I mis
41 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : Hmmm, I take issue with Atta and company being called "pilots"... I love reasonable people
42 LTBEWR : As I suggested in other related posts in this tagedy, I am not surprised that they are still in Brazil for the early parts of the investigation. I am
43 PPVRA : A Frenchmen and a Portuguese were among the victims. I have not heard anything beyond the two. The French citizen apparantly lived in Brazil, as do (
44 Post contains images Lightsaber : An account from a journalist anboard the Embraer was mailed around are office today. If correct, the two pilots were very sad to hear that the plane t
45 EXC47 : Here goes my opinion. I really don't care if it hurts someone's feeling. This person that left his friends in Brazil and took off after taking picture
46 Post contains images Glideslope : LOL. Go eat some Chocolate. Oh, and get rid of those F-18's you fly.
47 Post contains images Bond007 : This thread would be VERY different if it were Brazilian pilots flying a new Gulfstream from Savannah who hit a WN Boeing 737 in US Airspace! We seize
48 Flyboy36y : You dont have a choice if it is a court order.
49 Hamster : I think detaining the pilots is ridiculous. It was an accident. Flying at 36,000 feet or mistakenly flying at 37,000 feet is no reason to detain these
50 777STL : Whether they are sorry or remorseful or not, it's irrelevant. If they were criminally negligent, they deserve to be punished as such. Saying you're s
51 Bond007 : Perhaps, but that's your opinion based upon some very limited information. Let's wait for the NTSB and other agencies' reports. "Reckless" can includ
52 Post contains links Osiris30 : http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-10/05/content_5169909.htm
53 57AZ : Actually, Correct. More importantly, there are different degrees of manslaughter. In the US, the pilots would most likely be charged with involuntary
54 727forever : I didn't realize that you got a sneak peak at the transcripts of the CVR before anyone else. How else would you know that the legacy pilots "ignored"
55 RIHNOSAUR : why would it be any other way...don't get it??? exactly the same image that came to my mind come on ...every one ALWAYS speculates.....we always spec
56 Tangowhisky : This came from the CNN website. I can not find the link, but here is the one from CBS "...It said the Legacy flew at 37,000 feet to the capital Brasi
57 Post contains images RIHNOSAUR : you are totaly entitled to your thoughts...but I just wanted to coment on the fact that this may not be a choice...if the same incident had happened
58 Post contains links ULMFlyer : So do I. I totally agree with you that it's too early to start blaming the Legacy crew or anybody for that matter. That are too many pieces of the pu
59 PPVRA : The "black hole" was describe by the airforce as an area of "magnetic anomaly" but, as noted, it's typical of low altitudes, at certain hours, dependi
60 Tangowhisky : Thanks for your excellent contribution ULMflyer. You have raised the right questions. I too would like to hear back from pilots and ATC alikes on thei
61 Post contains images OHLHD : Thank you, but ...... but don´t forget the next time
62 Post contains images FLY2LIM : Amazon: Good point. A.net, like any other forum, includes the opinions of professionals, teenagers, people in the business, people who are enthusiast
63 Varig : Not trying to speculate here; however it is hard to believe that the transponder on a brand new executive jet would be faulty on its delivery flight.
64 NIKV69 : I have been to Brazil many times. It is civized but these guys won't last a day in a jail down there. They way it's looking they aren't making it out
65 Varig : You are correct and wrong. While they wouldn't survive in a typical Brazilian prison; they would never be sent to the same prison as common criminals
66 Dellatorre : I couldn't agree more! Since the black boxes from the Legacy are intact, if the transponder C Bond was off or not during prior and after the collisio
67 FMAL : We don't have the death penalty in Brazil. But yeah, I understood what you said. Common jails in Brazil are a place that will leave nothing to be des
68 Varig : Yes, the FDR would indicate if the pilots turned off the transponder. Plus the CVR will probably give us an indication to WHY they did this-if that is
69 Lowrider : It is not unheard of for an aircraft to have "squawks" when it comes off of the assembly line. It could also be a defective transponder. Not very com
70 Tangowhisky : The Legacy cockpit voice recorder with a capacity (I think) of 120 minutes should be able to pick up any conversations that the pilots had with respec
71 Varig : I agree Lowrider, transponders do arrive faulty sometimes. However the aircraft said transponder is installed in does not roll off the assembly line u
72 Tangowhisky : One additioanl point. The data recorderes were sent to Canada for analysis.
73 NIKV69 : I am not so sure. If a commerical airliner is cruising along at an altitude it has been cleared to do so and a private jet turns off the transponder
74 Tangowhisky : Does anyone know if the transponder has a on/off switch on the Embraer 135/140/145/Legacy? or can it be only turned off by pulling the breaker? Also,
75 Varig : All transponders have on/off switches. Actually it is a knob that rotates from off-on-alt-stdby "On" Just means that ATC has a dot on their screen wit
76 Tangowhisky : Thanks Varig. So are you saying normally it should be at "ALT" so that both aircraft ID and Altitude are xmitted to ATC and surrounding traffic/TCAS?
77 PHLapproach : Supposivly, it came out that the two sectors that were working this area didn't point out the aircraft to each other. So the sector working the 738 di
78 FMAL : I agree. It looks like the errors came from the Legacy, but this accident still makes no sense at all, so perhaps the controllers could have been mor
79 727forever : This is true if you are in your 172. Not necessarily the case with transport category jets. The CRJ has a rotary knob that has 3 positions. They are
80 727forever : One additional thing that nobody has focused on. In one of the reports it stated that there was an Embraer employed pilot on board the aircraft. It is
81 Antiuser : Dan Bachmann is an Embraer engineer, as far as I know he isn't a pilot. Indeed, when the information about the Legacy surfaced right after the accide
82 PITrules : US passports are property of the US State Department. It is not to be surrendered to anyone without conscent of a US government official.
83 Antiuser : As far as I know, the Department of State says that the surrendering of one's passport is a voluntary act on the part of the bearer, which may serve
84 WorldTraveler : as has been said, adult actions can carry severe consequeces, even if they are caused by accidents. if there is any indication of reckless or crimina
85 PITrules : I did not state having a US passport allows US citizens to violate foreign law. I implied that it is unlawful for foreign officials to seize a US pas
86 Post contains images Lightsaber : I've seen the most fierce copetitors cooperate to figure out a plane crash. Why? It hurts everyone's sales if they cannot figure out a way to make ai
87 RIHNOSAUR : are you sure about that........hmmm even if so: what if it there is a case in which another country's law requires a foreign national to surrender th
88 Lenbrazil : What law exactly would have been violated if the Brazilian authorities had seized the pilots' passports without their or their government’s permiss
89 57AZ : That's a non-starter. If Brazilian law permits the police to seize passports of foreign nationals suspected of committing a crime, there is nothing t
90 Varig : Thanks for that info...Actually I fly a Seminole which does use the same transponder as other GA aircraft. I knew that commercial aircraft had a diff
91 Post contains links Antiuser : So, according to this article, 3 congressmen from the Long Island area petitioned secretary of state Rice to intervene and get the pilots back to the
92 VEEREF : Both you and Worldtraveler need to go reread my post. I didn't say I wouldn't surrender it to anyone. I did say I wouldn't surrender it to just anyon
93 PPVRA : The passports were seized after a court order was issued. It wasn't the guy in the airport who took it from them. They were probably already in a hote
94 VEEREF : Exactly the way it should be done.
95 Lowrider : If I were these pilots, I would cooperate fully with any investigation, but I would do it either from an embassy, or, preferably, from home. Once the
96 Antiuser : They want to make sure the pilots were not at fault for the accident. Given the US' record on international law and extradition of US citizens, if th
97 Amazonphil : THanks! and your correct. Just wish people would think a little more or choose their wordage more carefully and/or show some respect toward others WH
98 Lowrider : While they may have some fault, dentention is usually reserved for someone suspected of a criminal act. I, for one, would try and get out of Dodge as
99 Donzilasse : Antiuser You are 100% correct. The Brazilians has not handled this anything different from how it would have been handled here in the U.S. If we would
100 Antiuser : I've said this probably 10 times already. They are NOT in detention - that would mean they'd be in jail! They are under the custody of the US consula
101 Antiuser : Exactly. There are bad apples everywhere. This is a very high-profile case, which involves many national and international interests - there is nothi
102 Gigneil : And that's why they've been detained. If they come back to the US, Brazil has no power to get them back. There IS suspicion that a crime has been com
103 Ukair : What about the Brazilian government siezing the passports of the ATC staff who where involved, would'nt that make it fairer, or is it a case of guilty
104 Donzilasse : Siezing passports is common while a country would like to keep foreign nationals from leaving until their investigation is completed. I assume that th
105 Gigneil : In the US it is common for judges to seize the passports of US citizens to keep them from fleeing the country, if they have the means and are deemed
106 57AZ : I cannot say whether it is common, only that is is possible that a passport will be invalidated or denied on proper request from law enforcement. I d
107 Lowrider : True, but it has also not been established that the pilots intentionally did anything wrong either. Does the Brazilian court system have any presumpt
108 Krist0f : IMHO, the entire seizure of the passport is quite common practice in all countries around the world, including the US and the EU, when dealing with m
109 Scbriml : Different countries have different laws. Look at the case of Senna dying in a race in Italy. The "case" against his team has been dragging on for yea
110 PPVRA : wrong thread... delete please [Edited 2006-10-07 17:38:51][Edited 2006-10-07 17:39:58]
111 RIHNOSAUR : ok ok I see, I have travelled to many places too, where you just can't hand over your passport to any one..but I interpreted originally that you woul
112 Gigneil : They DO, but just like here in the US, "don't leave town" is the word of the day. When you're under suspicion of a crime, you're at least morally, if
113 Cazito : The Brazilian government made the right decision in detaining the passports of the US pilots involved in the Gol crash in my humble opinion. The US go
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