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8 Abreast In Y On DC-10  
User currently offlineCoyoteguy From Mexico, joined Oct 2001, 442 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8928 times:

Good day all... came across this interesting photo in the database of an economy cabin on an American Airlines DC-10 in 1975... with 8 abreast seating. Looks like there was a nice space in the middle of the 4 seats in the center (nice wide double armrest I guess), and look at the size of the aisles. You could practically drive a car through there. No overhead bins in the center.


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Photo © Stefan Ottosson



As we all know, the DC-10 went to 9 abreast 2-5-2 as standard, with some carriers even doing 10 abreast 3-4-3.

Of course 1975 was back in the days of 'glamor', hot meals, free drinks, flight attendants who were actually there to enhance the passenger's enjoyment of the flight, etc etc. An interesting glance back to the days when flying was an adventure.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8912 times:

Yep, those were the days!!! And B747s used to have 9-abreast too!!!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

When they were first delivered L-1011's used the same 2-4-2 seating, with coat storage area between the four center seats.

User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8732 times:

Swissair used to have 2-4-2 until business class was launched. Before the planes used to be in a Eco/First Configuration. Then by introducing the 3 - class system, Swissair went as well to the terrible 2-5-2 configuration with the "famous middle seat".

Balair on the other hand at it's DC-10 in a 3-4-2 configuration, which was much better than the 2-5-2 one.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8705 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 3):
Balair on the other hand at it's DC-10 in a 3-4-2 configuration, which was much better than the 2-5-2 one.

I totally agree with this and I never understood why all DC-10 / MD-11 / B777 operators use the 3-4-2 config, which is far superior to the 2-5-2 config. Incidentally, Finnair and KLM also have 3-4-2 on their MD-11s.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8583 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 3):
Balair on the other hand at it's DC-10 in a 3-4-2 configuration, which was much better than the 2-5-2 one.



Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
Finnair and KLM also have 3-4-2 on their MD-11s.

SR/LX also ran 3-4-2 on their MD-11s



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8358 times:

The DC-10's and the L-1011's were delivered with 2-4-2 seating in Y. The 747 was 2-4-3. And the seat pitch was a minimum 36 inches. The Tri Jets sat about 210 people, and the 747 carried 365. Yes, those were the days, and flying coach was very comfortable. These seating arrangements lasted in the US until about 1977, or 1978. But there were a few airplanes configured differently. I flew LAX-HNL on Continental on a Ten in 1976 on some affinity group charter flight that was really just a way around regulated fares that had ten across in the Ten, and those seats were Small. But in the first few years of widebodies, flying on dual aisle aircraft, even in coach was a treat, not at all like today.

User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8342 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 6):
But in the first few years of widebodies, flying on dual aisle aircraft, even in coach was a treat, not at all like today

It may not be as much of a treat, but I'd still go reasonably out of my way to fly on a widebody...

Lincoln

[I've done LAX-ORD-DTW-PLN-DTW-ORD-LAX on a combination of UA and NW so that I could try out a 747-400 and a 777-200; then I did SAN-ATL-DTW-PLN-DTW-CVG-SAN on a combination of DL and NW to try a 767; got a DC-10 by chance LAX-DTW on NW once...If only I could figure out how I could snag a ride on a L-1011...]



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8309 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 6):
The Tri Jets sat about 210 people

Original L-1011 standard interiors had either 273 or 256 seats. I don't know about the DC-10 but it should have been similar.


User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8248 times:

I may be a little light at 210 seats but the L-1011's originally delivered to TW, EA, and DL didn't have 256 or 273 seats.

In checking a 1979 United DC-10 seating chart, the config was 40F and 214Y, but that was after the seating was changed to 9 across from 8, and the Coach lounge was removed, and the First Class lounge was reconfigured. The 214 Y seating did still include 36 inches of pitch.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8229 times:

Those seats look about the same size as today's seats. The entire width of the additional seat appears to be made up in wasted space in the middle and wasted space on the aisle. Pitch is another issue, but there is little advantage to the coach passenger to having 4 in the center instead of 5. Which is why that's the way things are now. 10-across is another issue.

User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 1):
And B747s used to have 9-abreast too

I remember those! My first flight was on an SAA 747 JNB - Ilo da Sol - JFK. 2-5-2 seating, my father and I sat in two seats, my mother and brother sat in the two seats behind us -- my brother and I had the window seats, and the inflight movie was Tootsie! (Did they have more than one movie? I don't remember) I remember it got mighty boring after a while too -- I was about 11 years old at the time.

Edit: spelling correction.

[Edited 2006-10-05 05:33:08]


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8149 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 6):
The DC-10's and the L-1011'srnwererndelivered with 2-4-2 seating in Y. The 747 was 2-4-3. And thernseatrnpitch was a minimum 36 inches. The Tri Jets sat about 210rnpeople, andrnthe 747 carried 365. Yes, those were the days, andrnflying coach wasrnvery comfortable

In short no one on a DC-10 or Tristar was ever more than one seat away from the aisle. Those were the days when the wide bodies were the planes to fly just for the comfort sake alone.


User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1374 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8121 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 9):
I may be a little light at 210 seats but the L-1011's originally delivered to TW, EA, and DL didn't have 256 or 273 seats

Not sure about the original delivery, but for the longest time TW had their L10's configured for 230, not sure of the F/Y breakdown..


User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

The seats were not at all like today's seats. The width of the Y seats was close to what Delta has in J and was the same as the Business Class seats of the 1980's, i.e KLM, Pan Am, Aerolinas Argentina's Business Class, all of which I flew, of the late 80's.

Delta's original 3 class L-1011's for HNL service in the late 80's also used these seats in Business Class.

The L-1011 had the funky divider. All three were comfortable, but I preferred the DC-10 and 747. No one ever complained about being packed in the back. The pitch was comparable to today's domestic first class.


User currently offlineB6DC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7833 times:

AA DC-10's were 9 abreast for most of the Y cabin, except the last 5 rows or so, where the back of the cabin curved inward...there it was 8 abreast.

User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7743 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
Incidentally, Finnair and KLM also have 3-4-2 on their MD-11s.

It's half and half on AY: first part of Y is 3-4-2, the rear part of Y is 3-4-3...



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7593 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 3):
Then by introducing the 3 - class system, Swissair went as well to the terrible 2-5-2 configuration with the "famous middle seat".

I don't think that's correct. I flew Swissair DC-10s as a kid, and when they went 9-abreast, were always 3-4-2. As were there MD-11s.

The 3-4-2 configuration is the best there is. I don't see why the much vaunted 777 can't provide that. 3-3-3 basically screws everyone except the 2 middle aisle seats. And 2-5-2 is just too horrible to even contemplate.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6872 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7585 times:

Just out of curiousity, did anyone operate a 3-3-3 seating on a DC10? just wondering why its only seen on the 777 in that config...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineRdwelch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7570 times:

Quoting Coyoteguy (Thread starter):
Of course 1975 was back in the days of 'glamor', hot meals, free drinks, flight attendants who were actually there to enhance the passenger's enjoyment of the flight, etc etc. An interesting glance back to the days when flying was an adventure.

........second hand smoke, you know, all the good stuff.

Gus


User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

American introduced DC-10 Service in late 1971. Coach had 2-4-2 seating, not nine across as alleged above. United, National, Western, Delta, Northwest, and Continental also introduced the DC-10 with 2-4-2 seating. Northwest flew the P&W powered long range Series 40 while the other carriers began service with the domestic Series 10's. I have no idea how SAS or Alitalia or any other non US airlines originally configured their Series 30 ships, or how JAL's Series 40's were originally equiped, as I did not fly on them prior to the mid 1980's; however, I flew on all the above domestic carrier's Series 10's on many occasions in the early and mid 70's, and on NW on Flight 3 ORD-ANC-TYO (HND) and every airplane I flew on was equiped that way until about 1977.

User currently onlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1674 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7337 times:
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When Eastern's L-1011s had 2-4-2 seating in coach, the seats had a control for the middle part of the seatback. In addition to reclining the seat, you could adjust the contour to fit your back comfortably. When Eastern went to 9-abreast, this control disappeared.

Also, I can give you some approximate dates for the switch, since I keep detailed flight records.

On 6/20/77, I flew ATL-MCO on N302EA, and seating was 2-4-2.
On 6/21/78, I flew ATL-LAX on N313EA, and seating was 2-5-2.
On 6/27/78, I flew LAX-ATL on N331EA, and seating was still 2-4-2.
On 6/29/78, I flew SEA-ATL-MCO on N302EA, and seating was 2-5-2.
I never again flew on an L-1011 or DC-10 with 8-abreast seating.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7220 times:

Quoting L1011 (Reply 21):
When Eastern's L-1011s had 2-4-2 seating in coach, the seats had a control for the middle part of the seatback. In addition to reclining the seat, you could adjust the contour to fit your back comfortably. When Eastern went to 9-abreast, this control disappeared.

Wow, certainly a case of progress going backwards. It's amazing some of the things that used to be offered in comparison to today. I really wish I had had the chance to be flying in the early 1970s.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

Correction for an above posting re SAA 747: the configuration was 3-4-2 as SAA had to make detours around Africa for their European flights due to sanctions and aircraft weight was a big issue.

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7014 times:

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 11):
I remember those! My first flight was on an SAA 747 JNB - Ilo da Sol - JFK. 2-5-2 seating, my father and I sat in two seats, my mother and brother sat in the two seats behind us -- my brother and I had the window seats, and the inflight movie was Tootsie! (Did they have more than one movie? I don't remember) I remember it got mighty boring after a while too -- I was about 11 years old at the time.

Tootsie came out in the mid-80's, right ? It would have been 3-4-3 in Y on the 747 around then. Possibly you were seated towards the rear, where it was 2-4-2.


25 LongHauler : When Air Canada introduced the L1011 in march 1973, it was configured in a 32F 225Y configuration. Economy was 8 abreast, in a 2X2 2X2 layout. Air Can
26 Post contains links and images LawnDart : Oh, yeah? View Large View MediumPhoto © Doug Bull
27 Milesrich : OH YEAH! Lawn Dart, that picture was taken in 1986 on Wardair. I never said anything about Wardair. I have never flown Wardair, but I can tell you in
28 Mason : I remember flying on Garuda's domestic DC-10s, 3-4-3 coach seating. Wow, that was tight! We used to transfer to CX in Jakarta, and it seemed like we w
29 Coyoteguy : I think you have missed the point. Glamor was dying by 1986 and Wardair was never really in that category in the first place as far as I know.
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