Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13711 posts, RR: 21 Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17907 times:
Humiliation at 33,000 feet: Top British architect tells of terror 'arrest'
To the applause of fellow passengers, the Jewish designer was escorted from a New York flight as a potential bomber. Because, he tells Sophie Goodchild, of his holiday tan
You have to pay £1 for the article. It's not worth that but it's worth a read nonetheless.
Basically, an hour into the flight, some idiot claiming to be a police officer grabbed him in a headlock and told him that he had been acting suspciously and should stay calm (in a headlock). The idiot removed the pax's passport.
A security check was done on him by the aircrew. Apologetic police officers met him at NYC.
American Airlines offerred him US$2 000 (is that all?) but withdrew saying it could be admission of liability. The letter read (fair use?):
"Unfortunately, as in any public gathering, there may be occasions when a conflict arises between people or when one individual's actions bother another... As our crew members may not always be witness to the inappropriate acts of a particular passenger, there may be a limit to what our crews can do to improve behaviour that is perceived as a nuisance."
He was escorted off the aircraft to applause by fellow passengers and felt humiliated.
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17914 times:
I hope he sues the a*** of AA. God, imagine what some of these people (like the one who put him in a headlock) what do if they were on an EK or GF flight. If someone did that to me and I'd be f****** hacked off (putting it lightly).
Sorry if this seems a bit hot headed but I really get annoyed when someone acts like a total a*** to someone just because of skin colour.
MDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17655 times:
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 1): I hope he sues the a*** of AA.
I was kinda hoping he would sue the "a***" (can't seem to think of an obscenity beginning with "a" and having four letters) off of whatever jerk put him in the headlock.
I'm kinda also hoping that the authorities also establish if the person in question was even a real LEO, and take appropriate actions against him if he wasn't.
I don't really see any culpability on the part of AA here.
Elite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2762 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17593 times:
Was he actually a police officer? What was the Jewish passenger doing that he deemed 'suspicious'? And it's sort of hard to stay calm after a complete stranger claiming to be a police officer puts you in a headlock, accuses you of acting suspiciously and then removes your passport.
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17540 times:
Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2): I was kinda hoping he would sue the "a***" (can't seem to think of an obscenity beginning with "a" and having four letters) off of whatever jerk put him in the headlock.
Iadbgo From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17534 times:
I saw this a couple of days ago in a US paper. I can't seem to find it right now, but search google news and I'm sure you'll find it.
The guy claiming to be a cop was not a LEO. The article didn't say anything about criminal charges against him. I don't want to get into a profiling debate here...but I think a lot of Americans have gotten themselves into that mentality. Sad when they create a situation like that simply because they think everyone that doesn't look like a white anglo-saxon protestant is a potential terrorist.
ThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17473 times:
Not only is this grossly stereotypical, but also is incredibly racist.
These people should be banned from flying if they behave in this manner.
Absolute MORONS.
Alex
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15814 posts, RR: 50 Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16933 times:
Quoting Singapore_Air (Thread starter): Basically, an hour into the flight, some idiot claiming to be a police officer grabbed him in a headlock and told him that he had been acting suspciously and should stay calm (in a headlock). The idiot removed the pax's passport.
Which one was offloaded, the idiot that grabbed the guy in a headlock, or the guy that was put in a headlock?
Cvg2lga From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 595 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16871 times:
Quoting Iadbgo (Reply 5): but I think a lot of Americans have gotten themselves into that mentality. Sad when they create a situation like that simply because they think everyone that doesn't look like a white anglo-saxon protestant is a potential terrorist.
Was the guy claiming to be an LEO indeed American? I honestly have no idea, am not flaming here! But just as a gross generalization that just because someone doesn't look like us or different makes them a terrorist, so is it that we all think that way. Everyone has their own opinions and assupmtions of everyone else. We don't hold nation meetings to decide who we will think of as a terrorist and who we won't based on what they look like.
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
DTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1424 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16826 times:
Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2): I was kinda hoping he would sue the "a***" (can't seem to think of an obscenity beginning with "a" and having four letters) off of whatever jerk put him in the headlock.
Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2): don't really see any culpability on the part of AA here.
I too don't think American is responsible for a single cent and they were being quite generous offering the man $2000. The man who headlocked him was not an employee of AA and was not acting on their behalf.
APFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16796 times:
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 11): I too don't think American is responsible for a single cent and they were being quite generous offering the man $2000. The man who headlocked him was not an employee of AA and was not acting on their behalf.
But if you read the article it says that the crew didn't intervene in anyway and failed to take any action
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16795 times:
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 11): I too don't think American is responsible for a single cent and they were being quite generous offering the man $2000. The man who headlocked him was not an employee of AA and was not acting on their behalf.
Have AA pressed charges against the law enforcement person who assaulted this passenger ? He was the one who disrupted the flight after all. This entire incident is outrageous, I hope the guy sues AA and this LEO jerk for everything they've got.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25869 posts, RR: 79 Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16597 times:
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 1): I hope he sues the a*** of AA.
Actually, if it is a FAM, I would make a FTCA claim. If it is a police officer, I would sue the City of New York
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
MDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16476 times:
Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 12): But if you read the article it says that the crew didn't intervene in anyway and failed to take any action
The proper action in the presence of a person claiming to be a LEO. It's not AA's place to intervene in the actions of a LEO, even if it turns out after the fact that he isn't one.
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13): Have AA pressed charges against the law enforcement person who assaulted this passenger ?
It would be the responsibility of the government to bring charges, not AA. The most AA could do is bring a civil case against the offender for losses incurred due to his actions.
The victim of course can urge the appropriate government entity to press criminal charges, but it's ultimately up to the prosecuting attorney to decide if any criminal case will go forward. The victim can also name anyone under the sun in a civil case.
Access-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16415 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 15): Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 1):
I hope he sues the a*** of AA.
Actually, if it is a FAM, I would make a FTCA claim. If it is a police officer, I would sue the City of New York
What is a FAM and what is an FTCA.....Pardon my ignorance of all thses silly acronyms....
I too think the guy needs to sue both American Airlines and this self proclaimed Law Enforcement Officer...What is going thru people's minds lately??
I believe in fighting terrorsim, but this is just stupid.....
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13711 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16420 times:
Oh i should have added this (from the article):
He has since been told by airline staff he was targeted because he was using an iPod, had used the toilet when he got on the plane and that his tan made him appear "Arab".
"Officials have told the architect that his assailant may work for another law enforcement agency but have refused to say which one."
"This man could have garrotted me and what was awful was that one or two of the passengers went up afterwards to thank him," said Mr Stein
N844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16377 times:
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59 Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16377 times:
Quoting Iadbgo (Reply 5): Sad when they create a situation like that simply because they think everyone that doesn't look like a white anglo-saxon protestant is a potential terrorist.
The only thing that surprises me in all this nonsense is that OBL and his guys have not been recruiting WASP looking folk actively. Hang on, that is our nice Mr Ruddock on the dog and bone. Oh. Mr R says OBL has been doing just that. What a nuisance.
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16353 times:
Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 18): He has since been told by airline staff he was targeted because he was using an iPod, had used the toilet when he got on the plane and that his tan made him appear "Arab".
Wow...he just describe half of the southern United States. I'm glad I live in Seattle where we're all palid, and that I don't own an iPod.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
APFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16326 times:
Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16): The proper action in the presence of a person claiming to be a LEO. It's not AA's place to intervene in the actions of a LEO, even if it turns out after the fact that he isn't one.
so someone with out any credentials displayed can pretend that they are a LEO and the airline is supposed to sit idly by. I find that hard to believe, obviously a FAM wouldn't have to display credentials because their identities are already known.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25869 posts, RR: 79 Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16062 times:
Quoting Access-Air (Reply 17): What is a FAM and what is an FTCA.....Pardon my ignorance of all thses silly acronyms....
Quoting N844AA (Reply 19): Federal Air Marshal and Federal Tort Claims Act.
Yep.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 34 Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16058 times:
Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 18): He has since been told by airline staff he was targeted because he was using an iPod, had used the toilet when he got on the plane and that his tan made him appear "Arab".
Might as well stop flying to AUA then, Id never make it home....
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
26 Jaysit: Attention all Jewish Residents of Florida !!!! Do not venture out to the beach without your bonnets.
27 Baroque: Phew, I don't have an ipod, oh wait a minute, I do have a beard. Oh sh**se.
28 Jacobin777: So because of the fact he is "Arab looking" and "using an "Ipod"..he should be targetted and taken down....this LEO needs to be put in the slammer fo
29 Marcus: I don't have an iPod but I have a Sony MP3 walkman does that count?
30 DZ09: Give me a break, if the guy was not jewish, you'll all be jumping on his throat, claiming we can never be too safe. Let's apply these stupid rules to
31 Baroque: Even with a Sony, being Marcus from Mexico you are home to the semis without raising a bead of sweat. See you there Marcus!
32 Lemurs: Wow, you know the minds and hearts of everyone here? That's amazing. You should work for the FBI. You could identify terrorists before they even did
33 JGPH1A: Nonsense - this is a clear case of assault. From what we've seen, the passenger in question had no weapon of any kind, had made no kind of threat aga
34 GeorgiaAME: See what happens when you don't go looking for real bombs? Actually, I choose to believe that this is the start of an urban folk tale.
35 Jonno: Another reason not to fly American! What would BA, VS, or any Asian airline have done? Was the police officer a Federal Marshal? What authority did he
36 Semsem: Here is the picture of Seth Stein. http://attu-pics.blogspot.com/2006/10/architect-seth-stein.html
37 ZOTAN: Give me a break ... Since when is having a tan and Ipod suspicious looking? The moronic passenger was being paranoid. Being jewish has nothing to do
38 MDorBust: Question for clarification: Is this a statement on the part of the airline admitting they targeted the passenger, or is this a statement released thr
39 BHMBAGLOCK: What exactly is suspicious in taking a dump, having a tan, and listening to music? Maybe the victim should start wearing a yarmulke when flying.
40 Singapore_Air: The statement is as is, from the article. Hence I would infer that the pax told the journalist who wrote the article that AA has since told him that
41 Coronado990: Humans and their security problems are starting to bore me. I'm going back to nature folks...
42 Jaysit: And if you're a tanned Jew returning home to NY after a weekend at Boca, make sure that you don't need to pee. And no Barbra on your ipod, either.
43 Glideslope: Ah, now I understand the A380 delays.
44 EXC47: Disgusting, to say the least ! Sue the idiot !
45 3201: Definitely bring your Stadium Buddy with you when flying, no suspicion-causing trips to the lav. Actually why don't they just take out the lavs? They
46 AA777223: I fail to see fault on the part of AA. None of their staff restrained the fellow. He should nail that "police officer".
47 FLY2LIM: Marco: Just make sure you don't play music in Spanish, could be mistaken for "arab sounding" and you may be detained, LOL. FLY2LIM
48 N1120A: Hmmm. I use my iPod on airplanes, have had to use the restroom pre-takeoff once or twice (as people do from time to time) and I am Middle Eastern. I
49 Pope: Why not AA? As a public carrier, common law generally imposes a higher standard of care on them then just about anyone else.
50 Traineepilot: I hate people who sue anybody for anything. To start, why sue AA, wasnt it a fellow passenger 'claiming' to be a police office put him in the head lo
51 B707Stu: So let me get this straight. A passenger, who's been cleared to travel and secured through normal LHR security boards an AA aircraft. He goes to the
52 Gary2880: Excellent! So now people can claim to be part of law enforcement, do whatever they like at 36,000ft and the cabin crew will sit back and take a nap.
53 Tmarch291: Thats a very broad generalization. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who lives south of the Mason-Dickson is a redneck... By the way, I live i
54 Lemurs: Huh? I was saying that "tan with an iPod" describes half the southern United States. I think people in New Mexico, SoCal, and Arizona also fall into
55 Sv2008: I'm worried to use my music player when I fly tomorrow now! Never mind take pictures and video!
56 IH8B6: What is the crew supposed to do??? Say you have five small female flight attendants. Should they try to intervene? Sue sue sue...why should AA be sue
57 Traineepilot: There not on the up, but people are not afraid now to be more racist than before, me included. Also, why do people first say lets start to sue somebo
58 Aviateur: The phenomenon of passenger vigilantism was on the increase after September 11th, then received another nudge after the liquid bomb farce. I was hopin
59 Singapore_Air: Well that's an illogical statement isn't it. You may want to rethink.
60 Pilot3033: Neglect. The AA crew should have checked the mans credentails. But even before that, who has jurisdiciton on a U.S. aircraft? FAMs. If none are onboa
61 Starlionblue: Dear God man. We should profile you! You're clearly a deviant. Technically the radical Islamist terrorists are the worst kind of racist arseholes so
62 Jacobin777: terrorists and racists aresholes are the same..we don't need to add "Islamic" terrorists....
63 WildcatYXU: Can't help it, but I'm missing one part of the story. What happened to the so called LEO? Impersonate a police officer is AFAIK a criminal offense (pl
64 ThirtyEcho: When this guy owns his own AA 777 for life, complete with flight crew, maintenance and fuel, I hope that he invites me along for a free trip. I like C
65 FlyDreamliner: Man, now I feel a little bit better about being all but unable to get any sort of tan. Yep. Agreed. How is AA liable for this? I'm not sure if you ar
66 N1120A: I take it you mean common carrier? As a common carrier, both the common law and the various codes do present a greater fiduciary duty, though AA has
67 Gary2880: On the contrary, i think your scared shitless friend enjoy your racism, may it bring you years of happiness etc etc. May even bring you a smack in th
68 MEA-707: again, we didn't hear the full story from both sides. Maybe the pax was acting very annoying, argumentative, wanting to walk out in the direction of t
69 Singapore_Air: It could also confirm the sweeping assumption that the general public are less tolerant now (understandable) but also ignorant and stupid. From the a
70 N754PR: Sums up why most people these days dont want to fly to the US and for sure not on a US carrier. Its agreat shame when idiots like that guy think they
71 MDorBust: Then the person claiming to be a LEO should be charged with the appropriate crimes, including impersonating an officer of the law. Then don't. Please
72 Starlionblue: First of all, I did not say Islamic. I said Islamist. There is a crucial difference. Also, technically not all terrorists are racist. Anti-globalizat
73 Jacobin777: Care to point out this "crucial difference"? I'm quite curious... And? Most of the so-called "Islamist" terrorists aren't racists either...they kill
74 Starlionblue: Absolutely. A person who is "Islamic" has the Islamic faith or at least an Islamic viewpoint in life. I have no argument with these, and neither shou
75 Pope: Agreed, but isn't that the question? What precisely was this person's status? My understanding is that an off duty police officer (not a federal agen
76 Sleak76: Islamist is a noun. Islamic is an adjective. Hardly much of a difference in meaning, let alone a 'crucial' one.
77 Starlionblue: I agree that Islamist is a noun, but I have frequently seen it used as an adjective in the US press. As in "Islamist person". And I would say that in
78 Gary2880: So they pick his remains out of the wreckage and put them into a cell for life, that`ll teach him. When i said ''too late'' i meant ''too late'' in t
79 1stfl94: The hijackers of Air France 8969 in 1994 disguised themselves as Algerian security people. If someone is claiming to be an LEO in any situation then
80 N1120A: I reread and saw this happened in international air space. In that case, he had no jurisdiction unless mandated by a directive (as LAPD officers have
81 MDorBust: Stop being so damn dramatic. It's pretty obvious to anyone that a person attempting to hijack an airplane isn't acting as a LEO, so you can spare us
82 Singapore_Air: So if me and a friend play a prank and I get him in a headlock, I can be an LEO too? Cool! You're not exactly trying to be the cuddly officer next do
83 Jacobin777: I'm sure you know the US press is not the best source of credible information when it comes to the "war on terror"........especially Fox News.. ....
84 1stfl94: I have asked previous LEO's for ID when they are in plaincloths while I was working on a reception desk and most of them show ID before doing anythin
85 1stfl94: I have asked previous LEO's for ID when they are in plaincloths while I was working on a reception desk and most of them show ID before doing anythin
86 MDorBust: Not even worth comment. A LEO physically restraining a suspect is an altercation. A headlock is an altercation. A power trip? Please, go re-read my e
87 Singapore_Air: That's because you cannot defend your comment. From the evidence presented in this thread, and presuming you haven't seen any evidence that we haven'
88 MDorBust: No, because your comment was completely off base, unsubstantiated, and unsupported by anything I have presented. If you want to believe that putting
89 Singapore_Air: It seems you think that I have said something about American Airlines' legal liability. I have not. Again, on the basis that we have the same evidence
90 MDorBust: Then why are you responding? The legal liability of AA is the whole point of my posts. See, this is where you go off the path again. Read these four
91 Singapore_Air: To clarify, I don't give a damn about AA's liability yet. I've picked up on an errant thought of yours. The two combined = The magic is lost.
92 Starlionblue: Absolutely. But if we look beyond the correct or not semantics for a second... My point is that there is a difference between a religious devout and
93 MDorBust: I ask again, why are you responding then? The issue of AA having or not having established the mans true identity during the period of culpability is
94 Jacobin777: I should have been clearer...is this the "official" version? That's what it sounds like to me.....and that's what I got from your comments...maybe th
95 Singapore_Air: Again, don't care about that part of the debate... yet That's partly what I wanted. It's better than you making the sweeping statement of: No one wou
96 MDorBust: It's only a sweeping statement when you fail to consider the context of the comment. I've never contested that. Which was at the time of the incident
97 Starlionblue: I think we agreed on the substance the whole time. I just like to argue semantics for the heck of it. Even when I may be wrong.
98 TransWorldSTL: Doesn't the flight crew know ahead of time about Federal Air Marshalls aboard flights? If so, it would have been obvious thats not what he was.. And h
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