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NW Confident In Getting The China Route  
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7764 times:

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../20061005/OPINION01/610050308/1008

Detroit News Editorial reasoning:
1) NW's Asia experience
2) DTW facility

NW's reasoning:

"At the end of the day, this is going to be based on economic and public benefit," says Andrea Fisher Newman, senior vice president of government affairs for Northwest. "I think we accomplish that better than anyone."

I don't think many at a.net have give NW any hope in getting the non-stop authority...Is NW talking "non-sense"?

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3990 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

No, the armchair quarterbacks at airliners.net are talking "non-sense." Let's not forget that NWA flew both PEK and SHA nonstop from DTW in the past. Due to SARS and 9/11 the routes became uneconomical. Now in a different environment NWA can make it work again and most definitely has the where-with-all to do it and do it well.






AZJ

[Edited 2006-10-05 16:13:34]

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../20061005/OPINION01/610050308/1008

Detroit News Editorial reasoning:
1) NW's Asia experience
2) DTW facility

NW's reasoning:

"At the end of the day, this is going to be based on economic and public benefit," says Andrea Fisher Newman, senior vice president of government affairs for Northwest. "I think we accomplish that better than anyone."

I don't think many at a.net have give NW any hope in getting the non-stop authority...Is NW talking "non-sense"?

First of all, I would love to see Detroit/NW get the route.

Secondly, this is the Detroit News speaking, I would expect the same spin from Houston, Newark, Dallas, and Chicago papers regarding their respective hub airlines, not really news of any kind here.


User currently offlineBoslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

NW has the authority to operate the route right now, but they choose to use their authority to serve China from Tokyo. There are always behind the scenes lobbying efforts in these route cases and sometimes the route that benefits the most people and creates the largest economic benefits does not win. Cheer leading at its best from the Detroit Free Press.

User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7669 times:

I think that NW will do very very well if they get the route. What they said in the article makes sense. I know that when I have flown CO, I have had to make a double connection from CLE-ERW before reaching the destination. When I fly NW, I just connect through DTW and am on my way.

By far, IMO, the Northwest World Gateway is one of the most impressive hubs I have been through. It is not that hard to navigate through and easy to get from point a to point b



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineLH417AF025 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7628 times:

personally i think that in terms of economics and most importantly polictical benefit, united has it in the bag. its the politicians that are going to decide. UA offering the route from our nations capital, nonstop to one of the worlds most booming economies i think makes them kind of have it in the bag.

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7582 times:

The arguement can be made that if this route was so important to Detroit, NW airlines and the travelling public, they could launch it tomorrow. They have the rights to do so - they could easily dedicate their NRT-PEK frequency to Detroit. The same logic applies to UA - they could launch IAD-PEK tomorrow if they wanted. And I wouldn't be surprised if either (or both) will if they are not selected in the current round of China frequencies.

I still believe the decision will come down between AA and CO...


User currently offlineBoslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7566 times:

United currently holds the most China route rights with Northwest a close second. If the USDOT is looking to even the playing field, then its between American and Continental.

User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7526 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
The arguement can be made that if this route was so important to Detroit, NW airlines and the travelling public, they could launch it tomorrow. They have the rights to do so - they could easily dedicate their NRT-PEK frequency to Detroit. The same logic applies to UA - they could launch IAD-PEK tomorrow if they wanted.

AA could also launch DFW-PEK tomorrow. Simply shift their flight from ORD. Same thing for CO. The point is UA, AA or CO would have to sacrifice a current USA-China flight to start a new one. There would be no net gain of nonstop USA-China service.

NW, on the other hand, could start a USA-China flight by shifting a Tokyo-China flight. That would greatly benefit USA-China travel by increasing nonstop options, but NW chooses not to do so. NW is not helping nonstop travel between the USA and China because they choose not to use their rights on nonstops from the USA.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7505 times:

Of course they're confident. So was American about getting China in '05, and Delta in '06. If Northwest wasn't confident, then what are they in business for? The reality, though, of course, is that Northwest probably has about the slightest chance of all four of actually getting the authority because, as others have already said, they already have triple the frequencies of American and Continental, and already "waste" their authorities -- for lack of a better word -- by using them for Tokyo-China flights instead of nonstop U.S.-China flights.

User currently offlineUnitedNRT From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 284 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 8):

AA could also launch DFW-PEK tomorrow.

The route is not transferable IIRC. It'll stay ORD-PVG.



"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7230 times:

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 8):
AA could also launch DFW-PEK tomorrow. Simply shift their flight from ORD. Same thing for CO. The point is UA, AA or CO would have to sacrifice a current USA-China flight to start a new one. There would be no net gain of nonstop USA-China service.

No, they can't. US-China routes are no longer transferable, and, IIRC, NW's routes are only transferable in that they just have to be direct or non-stop from Detroit.



a.
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7184 times:

I wish the new China route was at MSP.  Sad How come NW proposed the route to be from DTW-Shangai?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4052 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 9):
Of course they're confident. So was American about getting China in '05, and Delta in '06.

Any vice president of a large corporation can state they are confident without being so. That was taught in the MBA, or in this case, law school.  wink 

If Northwest's leadership is indeed confident they will get a route award to China it shows they have difficulty looking cooly into their own position in competitive situations.



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User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 12):
How come NW proposed the route to be from DTW-Shangai?

Oh, I don't know, perhaps the Billion dollar investment in the Worldgateway!


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User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7069 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 14):
Oh, I don't know, perhaps the Billion dollar investment in the Worldgateway!

DFW spent as much as DTW, and they have what to show for it?

DEN spent as much as DTW, and they have what to show for it?

Northwest Airlines has been flying to Peking, Canton, and Shanghai daily from Narita. Why should they be given Detroit nonstop to China in addition to what they already have? As much as I enjoy Northwest Airlines. I think they are presuming a bit to much. The strongest applications would seem to be United Airlines, and American Airlines . Both airlines are offering service in markets without service to China and a strong demand for both O/D and transit. How does DTW compare to DFW, and IAD for O/D?


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7069 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 14):
Oh, I don't know, perhaps the Billion dollar investment in the Worldgateway!

DFW spent as much as DTW, and they have what to show for it?

DEN spent as much as DTW, and they have what to show for it?

Northwest Airlines has been flying to Peking, Canton, and Shanghai daily from Narita. Why should they be given Detroit nonstop to China in addition to what they already have? As much as I enjoy Northwest Airlines. I think they are presuming a bit to much. The strongest applications would seem to be United Airlines, and American Airlines . Both airlines are offering service in markets without service to China and a strong demand for both O/D and transit. How does DTW compare to DFW, and IAD for O/D?

The question was why DTW over MSP, nothing more nothing less. DTW is the international gateway for NW.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7020 times:

The DoT is one of the most political institutions in the U.S. government, so I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if NW was awarded the route. There’s no doubt that on paper, CO has the best proposal. No other application comes close. Period. But that being the case CO EWR PVG route was denied last go around for no other reason than politics. So who’s to say it won’t happen again this time?

Last go around the DoT was put in a tough political situation, they knew that CO’s EWR PEK and EWR PVG routes were superior but awarding both routes to CO would mean that this go around only CO, UA and NW would be eligible to apply for a new authority.

Imagine if CO only had to compete against UA and NW this go around? CO likely would have proposed IAH PVG service. IMO the DoT probably would have awarded such a route, but the implications for AA and DL in 2008 would have been significant.

All I’m saying is to think that the worst application will be so easily denied is a bit naive.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

CO and AA. NW has no chance at all. Not even a little. For the reason that keeps coming up: They can serve the route tomorrow, they choose not to. Same with UA. AA provides a great feed through DFW and CO provides point to point to NYC. I will be personally shocked if CO or AA doesnt get it. But of all the airlines NW has the least chance.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7000 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 17):
There’s no doubt that on paper, CO has the best proposal. No other application comes close. Period.

Um, yes, there is doubt, and for people other than you, there are other applications that "come close." Period.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6988 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
Um, yes, there is doubt, and for people other than you, there are other applications that "come close." Period

CO is proposing connecting the most populace city in the U.S. with the most populace city in China and connecting the business capital of the world with the business capital of China.

Please explain how any other application comes close?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6975 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):

CO is proposing connecting the most populace city in the U.S. with the most populace city in China and connecting the business capital of the world with the business capital of China.

Please explain how any other application comes close?

Multiple reasons why CO's application is weaker than others. Among them are that it is of minimal benefit to travelers outside the East Coast and parts of the interior Eastern US, that New York City already has multiple daily non-stops to China and Hong Kong, including non-stop service to Shanghai starting this winter on China Eastern, and that CO already offers two daily Newark-China flights, to Beijing and Hong Kong.

That being said, all the applications have their weak points, but CO is far from being a shoe-in. I say it's AA or UA. Until recently I would have said AA or CO, but UA's application has too much political connection to not be a strong contender.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6956 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):
Please explain how any other application comes close?

Those that offer:

a) a new gateway to China
b) a new Chinese market for a weaker U.S. carrier
c) service in a market that has no other nonstop flights
d) domestic distribution within China
e) the first ever nonstop link to a rapidly-developing/globalizing region of the U.S.
f) service to the sight of the Olympics coming up in less than two years
g) service to the second largest hub on earth


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6951 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Multiple reasons why CO's application is weaker than others. Among them are that it is of minimal benefit to travelers outside the East Coast and parts of the interior Eastern US, that New York City already has multiple daily non-stops to China and Hong Kong, including non-stop service to Shanghai starting this winter on China Eastern, and that CO already offers two daily Newark-China flights, to Beijing and Hong Kong.

Would you not agree that the largest O&D market in the U.S. is being underserved by not having any U.S. flag service to PVG?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Until recently I would have said AA or CO, but UA's application has too much political connection to not be a strong contender.

Are you referring to House Speaker Hastert? The same guy who’s about to be ousted from congress.

[Edited 2006-10-06 01:31:19]

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6951 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):
CO is proposing connecting the most populace city in the U.S. with the most populace city in China and connecting the business capital of the world with the business capital of China.

Please explain how any other application comes close?

O&D is only one side of the arguement. The feed is POOR at EWR compared to DFW. Service at EWR neglects so much of the country. I will definately acknowledge that EWR will produce the most O&D, but there are other factors to consider as well.

MU is also starting service from JFK-PVG. While its true that the DOT doesnt care about foreign carriers, but that doesnt change the fact that the route will get served. If CO get that route, there will be two nonstops from NYC to PVG and maybe the DOT thinks that route to China will be better elsewhere.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 102IAHexpress : This is a good point. But unfortunately your only good point. Weaker carrier? Isn’t AA the largest carrier on Earth? For all the globalizing you sp
26 Commavia : I was referring to weaker carriers in the U.S.-China market, which includes both AA and CO. I was referring to the southern United States, not just t
27 Zone1 : I agree. Mike Boyd has his chips on UA winning this round because of the politics involved.
28 102IAHexpress : I think you’re not getting what I’m saying. It shouldn’t be about opinions it should be about facts. And in this matter the facts clearly have
29 MAH4546 : No, I would not, because it has non-stop service to China already, and various cities in Asia, on US and Asian airlines. Also, Los Angeles is America
30 Commavia : Do you honestly not hear what your words sound like? Indeed it should be about "facts." The problem, however, is that you are only picking "facts" th
31 102IAHexpress : Using that logic, do you think it was wrong of the DoT to award AA the ORD PVG route? Sorry, I still don’t know who you’re referring to specifica
32 102IAHexpress : Agreed. The facts would suggest that AA’s DFW hub is better at serving markets like Wichita Falls, Texas and Shreveport Louisiana than say CO’s E
33 Post contains images BigGSFO : President Bush probably still calls it "Peking" and can't find it on a map. No doubt the lobbiests are hitting the Hill aggressively over this one. O
34 LAXdude1023 : HAHAHA!!! Loving it!!! Both CO and AA have strong arguements. To say that CO has the best arguement hands down is not right. They have a very good sh
35 Commavia : Once again, the concept of "facts" seems to break down whenever you type. Sure, D/FW would offer connections to Wichita Falls and Shreveport. It woul
36 MAH4546 : No, because it was stronger than the other applications at that time.
37 102IAHexpress : Commavia, I tip my hat to you; it takes a big man to bow out of a debate with courtesy and respect.
38 102IAHexpress : So, 14X weekly ORD PVG was better than 0X weekly EWR PVG?
39 Luv2fly : Myself I see CO or NW getting the route. Though in time we will find out just who wins this race.
40 SHUPirate1 : Just out of sheer morbid curiousity, does anybody know what each airline's timings of their flights are going to be? I could find for AA and NW, but n
41 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : Actually they filed a petition for reconsideration. http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p86/405608.pdf
42 SHUPirate1 : " target=_blank>http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p86/4...8.pdf Good catch...I remembered that that filing included the specify-route clause (bullet thre
43 MAH4546 : It had more to do with that. The 14 frequencies that were up for grabs for 2005 and 2006 were up to grabs to new entrant carriers. DOT was not going
44 PVG : Outrageously short-term thinking on NWA's part. Think of the money they'd be printing these last 2 years or so if they still had routes (although I u
45 N501US : A great baggage handling system?
46 102IAHexpress : I can buy into the DoT’s political assessment, but why 14x weekly ORD PVG instead of 7x weekly EWR PEK and 7x weekly ATL PEK (it might have been AT
47 MAH4546 : Because Delta's application was weaker than AA's. The Chicago market is significantly larger than Atlanta, and provides better hub connectivity than
48 102IAHexpress : I agree with that. But assuming the DoT makes a similar assessment this time, would you not also agree that the Newark/New York market is significant
49 Isitsafenow : The route will go to the carrier that is "sickest" financially. Watch and heed. safe
50 Af773atmsp : NW could at least try to make a new route (MSP-CDG) since there is already non stop service to LGW. Any airport with London flights must have Paris fl
51 Incitatus : I disagree. If the DoT wants to make sure the market is competitive, then it should have multiple airlines serving it. The last time around it increa
52 Burnsie28 : I think the government will do whats best for the consumers, the Washington D.C. is not that big of market and non-stop to Beijing is already well pl
53 MAH4546 : Yes. No. Dallas provides an easy connection point from just about every city in the lower 48, even those on the West Coast. Newark does not.
54 Boslax : Just for kicks, lets assume a carrier other than NW wins the China Authority. Will NW look long and hard at re-entering the DTW-PVG market in order to
55 Post contains images 102IAHexpress : Dude, I think you’ve gone off your rocker. Are you really going to tell this forum that someone on the West coast would seriously consider connecti
56 Fewsolarge : How's this for a press release: Self Conscious Northwest Not Really Sure It Has A Chance On China Route ... confidence is all part of the game.
57 B2443 : It did not after UA converted ALL its one-stop to China to non-stop. It did not after AA and CO got non-stops to China. I am not sure whether an addi
58 Incitatus : You might have inadvertently glossed over it, so one needs to qualify what you mean by "west coast". It is exactly four markets: LAX, SFO, PDX and SE
59 Incitatus : How about abstaining from applying and using money and employee time on initiatives that have a higher likelihood of success?
60 Ikramerica : You must live in Erie, Southern NY state (but not Buffalo), South Bend, Forth Wayne, Toledo, or West Virginia. Cuz those are the only places that is
61 Ejmmsu : NW uses the AS codeshare to connect people from SAN, SLC, LAS, PHX, etc to their PDX and SEA to NRT flights, and then on to china. Also, NW has a dai
62 QFSYD744 : Routings like PEK-DFW-LAX, PEK-DFW-SFO, PEK-DFW-SEA are not a reality.
63 AADC10 : DEN is an all new airport with several times the capacity of DTW. Its size was sapped by CO's withdrawal and UA's Ch. 11. It is also squeezed for int
64 Gigneil : Washington, DC is the second largest market that's been applied for, after New York. NS
65 Cslusarc : I think that NW has no chance in H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks in getting combination route frequencies for spring 2007. Although I think that AA has a str
66 MCOGVADCA : My money's on CO. As a current resident of the PRC and a Florida native, I unequivocally have a vested interest in the various proposed routes. I've b
67 MCOGVADCA : or shenyang for that matter..it has a US consulate and is conveniently placed for connections within china
68 Bobnwa : When did we start talking about MSP to Europe and Mexico flights? I must have missed the segue.
69 Post contains images QFSYD744 : You mean the segue about Northwest Airlines starting MSP-CDG with the 747-400? Joking of course!
70 LAXdude1023 : I do know that a handful of people did KIX-DFW-LAX. Its a pain in the butt, but lots of people have done it. CO or AA that the bottom line. UA or NW
71 PVG : I think that Hangzhou or Chongqing or Nanjing might be interesting as well. Although, I think that we'll have to wait for the 787 be widely in use be
72 PVG : When is the final decision due to be annouced by the way?
73 FlyDreamliner : Well, they flew this route successfully before 9/11. They've proven they can do it, no one else has that. the world gateway is huge, NW is proven on
74 Post contains images PEK18R36L : They can't compete. The route is already dominated by JL, NH, and UA, with JL even connecting PEK-NRT-KOA. From our side of the pond, the demand is f
75 PVG : Amazing isn't it? How is it that the product offering between the Asian airlines and US airlines are so different and that they continue to get away
76 PEK18R36L : It's a scandal. As capacity and competition grow on China-US routes, as Chinese carriers upgrade service and aircraft, and as more Asian carriers off
77 PVG : I'm tempted to try the new MU flight to JFK. I've always avoided the Chinese airlines on long-haul flights, but may give it a try. The time savings a
78 PEK18R36L : If nothing else, the FA's will be friendlier. A word to the wise - try to fly business class and order a special meal. You'll have a better flight ei
79 Post contains images MCOGVADCA : you may be tempted, but i've heard way too many MU/CA stories to take that kind of chance (i'm actually going all the way to taibei in jan to fly SQ b
80 AADC10 : NW's application is really a bit of a joke. They are the only applicant currently in bankruptcy, which does count against them. They previously stoppe
81 PVG : Didn't want to talk about the FA's so as not to insult anyone who might be reading here, but anyone who has ever flown the UA or NW intra-Asian fligh
82 Allstarflyer : I think they're talking big, but not talking nonsense. Projecting a confindent image isn't a bad thing - heck, confidence is necessary to having a wi
83 A330323X : All I have to say is that I think it's amusing that *everyone* here seems to be under the impression that one carrier must be and will be awarded all
84 Ejmmsu : One thing to keep in mind is that NW has flights to DTW from many cities in the south. Most of NW's MEM-only stations don't have service on AA to DFW
85 PVG : Interesting point. If that's the case, I think that CO&UA get it. 4x weekly EWR-PVG/3x weekly IAD-PEK.
86 LAXdude1023 : I dont know of many MEM only stations that do not have service to DFW. Tupelo is the only one that comes to mind, give or take one or two more.
87 Hjulicher : If CO gets the route authority, will they have the aircraft to begin service immediately without removing seats from another city pair. In this case,
88 Ejmmsu : MSL GLH PIB MGM come to mind.. I forgot that just recently MLU, AEX, and LFT got AA service.
89 SHUPirate1 : This will likely play a minute, if that, part in the DOT's selection. Bear in mind that UA flies ORD-PVG on a 777, rather than a 744, and NW flies NR
90 LAXdude1023 : Thats part of it, but not nearly all of it. Amount of frequencies, the markets served, the best opprotunites for connections, etc. all play a part to
91 SHUPirate1 : Very true...speaking of which, does anybody have a list of the timings each of the airlines will use for their flights? I'll be interested to see how
92 B2443 : Looks like NW has done the analysis. The previous DTW-PVG service departing DTW around 4pm EST; PVG-DTW arrival time was around 10am EST. That would
93 SHUPirate1 : OK...looks like some digging around (and some 200 MB worth of downloads) got me the answers I was looking for: AA DFW 11:00 AM-PEK 2:30 PM, PEK 4:45 P
94 A330323X : Well, yes, since several of the carriers have Chinese codeshare partners and would be offering online connections beyond their Chinese gateway, which
95 Gigneil : Leaving at noon and returning around 4 to 6 PM is an optimum time for connecting here in the US. NS
96 Burnsie28 : Not really, getting in at 6pm arrival, assuming its dead on time, would mean the earliest you would likely get out of customs would be 7, with that,
97 SHUPirate1 : FYI, based on what I have attempted to find, here's the latest you can get into (and earliest out of) each gateway airport and still make the correspo
98 Jetjack74 : What nonsense. UA applied for and recieved additional n/s service between the US and China in the middle of their bankruptcy. So whether we're in ban
99 Post contains images SHUPirate1 : For what it's worth, here are the list of new (ie. not possible pre-allocation on a US-based carrier) one-connection cities that are actually reasonab
100 SHUPirate1 : OK, here's the full list of cities that meet the above criteria (no more than a three-hour connection in either direction, plus a total mileage count
101 B2443 : So can we conclude NW's claim was true? it would be interesting to know the numbers of the available seats on the connecting flights?
102 SHUPirate1 : Honestly, I'm not sure that's applicable to the discussion, as regardless of how many seats feed in, chances are, on all four of those flights, the p
103 Vincewy : If I can vote, my vote goes to AA, this will provide the only link between Southern US to China. If DL is in the petition too for ATL-PEK/PVG, AA and
104 Supa7E7 : Thanks for compiling this. First, the AA bid looks ridiculous. ABI, MOB, etc? Come on. All those small towns together won't have even 50 pax a day. I
105 LAXdude1023 : No it doesnt. One area this doesnt adress is the latin American feed, which AA at DFW has got nailed. Niether EWR, DTW, or IAD have the latin America
106 A330323X : DOT doesn't care about Latin American feed; it wants benefits for U.S. passengers. In fact, inasmuch as Latin America-China traffic could displace lo
107 SHUPirate1 : Actually, the connection times for those LatAm destinations are quite dismal. BTW, if you didn't notice, AA had a handful of Mexican cities in that l
108 LAXdude1023 : I realize this might not be somthing the DOT would take into consideration, but Latin American connections would add to the usefulness of the route.
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