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NW Orders CRJ900 And E175  
User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 636 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11555 times:

72 aircraft ordered. 36 CRJ900 and 36 E175s, deliveries starting 2nd quarter 2007.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061005/cgth064.html?.v=51

84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11560 times:

Well.... Here's the start....

Peace   

[Edited 2006-10-05 23:08:36]


AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 1):
Well.... Here's the start.... Finally no more, "when will NW replace the DC-9?" threads.

Not quite!

"Discussing a future replacement for Northwest's DC-9 aircraft, Steenland said, "We are continuing to meet with aircraft manufacturers to review our requirements for a 100-seat aircraft that would replace our DC-9s."


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11443 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quote:
An Airlink partner, to be determined at a later date, will operate the 36 Bombardier aircraft.

This could be what saves XJ if we're lucky.  crossfingers 



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11442 times:

I don't think this order really replaces the DC-9 except for maybe a small number. The primary goals of this order is to replace the ARJ, open up some new long-thin routes and upgrade some markets currently flown with 50 seaters.

Hopefully, we can see some of those CRJ900's or E175's from MEM to PNS. The 50 seaters just aren't enough capacity.


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11377 times:

Make no sense to me why two different manufacterers were selected.  Confused

User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11347 times:

Can't wait to hear the "But they're in bankrupcy replies..." that would be so rampant had this been Delta. Anyway, good for NW. It's about time that they ordered some planes for Compass. But this isn't a DC-9 replacement so people should not from the start. The article clearly states that NW is reviewing an order for a DC-9 replacement, which would likely be the EMB-190/195 from thr rumors I've heard. They're gonna look great in NW's livery!

Jeremy


User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2850 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11322 times:

Well, will we see the CR9 or E175 in OKC, I would rather see the E175 in NW colors, but OKC will probably see the CR9. ALthough we are getting a few of their DC-9's.

-Matt  Smile



No info
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11323 times:

I like this comment:

"The 12 first class seats, arranged in a one seat-aisle-two seats configuration, will have 36 inches of pitch, or space between rows. Coach class, arranged in a two seats-aisle-two seats configuration, will have pitch comparable to other aircraft in the airline's current mainline fleet."

I love how they are too afraid (embarrassed) to actually state the coach pitch.  Smile

On the bright side, I think it's going to be great for their customers to have the first class option on more of the network.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11271 times:

Good for NW!! Maybe they'll put a second MSP-TUS flight for the winter/spring months, as I remember it, the daily A319(sometimes swapped for the A320) goes out at around a 90% load factor, even in the summer.

[Edited 2006-10-05 23:59:53]

[Edited 2006-10-06 00:00:48]

User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11242 times:

At least theres one good thing today since school was miserable. I was watching some DC-9s fly over the school. In 2007 I might be seeing some new NW aircrafts in town.  Smile


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11240 times:

Are the CR9s for anyone who bids to fly them or are they for Compass or Mainline? It specifically states the E175s are for Compass but doesn't mention the CR9s.

Thanks


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6441 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11211 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
It specifically states the E175s are for Compass but doesn't mention the CR9s.

From the article... An Airlink partner, to be determined at a later date, will operate the 36 Bombardier aircraft.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4069 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11187 times:

Quoting ChrisA330 (Reply 2):
"Discussing a future replacement for Northwest's DC-9 aircraft, Steenland said, "We are continuing to meet with aircraft manufacturers to review our requirements for a 100-seat aircraft that would replace our DC-9s."

Airlines don't have to replace aircraft on a one-by-one or same seat count -to- same seat count basis. I expect these airplanes to be deployed in many routes flown by DC9s currently, so, yes, they are a partial replacement. Actually a cost effective way to shed seats that are now going to priceline or empty, but still maintain the same market presence.

I still fail to grasp the reason for a CRJ-900 / EMB175 split.



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User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11190 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 5):
Make no sense to me why two different manufacterers were selected.

It worked for AC. I'm guessing they got a decent deal on the CRJ900's in exchange for taking the 15 CRJ200's that they had rejected leases on.

They also might be less pricey than the 175's, so it allows them to offer an aircraft that is perhaps a little less desirable for shorter, less lucrative routes, while putting the 175 onto longer, more business-type routes.

If the thought of eventually merging Compass into mainline ever comes to pass, then the CRJ's would be in Airlink (consistent product) while the 175/195 (if ordered) would be in Mainline.

Just a thought.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11186 times:

Air Canada also split between Bombardier and Embraer, so there is precedent.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11085 times:

Well, judging by seat configs from bombardier, looks like there will be a 34'' pitch in econ, and a 37'' pitch in FC.
Big version: Width: 509 Height: 86 File size: 15kb
The NW config will probably have the single econ seat removed, and have 2 FC seats added.(the seat map is for the CRJ-705, which is virtually the same as a CRJ-900 but with First Class added)


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6441 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11024 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
It worked for AC.

Yes, but only because of the subsidized Canadian government financing.

The only reason that AC got the CRJ705 was because the Canadian government was able to engineer the sale as an "export" so that AC (a Canadian airline) could access the Canadian Goverment's Export Financing (through the government's Export Development Corporation). If this financing "sleight of hand" had not taken place, AC would not have bought the CRJ705.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
I'm guessing they got a decent deal on the CRJ900's in exchange for taking the 15 CRJ200's that they had rejected leases on.

In NW's case it is a bit different. The CRJ200's were not returned to Bombardier but the Canadian Government (the Export Development Corporation) that financed the jets.

Many people mistakenly think that RJs are purchased on the basis of price/performance but, in reality, vendor arranged financing (typically government funds) is the critical factor.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11001 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 8):
I like this comment:

"The 12 first class seats, arranged in a one seat-aisle-two seats configuration, will have 36 inches of pitch, or space between rows. Coach class, arranged in a two seats-aisle-two seats configuration, will have pitch comparable to other aircraft in the airline's current mainline fleet."

I love how they are too afraid (embarrassed) to actually state the coach pitch. Smile

On the bright side, I think it's going to be great for their customers to have the first class option on more of the network.


Howdy -

I've flown AC's CRJ705s (CRJ900s configured for 9+64 pax) and the pitch in
the back is 32". It's not a bad ride actually. Looks like NW will squeeze in one more row of J/F, so I'm gonna guess in the back it will be 31".



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 15):
Air Canada also split between Bombardier and Embraer, so there is precedent.

As did American with the CRJ200 and EMB145.

Tells me the aircraft are probably very close in operation costs, but to gain the amount of aircraft they need, when they need them, the order had to be split between two manufacturers, i.e. one could not produce the 70+ aircraft on a schedule suitable to NW.

I wonder if there wasn't the nasty business of the rejected leases, and needing an 'out', if NW would have taken any CRJ900s at all?
From a consumer standpoint, I find the E-Jets to be a more appealing aircraft.



Delete this User
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8976 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 13):

I still fail to grasp the reason for a CRJ-900 / EMB175 split.

Any chance they could have encountered scope clause difficulties? Also, I heard that they have some cash strapped with BBD, so that may also have influenced to some degree.

This deal may get NW better proposals for their DC9 replacement in the future.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10800 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
Tells me the aircraft are probably very close in operation costs, but to gain the amount of aircraft they need, when they need them, the order had to be split between two manufacturers, i.e. one could not produce the 70+ aircraft on a schedule suitable to NW.

I have the same opinion. Don't know Bombardier, but Embraer seems to be full of work on E-Jets line during the next 18 months.

Very good news for Embraer as they get another major customer in the US!

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10753 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 13):
I still fail to grasp the reason for a CRJ-900 / EMB175 split.

One reason (as it has been explained before) is that by spliting the order NW can get the aircraft sooner. It would take forever for NW to get 72 E175s delivered. By spliting, NW can get a few early delivery slots from both manufacturers.



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10717 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 9):
Good for NW!! Maybe they'll put a second MSP-TUS flight for the winter/spring months, as I remember it, the daily A319(sometimes swapped for the A320) goes out at around a 90% load factor, even in the summer.

You beat me too it! I was hoping for the same thing. This year from 12/20/06 to 1/2/07, NW adds an extra flight to MSP arriving in TUS at 11:15PM and departing for MSP at 8 AM. What NW should do, IMO, is give us two daily flights on the new RJ's (I don't care which one). They would leave at 8AM and Noon, and the returns would arrive in TUS at 10:30AM and 7PM. Those are times that most people would be willing to travel at, and the 8AM flight would allow for more connections in MSP. The flight they have currently arrives after a lot of the flights to the Southeast have departed. Some later flights do operate, but who wants to get somewhere between 11PM-Midnight while on vacation? And the return departs for TUS before many flights from that region can arrive.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
As did American with the CRJ200 and EMB145.

AA Eagle actually operates the CR7 and, IMO, the colors look great! Big grin


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Photo © Matt Cawley



User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10702 times:

I too believe the E-190/195 will be the follow on order to replace the remaining DC-9's; does anyone have any pics of a NW CRJ-900?

25 Nwafflyer : What about flight crew training? Will the DC-9 flight crews be trained on either the ERJ, or the CRJ? What about Mesaba/Pinnacle/Compass - what type o
26 Azjubilee : This is the carrot in the whipsaw game. My guess is that XJ will be the undetermined Airlink partner. Why else have they been maintaining the CRJ cert
27 United_fan : Hope they bring them to ROC,I need to see something other than DC-9's and XJ Avro's.
28 NorthwestEWR : Dang ! I wanted to see all EMBs but oh well..... I'm keeping my fingers crossed that NW will order EMB-190/195s ! Congrats to NWA and Embraer and I su
29 Post contains images Nitrohelper : Who is going to build the new 100 seat DC-9 upgrade? Will it be a stretch of something out there now , or a new tube&wings? (Russian maybe) Will it be
30 COERJ145 : Perhaps NW will upgrade the BOS-MEM flights to a CR9 or a E75. 3hrs 15 minutes in a CRJ-200 would be uncomfortable for me. I remember back in 2002 NW
31 Post contains images UAL757 : I'm thinkin the new colors will look splendid on the new planes!
32 UAL757 : I'm thinking the NWA colors will look great on the E175!
33 Thegooddoctor : Yeah, at least when they used DC-9s on the route, MEM was a stopover option. But if I have my choice now, MSP or DTW just to avoid the RJ.
34 Flyf15 : So, there are 53 CRJs here that need homes. 36 CRJ-900s (new) 15 CRJ-200s (storage) 1 CRJ-200 (currently Mesaba) 1 CRJ-200 (currently Compass) Does ev
35 WorldTraveler : NW also rejected some CRJs as part of its bankruptcy proceedings. While the press release says that NW will take back 15 CRJs that were previously rej
36 Web : Most likely the 100-seat DC-9 replacement will be the EMB-190/195, since the CRJ-900 is the largetst BBD aircraft. Perhaps that is one reason why the
37 KaiGywer : While I know it hurts what XJ and NW mgmt are doing, I would be glad to see XJ survive however. If this is what it takes to survive, shouldn't we loo
38 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : That adds a wrinkle to any procurement process I guess. I'd definitely go where the money is if I was ordering some RJ's. I'd hope that Brazil had th
39 Dornier328JET : Good to hear! Always nice to see RJ's in new colors. Granted the CRJ may not be the most ideal aircraft to fly on, but it is a good looking plane.
40 Skywatcher : I believe that a split order makes alot of sense. If one or the other of these manufacturers goes tits up the airlines are the ones that will suffer f
41 Tangowhisky : Unless Bombardier can pull off the C Series with NW as launch. But this is unlikely as I am sure NW can not wait 4-5 years for the C Series, and will
42 Planemaker : Yes, aside from a 5 year wait for a C110, with E175s on the "property" there really is no compelling reason for NW to add yet another type to the fle
43 IdaBoy : Finally, a chance to get somthing other than a Bombardier into IDA...
44 HPAEAA : yep.. AA never flew the CRJ200.... the colors may look good but it's awfully uncomfortable on long hauls and well... they cxl a lot!
45 Post contains links KingAir200 : Bombardier image of a CRJ900 in Airlink colors http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?...age%3Den%26action%3Dview%26cid%3D1 Embraer press release with pi
46 SkyexRamper : Why is fleet commonality such a hard thing for airlines to understand. Why order 2 airplanes that seat the same, have the same engines but yet are tot
47 Ejmmsu : The CR9's have commonality with the existing CRJ-100/200's, and the E175's have commonality with the soon to be ordered E195's.
48 Centrair : It certainly will separate who is who. EMB...Oh its Compass. CRJ...Oh its someone else. I wonder if NW will actually make these a little bit more "com
49 FlyDreamliner : Sure it does. The CRJ9's have commonality with the rest of the NW Airlink CRJ fleet, the ERJ 175's will have commonality with the ERJ 190/195's that
50 Post contains images Warszawa : Will Northwest offer IFE for once on these aircraft?
51 Af773atmsp : NW also wants to order an ERJ aircraft (most likely the 190 or 195) to replace the DC-9s. I can't wait to ride one of those big regional jets.
52 Post contains images Mrocktor : The C-series was axed because NW is ordering something else mrocktor
53 Post contains images John : I guess NW is pretty confident they'll be coming out of bankruptcy with alot of cash on hand....
54 TOLtommy : Hopefully. But the XJ SLT has to actually agree to negotiate with the unions, or risk running out of time and money before NWA makes a decision. Unle
55 Nitrohelper : How would the 190/195 be configured by NWA ,and would they want more than 100 seats? Anybody know the average pax load now for the DC-9s?
56 PSU.DTW.SCE : Commonality doesn't matter in this case, since they will be operated by different companies in the first place. Compass gets the E-Jets, and likely XJ
57 Tangowhisky : It also seems clear that there is no indication from NW that they are interested in the CRJ-900X. If NW ends up replacing their DC-9s with E-195s, th
58 DAYflyer : I had the same question when I read this. Why two different planes of the same size?
59 Saab2000 : In the case of the CRJ there is very little parts commonality between the CR2 and the CR9. There is training commonality, but not really maintainance
60 CRJ 900 : CONNIES4EVER you are wrong about AC's CRJ705 config, they are 10J 65Y (i fly the darn thing)...9J 64Y is the EMB175
61 Derik737 : Not so fast. Did you know that Boeing is currently working on a DC-9 Extended Life Study for NW? Also, keep in mind that the Embraer's are going to C
62 Tangowhisky : Yes but isn't it possible (just a hunch) that as the Compass fleet grows, the DC-9 routes eventually get transferred over to Compass (with 195s), and
63 787KQ : A study has to be done to complete the business case. Study or not they will be replaced shortly. That they will not be replaced is definitely a nons
64 AirTranTUS : What about the 717? I know it weighs more then the E-Jet, but it is more of a direct DC-9 replacement. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I
65 787KQ : The 717 is out of production.
66 Tangowhisky : One possibility is that NW was in no position in buying 717s when the type was in production. Another is that after the AA F100s, I don't think airli
67 Skyexramper : Oh trust me, passengers do care and do notice the differences in airplanes and do make comments. You need to work around passengers to understand how
68 Falstaff : How many routes does this happen on. I regularly fly NWA DTW-STL on a variety of DC-9s and they are always full. If there is an empty seat it is just
69 TOLtommy : LOL.... thanks for the scolding SkyEx... I was working around passengers when you were still in grade school. I've thrown bags, slung cokes, checked
70 JSquared : This is great news for Northwest! " target=_blank>http://www.embraer.com/english/conte...=1386 Did anybody else notice that Embraer's press release st
71 EmSeeEye : Why dont you people understand the CRJ 900 is a completely different aircraft than the 100, 200 or 400? Also, the carrier is the one who determines h
72 FoxBravo : Can anyone explain the exact difference between the CRJ705 and the CRJ900? As far as I know they have the same exterior dimensions and the same engine
73 CRJ900 : I think you answered your own question. The CRJ705 is marketed as a "max 75 seats" airplane with longer range due to reduced weight. I think the CRJ7
74 Mrocktor : Basically, because its not. And the carrier determines pitch. There is absolutely nothing they can do about cabin widh, aisle height, window size, bi
75 FoxBravo : Thanks--that's what I suspected. It just seemed odd that they would go for the higher sticker price just to be able to put in 1 more seat than the li
76 M404 : One of the stories on this had a question posed by an industry watcher that was "Why did NW allocate the ERJs to Compass when the Certificate is speci
77 Columba : More to Airbus since NW would not order the 736 anyway because of their huge A319 and A320 fleet. But maybe Boeing sees it as sign to go on with thei
78 BA787 : Why have NW bought two different aircrfat typ[es. For an airline that is supposed to be cost-cutting, would it not have been cheaper to order 72 E or
79 Columba : Maybe it has to do with the mission profile of the selected aircraft.
80 Jano : ...and the speed of delivery of the aircraft
81 CRJ900 : The news article in the threadstarter post mentions that the CRJ900 will have nearly 1,400 miles range while the E175 will eventually have 1,700 mile
82 Connies4ever : Apologies. You're right, I'm wrong. Have to stay on the meds ! :^)
83 Gregarious119 : And it may've also been the best way to get the aircraft they wanted (possibly the EMB170), while still not losing their deposit they had with BBD. R
84 NASCARAirforce : Doubt it. I am willing to bet the CRJ -9s go to Pinnacle and the EMBs go to Compass You are right about that. You would think that an airline would t
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