Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Porter Airlines Preps For Departure In Toronto:)  
User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

www.flyporter.com

Just received the "begin purchasing fares today" email. Just want to give a pat on the back to Robert J. Deluce, for creating this new key into the Downtown Toronto Core {CYTZ}. Some statements and promises I find interesting :

---Because of our central location and small airport feel, we can dramatically cut your total travel time. Easy access to the airport, quick check-in and security, short taxi to the runway and a fast, modern aircraft can potentially save you hours on a round-trip flight between Toronto and Ottawa.

--- It's just a short cab ride away, but if you want to save the fare you can take the TTC or GO Transit to Union Station where we run a free shuttle service. To make things easier, you can check-in right at the shuttle departure kiosk.

---We've also built convenience into our new passenger lounge. It's just steps from the departure gates and features free wireless internet access, complimentary coffee/tea/soft drinks, and a business centre with workstations. Best of all, it's open to all Porter passengers free of charge.

now... for the part we have all been waiting for....

---At Porter, we believe that even short-haul passengers deserve a refined in-flight experience. Our attentive crew is pleased to offer snack and beverage service on all flights, including complimentary soft drinks, wine and beer.

AND BEER, AND BEER... yes i had to read that all again myself, was hard to believe indeed. Hopefully these wonderful generous acts will last, especially when Porter begins flying State Side.

Congrats Porter

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

BEER! BEER! Molson and Labatt! YES! I had to read it twice too! Very nice. Congradulations Porter! I'll have to fly it just to bring back my memories of a 10 Year old on City Express, my first domestic flight! Nice!

User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

Yes can hardly wait Smile

User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

Today I spoke with a Jazz captain. He told me that the Q400 can't takeoff from YTZ with a full load of passenger, luggage and the required fuel to go to YOW because its to heavy, even for the longest runway. That explains why the fares are so high : Porter can't sell all the seats otherwise the plane won't be able to takeoff!

Expect even worse this winter because the average passenger weight used to calculate the load is higher.



Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4857 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
Today I spoke with a Jazz captain. He told me that the Q400 can't takeoff from YTZ with a full load of passenger, luggage and the required fuel to go to YOW because its to heavy, even for the longest runway

Not true. The Q400 needs 3,720 feet to take off at Max weight for a 500nm stage length flight. The main runway - 08/26, is 4,000 feet long. These figures come from Bombardier's Web site and are for the HGW version. I don't know which version Porter has. However, knowing the limitations, I would assume the airline would be smart enough to buy the version most suitable for their operations.


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3021 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4808 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
Today I spoke with a Jazz captain. He told me that the Q400 can't takeoff from YTZ with a full load of passenger, luggage and the required fuel to go to YOW because its to heavy, even for the longest runway. That explains why the fares are so high : Porter can't sell all the seats otherwise the plane won't be able to takeoff!

Expect even worse this winter because the average passenger weight used to calculate the load is higher.

And it was taking off just fine during all the fully loaded demonstration flights because??? Anything a Jazz pilot tells you is subject to large amounts of questionable motives anyways. The Q400 is capable out of YTZ with 70 pax with 500nm range, which covers YOW, YUL, NYC, Washington, Boston, Chicago... Further or bad weather yes will limit takeoff weight, but ANY Dash 8 will have that problem, including Jazz -100s!

And fares, well, Nov 13th same day RT (one month from now just for example):
Porter = 321.99 cheapest inc all taxes and fees ($120 each way+t/f/etc)
Air Canada= 298.22 inc all taxes and fees with alot more restrictions (tango) and worse times
Tango plus= 431.78 for closer to reasonable terms, still not as flexible as Porter's least flexible fare.

Westjet= 298.22 inc all taxes and fees on a SALE fare.

I dont see Porter being much off honestly, especially considering not having to pay Pearson's parking/travel costs.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineRDPS From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):



Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
Today I spoke with a Jazz captain. He told me that the Q400 can't takeoff from YTZ with a full load of passenger, luggage and the required fuel to go to YOW because its to heavy, even for the longest runway. That explains why the fares are so high : Porter can't sell all the seats otherwise the plane won't be able to takeoff!

Sounds more like something Mayor Miller and that band of lunatics Community Air would come up with.


User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

 Confused Well I don't know what to say. He is captain on dash 8, he must have good reasons.


Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineLokey123 From Barbados, joined May 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4703 times:

I've been watching the Q400 do proving runs from through my office window for the past few weeks now, the aircraft seems to climb out quite flawlessly...not sure if it has ever been at MTOW though.

My boss was supposed to be on their inaugural pax flight, I think it was on thursday not quite sure. I have to get a debrief from him on Monday.

Does anyone know how their ferry service is working out? It was pretty windy today and I think that the new ferry had a couple of issues docking.

What do you guys & gals think about their advertising? IMHO this will be a key issue in their initial success. So far I have only seen one billboard around the city, and it was in a bad location at that, if I wasn't walking by and looking for it I would have missed it.


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting Lokey123 (Reply 8):
What do you guys & gals think about their advertising? IMHO this will be a key issue in their initial success. So far I have only seen one billboard around the city, and it was in a bad location at that, if I wasn't walking by and looking for it I would have missed it.

They have several on the Gardiner Expressway and I think one over on the DVP. Additionally there have been print ads. They better not suck, they are using my name damn it!

[Edited 2006-10-14 07:39:06]


I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

The ferry slip and ferry were both made almost completely rectangular which makes no sense for a ferry which will spend so little time travelling and so much time docking aas a percentage of total trip time. Unlike all the other Toronto island ferries which have round ends and angled slips to guide the boat in, the new airport ferry will be a pain to dock with any crosswind or waves in the channel.

The terminal is nice. They are using the same fonts and colouring that they are using on T1-New airport signage. There are three check-in kiosks landside on the second floor. No paving of the parking lot has taken place yet.

As for the Q400 at the airport, it is true that the airport does not have enough runway for a Q400 to take-off at MTOW... but as mentioned they are only looking to fly 500nm or less which means the aircraft will never be fully fueled. If for a particular flight the weight, runway, weather calculations show that there is a need to pull some passengers off they can do that but that should be rare, especially considering the target market isn't likely to be loaded down with heavy baggage. It is a situation not isolated to commuter aircraft at minor airports. I have been on a weight restricted A320 leaving San Diego which needed to take some people off but it doesn't have a major impact to operations.

I'm curious as to what other airlines will do. Jazz has indicated it has an agreement with a building owner for use in the future of this old brick building at the airport which seems ill suited to handling passenger operations at the current time. Currently they are in court to regain full access to the airport but regardless of the outcome from that it seems likely that at some point they will get at the very least some form of restricted access to provide services there. In addition I wouldn't doubt that airlines in the US might have a response to Porter launching transborder service. In addition it will be interesting to see if Porter partners up with a US carrier once it launches transborder operations. I notice that the loyalty program isn't being announced right away so perhaps they are still figuring that part out. In any case it should be interesting to watch how things pan out.


User currently offlineBravogolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Will YTZ have US Customs preclearence on site when Porter starts flying to the States?

User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
Today I spoke with a Jazz captain. He told me that the Q400 can't takeoff from YTZ with a full load of passenger, luggage and the required fuel to go to YOW because its to heavy, even for the longest runway. That explains why the fares are so high : Porter can't sell all the seats otherwise the plane won't be able to takeoff!

Expect even worse this winter because the average passenger weight used to calculate the load is higher.

Yes, the ego of young air canada jazz pilots is unfortunate nowadays. My good pals dad is a captain on the 340 series for AC, and its quite interesting to hear the different types of people that exist within the airline. It would strike me that Porter is offering a great service, which perhaps Air Canada Jazz will not be able to compete with in the coming months. This could perhaps pose problems for Dash 8 Jazz pilots who fly the route? Or maybe even hes jealous lol... maybe he cant stand it that someone is flying the larger dash 8  Smile... in the airline business the smaller guys always think they are better than the rest. SO what can ya do  Smile For the record, before investing hundreds ... millions of dollars into this project, im confident the CEO would have brought into consideration whether the Q400 will be able to depart with desired capacities.

Quoting Salomon (Reply 7):
Well I don't know what to say. He is captain on dash 8, he must have good reasons.

I am sure he thinks EMB-170 guys are there because their dads got them there. He probably thinks the 767 guys are just prone to bad landings. He might even think that the CRJ guys are at war with the Dash 8 guys... like i mean he has no proof to back up what he is saying. He is a TINY bird in a very large, large LARGE sky.


User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Quoting CF188A (Reply 12):
Yes, the ego of young air canada jazz pilots is unfortunate nowadays. My good pals dad is a captain on the 340 series for AC, and its quite interesting to hear the different types of people that exist within the airline.

No. He has been flying dash 8s for Air Alliance then Air nova and finally Jazz. I respect him very much and he is a very humble person. He never wanted to join Air Canada or fly the new jets.

However, he sometimes refer to young Jazz pilots who arrive at the airport in sports car, proud to fly on the ''jets'' (CRJ-200/705).

Quoting CF188A (Reply 12):
in the airline business the smaller guys always think they are better than the rest.



Quoting CF188A (Reply 12):
I am sure he thinks EMB-170 guys are there because their dads got them there. He probably thinks the 767 guys are just prone to bad landings. He might even think that the CRJ guys are at war with the Dash 8 guys... like i mean he has no proof to back up what he is saying. He is a TINY bird in a very large, large LARGE sky.

Its funny how stories change from a group to another. I actually asked him if there was an issue between Air Canada pilots and Jazz pilots. He said the some AC pilots reject the Jazz pilots. They are considered like bunch of proud, ex-military pilots who want nothing to do with the idiots flying the props. Everytime a AC pilots asks to fly in the jumpseat (to get to his base or whatever), he never refuses. Sadly, the same cannot be said for some AC pilots.

Quoting CF188A (Reply 12):
This could perhaps pose problems for Dash 8 Jazz pilots who fly the route? Or maybe even hes jealous lol... maybe he cant stand it that someone is flying the larger dash 8

He told me Jazz badly need new pilots. Usually, the simulator hours he has to do monthly counted as flying hours. Now, they don't count to enable him to fly more hours on the Dash 8 and help Jazz cope with missing pilots. So no, he isn't jealous, he has plenty of job, even too much.

He couldn't care less that the Q400 is bigger, grow up. Does that fact someone is flying a A340 make him a better pilot than Dash 8 pilot? No.

EDIT:my english

[Edited 2006-10-14 18:03:22]


Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 13):
He couldn't care less that the Q400 is bigger, grow up. Does that fact someone is flying a A340 make him a better pilot than Dash 8 pilot? No.

(in regards to the bigger comment) i was being very rhetorical and sarcastic. Thanks though

Actually, i think it is fair to say a man flying a 340 is much better than a new guy flying a Dash 8.... people dont just GET INTO the cockpit of a 340 and fly around. Do you know how many jobs out west, in Hawaii, etc etc, some of these captains have had (pals dad for example). When he listed the aircraft piloted to me my jaw dropped. They are far more experienced then you will ever imagine. It is obvious the a guy flying the 340 has been with Air Canada for a long long time. Therefore he is experienced. How can you even imagine a young dash 8 pilot is even close to the "better" one when he has been flying 1/20th the amount of the other guy?

In response to the Jazz VS AC statement. It is quite accurate  Wink


User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting CF188A (Reply 14):
Actually, i think it is fair to say a man flying a 340 is much better than a new guy flying a Dash 8....



Quoting CF188A (Reply 14):
They are far more experienced then you will ever imagine. It is obvious the a guy flying the 340 has been with Air Canada for a long long time. Therefore he is experienced. How can you even imagine a young dash 8 pilot is even close to the "better" one when he has been flying 1/20th the amount of the other guy?

I strongly disagree. A pilot is experienced depending on how many hours he has flown, where he has flown and what he has flown.

That Jazz Dash 8 captain has been flying that machine for more than 20 years. He has flown the CL-215/415, DHC-6, Dash 7, C185... A A340 captain has a different experience Its not better or worst, its different!

Let me tell you that landing on a curved runway with a 15 kts crosswind using a C185 with floats can be very challenging.

Quoting CF188A (Reply 14):
In response to the Jazz VS AC statement. It is quite accurate

Sadly...

We have different opinions. By your name, I guess that you are training, or would like to, as a military pilot. Like most of the military pilots, you might want to finish your career as an Air Canada pilot... and then bitch at those Jazz pilots...

I have a different mentality, no better, no worst, different. I want to become an airline pilot but using a different path, bush flying.



Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineLokey123 From Barbados, joined May 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 4418 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 9):
They better not suck, they are using my name damn it

If they do, I'll be sure to blame you  Big grin. Nice flag by the way  bigthumbsup .


User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

I dont disagree with you at all. I meant a pilot who just got into the airline world with not many hours compaired to a very experienced heavy captain. There is a slight difference. Yes indeed I am aiming towards the military route lol and for the record, AC seniors/ pilots dislike the military guys even more than the jazz juys. They apperantly believe the 320 is their personal F18/C130 ... many commercial pilots say. You do not want to know what I have to say back to those who state that Wink ...

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Quoting Lokey123 (Reply 16):
If they do, I'll be sure to blame you . Nice flag by the way .

LOL. And thanks re the flag. Was born Barbados but living just outside CYHM now, so it was a toss up which flag to put up there LOL.. I figured since there was a place for location, I would swap it up and use the birth flag.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineLokey123 From Barbados, joined May 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 18):
LOL. And thanks re the flag. Was born Barbados but living just outside CYHM now, so it was a toss up which flag to put up there LOL..

Cool, same deal here...was born in Barbados and lived there for half my life...live in the states now and working in toronto just outside YTZ for the past two months...decided to go with the flag of where i am now.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

I think this is a cool venture. Up to 500 miles from YTZ does cover a vast amount of area.. going as far south as NC, as far Southwest as IL, and as far Midwest as WI. That's cool and covers a lot of potential.


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4154 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 15):
I strongly disagree. A pilot is experienced depending on how many hours he has flown, where he has flown and what he has flown.

I agree. Amount of time that passes while staying at the same airline is not a measure of experience or ability. When a pilot switches airlines or joins from the military or some other place that the pilot can gain experience from that doesn't translate to seniority to put them into the A340.

Quoting CF188A (Reply 12):
Or maybe even hes jealous lol... maybe he cant stand it that someone is flying the larger dash 8

Personally I would be more jealous that that one is flying a brand new aircraft versus an old one. It would be nice if Jazz would more to the Q series.


User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 20):
I think this is a cool venture. Up to 500 miles from YTZ does cover a vast amount of area.. going as far south as NC, as far Southwest as IL, and as far Midwest as WI. That's cool and covers a lot of potential.

dont forget about the free beer now  Wink


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3021 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3938 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

ok well call me crazy... but im going to be trying out the free beer in November  Smile


Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineRjnut From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Here we go again,,,This upstart had better get loaded into CRS or they will NEVER !!!..be found by travel professionals much outside of Toronto!...Please tell me the management of this upstart understands the business travel distribution avenues,, otherwise they"re doomed!!!

Just because you think you have hired some cutsie little marketing whores to spread THE WORD does not guarantees bookings!

Get visible the sensible way...!!!


User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 25, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

Quoting CF188A (Reply 14):
Actually, i think it is fair to say a man flying a 340 is much better than a new guy flying a Dash 8....

Absolute BS statement... pilots come in all shapes, sizes and skill levels... just because you can push the buttons on an A340 and program it to fly to Tokyo for you, doesn't make you any more skilled than a guy who hand-flies his turboprop without such luxuries as an FMC or turbofan engines... At the same time, it doesn't mean a turboprop pilot is any more skilled than a 340 pilot.... equipment doesn't determine how "good" you are, your skills and attitude do  Wink

Quoting CF188A (Reply 14):
It is obvious the a guy flying the 340 has been with Air Canada for a long long time.

Another absolute BS statement! Some of the most senior captains at AC fly smaller types (they can sleep in their own bed every night!). At the same time I'm pretty sure new hires can step into a widebody right away, I know of one AC pilot who went right onto the 767.

Quoting CF188A (Reply 17):
and for the record, AC seniors/ pilots dislike the military guys even more than the jazz juys.

So I'm guessing that since your pal's daddy says something, it's reflective of all of his colleagues/coworkers at AC?? One guys opinion should not be interpreted as how a group of people percieve another group of people...

You've got a lot to learn bud! Try keeping an open mind and not taking what buddy's pops says as gospel, I'm sure there are opinions of all kinds in the AC pilot camp, just remember, opinions are like a$$holes...

Oh, and for the record, Jazz's minimums for new hires are higher than AC mainline's minimums... Perhaps those "young dash-8 pilots" are actually more experienced than your Airbus pilots!

Jeremy



Think before you type!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Do Airlines Look For In New Pilots? posted Fri Aug 4 2006 16:18:13 by BowflexBrennan
NYT: United Airlines Approved For In-Flight WiFi posted Mon Jun 6 2005 16:58:01 by UA744Flagship
Do Airlines Ask For Birthdate At Check In? posted Tue Feb 3 2004 05:13:23 by Flyboy80
New Gates For Airtran In ATL posted Wed Nov 1 2006 17:56:57 by Quickmover
First Week Report On Porter Airlines? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 01:09:02 by Bravogolf
Jazz And Dash-8s Vs Q400s (was Porter Airlines...) posted Mon Oct 23 2006 23:11:17 by Drgmobile
Porter Airlines Launches Service posted Mon Oct 23 2006 17:39:04 by C-GRYK
New Routes For Airtran In '07? posted Mon Oct 23 2006 07:18:03 by Vulindlela744
Union Has Called For Strike In Ryanair posted Wed Oct 11 2006 19:33:18 by Bullpitt
Flybe To Charge For Check In And Using The Toilet? posted Tue Oct 10 2006 13:02:58 by Trb10