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Which Will NW Order The 190, 195, Or Both?  
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5656 times:

NW has said that they will probably replace their DC-9s with 100 seat ERJ jets. The two jets are the 190 and 195. Which will NW order the 190, 195, or both?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

For Minnesota Twins fans out there here is a message.
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know that wasn't an aviation thing but I just wanted to type it. Big grin



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

More or less likely both, but if its one or the other it would more likely be the 195's


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5607 times:
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How many seats does the DC9's have on average and what sectors do they fly? Short hops or medium hauls or both?

What will suit them best? A two-class 100-seat E190 for longer sectors or two-class 110-115-seat E195 for short hops?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

I would think the E195 would be the jet to replace the DC-9s. The only other jet I can think of is the A318. I want NW to order the 195. I think they have enough baby buses.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 4):
I would think the E195 would be the jet to replace the DC-9s. The only other jet I can think of is the A318. I want NW to order the 195. I think they have enough baby buses.

Second that...it would make a great replacement.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5536 times:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2750766

They've been eyeing the E190 for over a year. The industry analysts say it's going to be the E190. I'm willing to bet it's all E190's.

It's a good match for the 36 E175's they ordered for Compass.



Mark


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

I'm fine if its the 190 or 195. Both look like very good regional jets. Is there a date when the E190s will start service?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineYVRlonghauler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

So much for guessing...

Bombardier lands $1.35B order for regional jets

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/st...06/10/06/qc-bombardiernewdeal.html


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 7):
Is there a date when the E190s will start service?

They haven't been ordered yet. That should happen any day now.


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Mark


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5324 times:

Aren't the 190 and 195 aircrafts mainline. AC has there E190's and E195's in mainline not Jazz. So if NW did order one of these aircrafts wouldn't they be in mainline not with XJ or Pinnacle?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting YVRlonghauler (Reply 8):
So much for guessing...

Bombardier lands $1.35B order for regional jets

This is a different order. These are 76-seat jets, an order which was shared with EMB.

As for whether the 100-seat order will be filled by the EMB 190/195, i'm not sure which type fits best for a DC9 replacement.


User currently offlineSquid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

NWA mainline will fly the 190's but the employee's will only be paid regional wages, the FA's still to negotiate the payscale. But it should be in line with MESA, which in turn will keep NWA's operating costs way down. NWA's employee's flatly refused to allow Compass to fly up to 110 seat AC, and unfortunately NWA management caved in on this. However, NWA management did let the mainline employee's operate this AC, but only if they agreed to regional wages. I really wish NWA management could have won that 110 seat regional battle, it really would have brought their seat cost's down. With most of the employee's being on the one year pay scale at Compass, NWA could have basically paid for the AC with their redused wages alone. But it is good to see that NWA stood firm with their mainline employee's about the regional pay scale for the 190.

User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Should be interesting to see how the 190 works for them. How does B9 handle the 190 payscale? Is a 190 exployee on the same scale as a 320 employee?

User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2230 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5063 times:
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Squid

When you say NW employees are you only thinking about the flight crew and FAs? These will be ground operated by NW mainline personnel at stations where available (not outsourced). Those contract employees will be at your regional scales (or less) and the mainline have taken considerable concessions and OKd the substantial increase in Part-Time employees, many of which were the formal full time agents. That dilution will help subsidize the operation you want.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting Squid (Reply 12):
NWA's employee's flatly refused to allow Compass to fly up to 110 seat AC, and unfortunately NWA management

if NW employees will be flying a 190 for regional wages, why do you care if Compass or NW flies it?


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6533 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 4):
I think they have enough baby buses.

What baby buses are you talking about?


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

The A319s and A320s. I thought a lot of people nicknamed them baby buses. And the A318 is just a little bit shorter than the 319. The ERJ 190 and 195 will probably take over the DC-9 routes.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6533 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 17):
I thought a lot of people nicknamed them baby buses

Have never heard the 320 and 319 referred to as baby buses. I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd!!


User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1630 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

Quoting Squid (Reply 12):
NWA's employee's flatly refused to allow Compass to fly up to 110 seat AC, and unfortunately NWA management caved in on this.

Don't you just hate that when NW employees stand up for their jobs?  Silly

[Edited 2006-10-08 18:36:54]


Hey Swifty
User currently offlineSquid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 15):
if SA)">NW employees will be flying a 190 for regional wages, why do you care if Compass or SA)">NW flies it?

Well if the 190 could have been flown by Compass, an entirely new regional airline, the Compass employee's will all be starting at first year pay on a payscale set by Compass. Compass will not have the union's to contend with which will allow Compass to set pay-scales at market-rate, not the bloated pay-rates at the major airlines which only in turn drives the overall CASM up. NWA was unable to win the 190 regional battle completely, instead allowing NWA mainline to fly it on negotiated regional-like wages. However, the regional-like wages for the pilots is higher at NWA mainline than they are at Compass, and the NWA flight attendants have yet to negotiate a payscale. The only thing that NWA management has is a side letter of agreement in the back of the flight attendant contract stating the company and the union will meet to negotiate a 77-110 seat payscale similar to a large regional airline i.e. MESA, Trans States, Air Wisconson, etc. However as long as NWA management must deal with the union, the wages will be unnecessarily higher than market-rate. Also, the employees at NWA mainline have many years of seniority, they will not be paid at year one wages when they do fly that AC. An NWA pilot with 9 years and a flight attendant with 12 years will be paid at the 9 year, and 12 year paysteps, instead of 1 year paysteps like they would at Compass thus in turn preventing NWA from capturing the absolute lowest CASM possible when operating the 190.

[Edited 2006-10-08 21:26:47]

User currently offlineSquid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4861 times:

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 19):
Don't you just hate that when NW employees stand up for their jobs?

I believe in a completely free market, I think unions should be illegal. They do nothing but keep prices higher than they need to be. If a company is satisfied with the caliber of employee they are attracting and retaining with the pay and benifits they are providing, then why should the company be forced to pay highter wages than is required? Unions do nothing but drive up the cost of doing business thus keeping the price of goods and services higher than they need to be.

[Edited 2006-10-08 21:28:14]

User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

NW will definitely order both the E-190 and the E-195, as they have different capacities, which would fit for the 3 DC-9 variants NW still operates. Would have been nicer if NW had ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9 though. One can dream...

Jeremy


User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1630 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Quoting Squid (Reply 21):
I think unions should be illegal

Well, aside from protecting some current DC-9 pilots' jobs down the road, ALPA didn't really help NW pilots with their last contract, so I guess you got part of your wish.

[Edited 2006-10-08 21:41:29]


Hey Swifty
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2745 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

Wouldn't the E190 make more sense for minimising labour costs? Fitted out for 99 pax, the E190 would only need 2 FAs, I believe, or are pax/crew ratios different in the US? If it's as I suspect (1 FA per 50 pax), then going for the E195 would only give you an extra 15 or so seats for the extra FA you'd have to hire. So costs per pax would increase.

A pretty crude calculation, but if I were NW, I'd go down the E190 route for that very reason.


25 Jano : Depends what they want to replace. DC9-30 is F16Y84 = 100 seats DC9-40 is F16Y94 = 110 seats DC9-50 is F16Y109 = 125 seats. So if NW intends to repla
26 Aerokiwi : I guess it all has to do with the loads on the sectors the DC9s fly, the likelihood of filling seats above 100 seats, the average fares for those seat
27 Burnsie28 : Not quite, the wages will not be a DC-9 payscale, but will be above those at regionals.
28 KSUpilot : I expect an E-190 order, as the gap isn't too big a deal. However, I am wishing for an E-195 order, so far my favorite of the E-Jets.
29 Bobnwa : Why do you prefer the E-195 over the E-190 with its much shorter range?
30 KSUpilot : It has nothing to do with technology or anything for me. I just like the looks of the E-195. I wants NW to pick whatever they feel is best for them.
31 Flyf15 : Wow, I'm impressed. You win the award for the most moronic poster ever to visit airliners.net. You might want to sit back and think about which is mo
32 Post contains images Checkraiser : First you said: Then you just had to beat it by saying this: If NW didn't change things they'd liquidate. How's that going to feed all those families?
33 Steeler83 : And US will have their E90/95s on mainline as well... And I believe someone already stated this for NWA as well...
34 Flyf15 : If you pay your employees too much, you're screwed. If you pay your employees too little, you're screwing them. There is a good middle ground. Squid
35 KSUpilot : When are these slated for delivery. They should look really nice in the new US colors.
36 Mrocktor : Well you get the award for most clueless in economics. If you pay your employees too little, they go somewhere else - and you are screwed. If they st
37 Okie73 : I would disagree. They have to stay and be productive. What good is it having a bunch of unmotivated employees who do the absolute bare minimum to av
38 Flyf15 : Not in the airline industry. Airline employees are not completely "at will"... it is not possible to leave one position at an airline and take anothe
39 Mrocktor : That is just the flip side of the coin. The business has to pay enough to attract and maintain a productive, engaged workforce. Bohoo, welcome to the
40 NASCARAirforce : Actually that goes for someone who starts a "What will Northwest replace their DC-9s with thread" but thats besides the point. Keep the CASM down and
41 LMP737 : In college I had a professor had an interesting take on this subject. Now before you go off and say "Professors, what do they know" he was a former a
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