PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6211 posts, RR: 79 Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10247 times:
Despite the new delays Etihad Airways remains optimistic about the A380. To adapt to the delay, the airline may firm up options on other 12 Airbus aircraft.
"We'd be able to cope with (the delay)," said Boven, who is still a backer of the project. "We're very much looking forward to incorporating the A380. It's a tremendous aircraft."
To adapt to the delay in the delivery of the double-decker planes, Etihad may firm up options it has on 12 other Airbus aircraft. The carrier will likely make a decision on this in the first half of 2007, Boven said.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69 Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10181 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter): Despite the new delays Etihad Airways remains optimistic about the A380. To adapt to the delay, the airline may firm up options on other 12 Airbus aircraft.
Don't you just love the word tremendous?
Looks like EK will have to keep a good eye out because Ethiad is hungry to capture market share.
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1): All the airlines have generally agreed on this point, which is why none of them have cancelled any orders.
It seems that all the A380 customers have realised the the A380 delays are mainly due to production issues, and not aircraft capabilities.
From what we have heard up until now the A380 has meet and even exceeded many of the expectations.
Slz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10181 times:
Good to see people with some more insight in the matter than the average A.netter keep on confirming the plane is indeed performing as promised (at least).
Anybody knows what EY has on option from Airbus?
An unexpected additional order for wide bodies could make the bitter pill taste somewhat sweeter for Airbus, a bit like the additional order for A330s from QF.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10572 posts, RR: 21 Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10090 times:
Boeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9963 times:
In this dismal time for Airbus there is a VERY fine line between the reality of the comments made by Ethiad and the timing and reasoning for making them.
Ethiad may be extracting a killer deal for more A380 and Airbus gets much needed good publicity.
The Airlines seem to be agreeing that the performance is not a problem but whilst I don't doubt A380 will perform well I have three serious reservations:
1. The operating empty weight of this Aircraft is huge (around 270 ton) The reality is that unless this baby is full up the CASM will be not good and Airlines run the risk of over capacity anf therefore turn A380 into yield killer and then intensify that problem.
2. Call it the "Zvezda" factor if you like but smaller 787/777/A350 have the range and CASM to compete with A380 whilst giving better frequency and destination options. We have seen the market fragment and go from 747 to 767 across the Atlantic andf further fragmentation is 747s to 777s across the pacific. There is a market for VLA between Hubs but I don't think its that huge.
3. Airbus's record in delivering on promises. We don't really know how far and how full A380 can fly but I guess Qantas (when they eventually get some aircraft) will find out when flying the MEL-LAX route. As far as my memory serves me the OEW kept increasing whilst the intended 3 class layouts for some airlines has continually been revised downwards from 555 to under 500 for SQ and QF. I seem to remember 77W was continually revised upwards and that wasn't from increasing MTOWs!!!!
Time will tell but I believe A380 was built by Airbus for all the wrong reasons and the Market is a lot smaller than anticipated.
The large twin is the way of the future make no mistake about that...
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3819 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9866 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter): "We'd be able to cope with (the delay)," said Boven, who is still a backer of the project. "We're very much looking forward to incorporating the A380. It's a tremendous aircraft."
The preceding political announcement was made thanks to a grant from Airbus...
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6211 posts, RR: 79 Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9865 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 6): What mother will say that she has an ugly baby?
There have also been numerous "mothers" in the aviation biz who said good bye to their "babies"...
Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 8): Call it the "Zvezda" factor if you like but smaller 787/777/A350 have the range and CASM to compete with A380 whilst giving better frequency and destination options.
This factor or that factor - there are certain important airports throughout the world where slots for a growth of frequencies are rare.
Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 8): s far as my memory serves me the OEW kept increasing whilst the intended 3 class layouts for some airlines has continually been revised downwards from 555 to under 500 for SQ and QF.
Can you provide a reliable source for the claim that QF and SQ had ever planned to install 555 seats? That's the standard layout suggested by Airbus - which premium carrier has ever adopted the manufacturer's standard?
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10572 posts, RR: 21 Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9857 times:
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 7): I think tremendous is in reference to the performance of the plane, not the looks...
Read it as you may. All I'm saying is Ethiad says good things about it because it's getting some of the earliest planes. Same for SQ. Those a bit later in the queue, like EK and QF are a lot more ambivalent, and presumably they get the same data from Airbus as the rest. Those later in the queue are almost all silent.
Quoting A3 (Reply 9): Some people like blonds , some brunets
Yes, but we are talking about the overweight red-haired stepchild of the aviation world!
SparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 668 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9673 times:
Reverse A vs. B.
I just love how the A380 gets delayed and delayed, and the airline customers just accept it. Yes, we KNOW it's a tremendous aircraft, but it's very, very late to the party.
If the Airbus A380 fiasco happened to Boeing in 2006, do you think airline customers would be patient? Hell no. They'd be chewing Boeing through the roof and there would be a million threads on a.net lamenting how Boeing is losing its former glory, how Airbus is the new king of the skies, blah blah blah.
But since Airbus is the underdog here, everyone is waxing sympathetic. IMHO, Airbus is lucky to be number 2 since it doesn't have as far to fall from grace as Boeing would in a situation like this.
Get those A380s up and running Airbus - the sooner the better.
SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
Myt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 74 Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9654 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 13): Yes, but we are talking about the overweight red-haired stepchild of the aviation world!
Have you even see the A380 in person yet? I hope you have because before I visited the USA I thought all Americans would be fat moronic idiots but after I visited I realised that whilst a lot of you are indeed fat and moronic, there is a certain something about them that keep people coming back.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10572 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9617 times:
I think people are over-reacting to the "ugly" word. I think the A380 isn't pretty sitting on the ground, but when she's in flight, she looks marvelous. And I have a lot of admiration for the many technological advances she brings. What's ugly about her is the circumstances of her birth, thus my reference to her being a stepchild.
Dallasnewark From Estonia, joined Nov 2005, 482 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9519 times:
Quoting WINGS (Reply 15): Last time I checked it was the B787 that was suffering form some extra Kilos. While the A380 has already been through a diet.
And the A380 may still be overweight, Airbus can be hiding that fact, they've created the smokescreen of sofware incompatability and are trying to hide everything behind it and they are doing a good job doing it, even convincing some A.netters such as our JP Morgan "engineer" who still believes sofwtare issues take that long
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6211 posts, RR: 79 Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9498 times:
Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 20): And the A380 may still be overweight, Airbus can be hiding that fact, they've created the smokescreen of sofware incompatability and are trying to hide everything behind it and they are doing a good job doing it, even convincing some A.netters such as our JP Morgan "engineer" who still believes sofwtare issues take that long
Though, you can't present the ultimate truth either. Speculations don't help.
Dallasnewark From Estonia, joined Nov 2005, 482 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9478 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21): Though, you can't present the ultimate truth either. Speculations don't help.
That would be logical since I don't work for Airbus, only they know something that they are hiding, but like I pointed out there are many issues behind the software smokescreen, and nobody on A.Net knows the truth, everyone is speculating
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 48 Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9396 times:
Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 8): Call it the "Zvezda" factor if you like but smaller 787/777/A350 have the range and CASM to compete with A380 whilst giving better frequency and destination options.
In the real world, most intercontinental routes are still protected by bilateral agreements, limiting the number of flights a certain flag carrier may undertake...
Simply adding MORE frequency with smaller planes may NOT be an option, even though their CASM might be (slightly) better than on the A388, so the only option to increase the market share on those flights is by using bigger planes.
One fine example of this is the Europe to Australia route: ever noticed how the A380 is popular with airlines flying on the kangaroo route? VS, EK, EY, SQ, MH, QF.... Those who'll not be ready, will simply be blown off the route completely: BA being the most obvious victim.
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7770 posts, RR: 73 Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9368 times:
Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 8): As far as my memory serves me the OEW kept increasing whilst the intended 3 class layouts for some airlines has continually been revised downwards from 555 to under 500 for SQ and QF.
555 is the standard 3 class number still quoted by Airbus, Boeing has similar numbers for they quote for the 744 ... 416 seats, no 5 star airline would be caught dead with that configuration, SQ have around 370-375 seats in their 744s. QFs newest 744ERs to do LAX-MEL only have 343 seats (14F/64J/265Y).
SQ have opted for more space again for passengers, now in their 773ERs they will have about the same number of passengers as their 772ERs.
My understanding is that the 748i has had an OEW increase of 21t and range reduction of between 500-1000 nm since launched (due to the fuselage stretch). SQ did look at this aircraft, they got no additional capacity in the 748i over the 744 with the new seating arrangements, i.e. the 748i is still about 100 seats behind the A380, with less range and payload.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
25 Norcal: Or if everyone is flying A380s then there will be overcapacity which will destroy yields. In that case BA will be ok because they won't have to compe
26 MotorHussy: Including your own. This guy's from an airline not Airbus. What a strange thing to say. MH
27 Gabo787: Well if we can't speculate here, then what is the purpose if this forum, I mean this an aviation forum, and we all here love aviation (planes, airlin
28 OldAeroGuy: But the key question is if other airlines will order and if the original airlines will re-order. As discussed in other threads, Airbus needs 40-50 or
29 PlaneHunter: Probably my point wasn't clear enough. It's important to distinguish between "there could be XXX" and "there is XXX" when offering a speculative thou
30 N31029: Hi Everyone. I believe the thread-starter, in my opinion, wished to give us an example and expound upon some of the already-known and well-documented
31 Joni: The 777 doesn't have lower CASM than the A380, and the B787 _may_ have slightly lower CASM at EIS due to newer engines, but if/when the A380 is offer
32 ER757: Ummm - have you been reading any threads on this forum in the past couple weeks? Nice post N31029 - well said
33 Zeke: Correct, and the 748i will have the lowest CASM of any aircraft Boeing has produced, including the 787. Quad does not mean expensive, nor does twin m
35 Boeing767-300: Point taken Zeke but is CASM not worked out on number of seats and therefore the chance of not filling an A380 could be very expensive and CASM goes
36 Cactus739: Well, there was the expectation it would be delivered somewhat close to its original delivery date.......
37 WingedMigrator: CASM is the same whether the seats are occupied or not. You must be talking about revenue, not cost. You shouldn't forget to mention that those other
38 AA777223: May I point out, it is really easy to say this on the heels of the news that EY will be receiving the A380 before EK? I think EY may be welcoming this
39 GFA330: Mr. Boven will move over in the coming days for James Hogan. Ex CEO GF will take over the reigns at EY. Trust me I know freom 1st hand experience that
40 Dynkrisolo: Smaller planes don't need to have lower CASM to have a place in the marketplace because of their overall lower risk. OTOH, larger planes will need to
41 Thebry: OK, I've had it. Why would you attack a "people" on this board? You blokes in the UK would be speaking German right now (that is if your grandparents
42 Myt332: Yes and you wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the Europeans in the first place, ironic eh or are you one of those who don't get irony? Also in 177
44 PlanesNTrains: I have to disagree. I think what was said here: is pretty accurate. There are a million threads (or at least a dozen or so) that go on and on about t
45 BY188B: LOL!! stop bitching everyone, play nice
46 Adria: There is also a "naive" factor which makes a.netters like you believe everything that's pro Boeing and even if it comes from a source that does not c
47 Elvis777: Hello everyone, A "tremendous aircraft'? Ok., I agree. I think that etihad should firm up their 12 and maybe even ask for 20 more. Yeah. I like that.
48 Stitch: The A380 appears to be meeting expectations, since the airlines keep saying it does, Airbus keeps saying it does, and nobody is leaking that it isn't,
49 EbbUK: You say that but BA have already been pruning on the kangaroo route, I believe they've stopped MEL and scaled down SYD to the tiny T7. BA are victims
50 Shenzhen: Has your Mommy drove you to see the airplane? How was the Choo Choo ride? Did you get to go in a really really big tunnel. Ok, off to bed now...... L
51 Myt332: You'll like this: I took the choo choo to see the aeroplane and I once drove through this really big tunnel, see my profile, and whilst it is past my
52 BoomBoom: The reason those were cancelled is because the airlines didn't want anymore.[Edited 2006-10-08 00:30:12]
53 2wingtips: Your understanding would appear to be totally incorrect, unless you can source otherwise(which you obviously can't). The 748I with the smaller stretc
55 Zeke: The 748i planning documents over time have shown various OEW and ranges. I have not collated them on a spreadsheet, however the numbers I stated are
56 Aeroplan73: At the end of the day, the A380 and Airbus will be just fine. A commercial aircraft that gives an airline so much revenue option flexibility, is what
58 Dougloid: And the outcome was that the basic operating weight by Airbus own figures went from 595,000 pounds in the Airport Facilities Planning guide that they
59 BillReid: Gee I am totally surprized that an Arab airline doesn't like a US product? tremendous surprize. They will prefer Boeing the moment thay also embrace
60 PM: (I've no idea what "rotfl" means but I've been waiting for weeks for a post funny enough to use it.) "Everyone is waxing sympathetic." Oh, yes. Toulo
61 PlaneHunter: If you actually decided to learn anything about Etihad Airways, then you'd probably surprised to see them operating five B777-300ERs... And btw - Egy
62 OldAeroGuy: As mentioned above, they do fly five 773ER's. Spare us the nationalistic diatribe.
63 UK_Dispatcher: It has just been officially announced in the last few minutes that James Hogan has been appointed as Etihad CEO with immediate effect.
64 NA: I´ve seen the A380 twice so far, and I´ve never seen a large airliner performing such a stunning flight display as the A380 at Farnborough. And its
65 Osiris30: As much as I dislike BA, tone down the hyperbole. BA isn't going anywhere for a long time. If UA and NW survived so will BA. Rolling On The Floor Lau
66 Zeke: Maybe we need a new thread over this "pension deficit", I understand that no additional BA aircraft can be purchased until it is sorted. Most countri
67 Osiris30: My understanding of that pension deficit is it is at least partially due to they way they have to report their investments. I still maintain that won
68 Zeke: I freely admit I do not understand the complexities of the situation. I am troubled by large legacy airlines in the USA that have slashed the value o
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