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Will KLM Come Back To MSP?  
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Sometimes KLM would stop service to MSP and have NW codeshare service. And then KLM would come back to MSP. What I'm wondering is will KLM come back to MSP? And if KLM Royal Dutch Airlines would come back to MSP, would KLM Asia come back to MSP to?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

KLM wont due to the NW partnership. KLM Asia wouldent because its just service for what its name implies, asia. Furthermore, nowadays I dont even think KLM Asia exists anywho.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineGeebs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

KLM and KLM Royal Dutch Airlines are the same airline....

User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
KLM Asia wouldent because its just service for what its name implies, asia. Furthermore, nowadays I dont even think KLM Asia exists anywho.

Asia huh? Than why have I seen it quite a few times at IAH?



"Drunks run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5881 times:

Where did KL Asia fly to from MSP? I wish KL Asia and KL Royal Dutch would come back to MSP.  Sad I've never seen a KL plane anywhere except at my house and it was 20,000 ft I think coming from YYZ I think.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineKjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 975 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 4):
Where did KL Asia fly to from MSP? I wish KL Asia and KL Royal Dutch would come back to MSP. I've never seen a KL plane anywhere except at my house and it was 20,000 ft I think coming from YYZ I think.

IIRC, KLM Asia was invented to get the rights to fly to Taiwan. Swissair, Air France, and British Airways all had Asia planes as well for the same purpose.



AA - Doing what we do best.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
KLM Asia wouldent because its just service for what its name implies, asia.

KLM Asia is only a name, which they use so they can fly into TPE without upsetting the Mainland Chinese government. It's still the same KLM, just with a different name for TPE flights, and KL Asia aircraft also do Transatlantic flights.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 3):
Asia huh? Than why have I seen it quite a few times at IAH?

Because now the birds fly in normal 744 rotation and are scheduled as such.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 4):
Where did KL Asia fly to from MSP? I wish KL Asia and KL Royal Dutch would come back to MSP.

KLM Asia is just a subsidiary KLM spun-off and registered in Taiwan so that it could operate flights to Taipei, Taiwan without upsetting Chinese authorities.

When KLM Asia aircraft are not flying to Taipei, they will be deployed on KLM's other routes which is why you would sometimes see KLM Asia planes in MSP.

Other airlines that have spun-off an Asia subsidiary include British Airways with British Asia Airways, Air France with Air France Asia, Japan Airlines with Japan Asia Airways, and Swissair with Swissair Asia.

British Asia Airways and Air France Asia do not exist anymore because British Airways and Air France discontinued their flights to Taiwan.

Swissair's successor, Swiss International Air Lines, does not have an Asia subsidiary as it does not operate flights to Taiwan.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
KLM Asia wouldent because its just service for what its name implies, asia.

Mate, KLM Asia aircraft are not used solely for TPE. From personal experience I have flown the KLM Asia birds from Mexico City to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Los Angeles, and Amsterdam to Houston. There is no difference, with the exception of a few interior stickers, and signage on the exterior of the aircraft.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
Furthermore, nowadays I dont even think KLM Asia exists anywho

It does, from what I undertand. It exists solely so as that the superiority complex people in Peking dont throw a fit.

What airlines have done for politics over the years....


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 9):
Mate, KLM Asia aircraft are not used solely for TPE.

I know, read on:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
Because now the birds fly in normal 744 rotation and are scheduled as such.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5803 times:

What are the chances of KL flying from AMS-MSP with 777s instead of 742s, 744s, or MD11s? Could AF plan service to MSP because AF is partners with KL, and a MSP-CDG route would do nice hopefully.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):
What are the chances of KL flying from AMS-MSP with 777s instead of 742s, 744s, or MD11s?

Slim to none. KLM is utlilizing the 777 equipment to high yield business destinations of which MSP is sadly neither.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

NW and KL have agreed to use NW metal between AMS and NW hubs... you won't see KL at MSP.. or DTW or MEM for that matter. If you want to fly KL, fly NW to ORD or JFK, IAH, etc.... then catch KLM


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5753 times:

NW and KLM act as one across the Atlantic between the United States. As part of the alliance they share revenue and have roughly an equal number of flights between the two.

As said, as part of the agreement, NW will operate their aircraft on all routes from their US hubs, plus some additional city pairs to even the mix (BOS, SEA, EWR this winter).

Since there are multiple flights per day between DTW & MSP and AMS, it makes sense for NW to operate all of the flights to offer a consistent production.

In short, the answer is no, you will not see KLM in MSP anytime soon.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5627 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 12):
KLM is utlilizing the 777 equipment to high yield business destinations of which MSP is sadly neither.

That is not entirely correct. The WBC cabin on the KLM B772 is rather small with just 35 seats, and the aircraft are not only used to high yielding business destinations. Currently, the B772 goes, for instance, to destinations like DAR, JRO, CPT and MNL, neither of which are business destinations. In the future, the B772 will also be deployed to LIM, another mainly leisure destination. So, while the B772 is sometimes deployed to business destinations, like DXB and JFK, the aircraft is not uniquely reserved for that.

As for KLM as MSP, or DTW for that matter, is makes more sense to have NW operate these routes, as it is a perfect fit in the operational model, since MSP and DTW are NW hubs. Having NW fly transatlantics from non hub destinations, like the current BOS-AMS operation, is relatively more complicated because the aircraft somehow needs to be repositioned and as such the operation becomes less flexible and relatively more prone to irregularities.


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

just a side note but you all know that a KLM 777 would look very pretty at DTW in the new terminal even if it won't happen, we can dream


One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

When NW was doing codeshare service in 2001 or 2003 KL came back to MSP, but then NW and KL did codeshare service again. How come that happened? And why does the MSP airline list still have KL? KL technically does not fly to MSP.

I'm still going to pray that KL will come back to MSP with a least one KL 777 almost each day. Didn't Minnesota start Target? If Minnesota did then MN is kind of a business place.

 pray 



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5415 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 17):
When NW was doing codeshare service in 2001 or 2003 KL came back to MSP, but then NW and KL did codeshare service again. How come that happened? And why does the MSP airline list still have KL? KL technically does not fly to MSP.

As has been pointed out to you quite a few times, NW and KLM operate as one trans-atlantic. If NW is flying MSP-AMS, so is KLM. IF KLM is flying ORD-AMS, so is NW. All trans-atlantic flights carry both KL and NW flight numbers and the two carriers split the revenue regardless of which flight number. Much more than a code share.


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Now I think I get now. So if I see a A330 at MSP is going to AMS the flight number will say (example K1098KL) or something like that?
And the facts you just told me are easier than have regular KL and NW fly to MSP?



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
Now I think I get now. So if I see a A330 at MSP is going to AMS the flight number will say (example K1098KL) or something like that?

I think you got it.


User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5312 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
Now I think I get now. So if I see a A330 at MSP is going to AMS the flight number will say (example K1098KL) or something like that?

For TATL flights this is the rule for KL coded NW operated flights:
add 6000 to the NW flight number, e.g. we have NW 40, its KL code will be KL6040.

For NW coded KL operated flights add 8000 to the KL flight number to get the NW flight number, e.g KL coded KL operated KL652 is NW coded KL operated NW8652.

As many people prointed here NW and KL have a joint-venture ops for TATL flights. So they split the profits.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

If KL flys to MSP, why doesn't AF? MSP needs a CDG route with either AF or NW, but would most likely be NW. Or NW and AF could do codeshare service from MSP to CDG to make it easier.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 22):
If KL flys to MSP, why doesn't AF? MSP needs a CDG route with either AF or NW, but would most likely be NW. Or NW and AF could do codeshare service from MSP to CDG to make it easier.

Give it some time and they will. NW did not have a proper plane so far. They even did not have enough A330s for MSP-AMS ops. My hunch is it's going to be soon....



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Think goodness the MSP-CDG route will be soon.
NW didn't have enough A330s for MSP-AMS? I thought they had plenty.



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
25 Bobnwa : An AF flight to MSP would not have anti trust immunity like the KL/NW relationship. It would strictly be a code share which is different. NW/DL/AF/KL
26 Af773atmsp : To Bobnwa Would this be the same for all Sky Team airlines that don't fly to MSP? And would it be the same for Star Alliance airlines? How does an air
27 Avianca : saw them 4 weeks ago in AUA
28 Post contains links Jano : But, would not NW codesharing on AF flight beyong CDG help here? I was under the impression (based on this PR*) that NW would put its code on AF flig
29 PSU.DTW.SCE : As said, NW has been focusing on retiring the DC-10's from Trans-Atlantic service, replacing them with A330's as they are delivered. That will soon be
30 Jano : Are there any data, publicly available, on how much traffic there is between the given city pair?
31 Af773atmsp : In the 2004 Airline Competition Plan on the MSP website it said "two international flag carriers have thought about service at MSP". What airlines are
32 Burnsie28 : Probably Mexicana, Westjet, and thats probably about it. The only other one that might see a shot is Finnair or SAS with the large scandanavian popula
33 PSU.DTW.SCE : Finnair & SAS......no way. Yes, there may be a large population of Scandanavian decenants in the area, but its not like there is a lot of VFR traffic,
34 Af773atmsp : NW already has non stop service to LGW so BA I doubt. My best guess is AF and LH.
35 SESGDL : I actually have seen that there are over 150 daily MSP-CDG O&D passengers, so there is O&D. MSP has a metro area of over 3.2 million, so there's defi
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : Well you supported my statement.....what I meant by doesn't exist, is meaning there isn't enough O&D between MSP & CDG to support daily service alone,
37 Af773atmsp : Alitalia (correct me if I'm wrong on the Italian airline name) to be another carrier at MSP. When I look at concourse G at MSP this is what I see, red
38 SESGDL : DTW has less than 300 as well, so there's not enough O&D there either. Connections make everything at MSP and DTW. Do you think O&D supports DL's ATL
39 Lovinitflyboy : Qantas had one to!
40 Post contains images QFSYD744 : What???? Alitalia back in the late 90's had planned on operating the 747-200 on FCO-DTW, at that time KL/NW/AZ were all buddy-buddy and Northwest was
41 Af773atmsp : DTW always gets the big international carriers. Detroit isn't New York City! What international carrier has never looked at DTW? Are any of these airl
42 Kjet12 : I really hope you are joking. You have asked about these carriers coming to MSP in some of your previous threads. You even said BA was doubtful since
43 KingAir200 : You're right. It certainly isn't JFK. That's why only BA, LH, AF, and RJ fly there.
44 JpetekYXMD80 : Good to go? For about the 500th time.....NO! Why, for 1 flight? That would happen at most 3x week. Which is VERY unlikely at this time. ??
45 Af773atmsp : Ok maybe not good to go, but are any of these airlines looking at MSP? You're right, I did say BA was doubtful at MSP. I was just asking, but BA at MS
46 MEACEDAR : KLM will probably never come back to MSP because of the parternship with NW and the SkyTeam. The only way KLM comes back to MSP is if something very b
47 PSU.DTW.SCE : RJ flies to Amman, Jordan, due to the large Middle Eastern population in Metro Detroit (largest in the USA) KLM will not fly to SEA per the alliance,
48 Post contains images Af773atmsp : I thought AF was out because NW was proposing MSP-CDG route. Its sad that I'll never see KL at MSP unless its a diversion.
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