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Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?  
User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7956 times:

I asked my travel agent to look for an inexpensive ticket to Buenos Aires. I usually pay between USD 1,000 and 1,200 for a round trip from Stockholm and a ten days / two weeks stay.

Now I was told it was impossible to get anything bellow 1,500, probably around 2,000. And that the situation will be the same for the next fourth months. Or maybe until past Eastern. For the first time in 15 years (I travel to South America at least twice a year) the best deal I was offered was flying through the US (Newark/ Continental) for about USD 1,200.

My agent told me that no airline is covering the gap left by Varig fewer frequencies to Europe.

My question: has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

Best regards
Erico

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7924 times:

Europe and South America have plenty of flights connecting the two continents. It's not like Varig was a major player in the market.

In MAD alone Iberia connects Brazil and Spain with 26 weekly flights between the two countries. Now through in flights on Air Europa, BRA, British Airways, Alitalia, Air France, Lufthansa, Condor, and Air Madrid. That's a lot flights between Europe and Brazil weekly.

As for flights to EZE you have Air France, Air Madrid, Lufthansa, British Airways, Aerolineas, and Iberia.

For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia  Wink

[Edited 2006-10-08 20:52:10]


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7921 times:

Quoting Il75 (Thread starter):
My question: has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

If the current airlines are "profiting" as you put it, why would they want to add extra flights. I doubt the flights between Europe and South America are booked full, so there appears to be enough flights.


User currently offlineAF454GRU From France, joined Aug 2006, 40 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7854 times:

You can try KLM via Sao Paulo GRU and then to EZE on a code shared flight with JJ. Or also JJ itself via CDG and GRU.
Other airlines to EZE are LH from FRA via GRU and AZ from MXP.
You should check with AR, IB and NM from MAD.


User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
As for flights to EZE you have Air France, Air Madrid, Lufthansa, British Airways, Aerolineas, and Iberia

I don't think BA do, do they? Unless code-share?

As for the question:has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

BA have announced 10x weekly from LHR-GRU, up from daily, and TAM announced daily daily flights, starting next year (March?), all this after Varigs absence from the route.
However, I believe this is simply both airllines taking advantage of Varigs demise, and filling the slots for that route. And this is only one route, though it may be an important one.

I don't think this seems to be an underserved market, going on how the airlines see it. Maybe there is, and hence the price increase, and they are enjoying the period, I don't really know. But it appears not to me.

Others will hopefully know more.



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7791 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 4):
I don't think BA do, do they? Unless code-share?

The 247 continues 4 times a week to EZE.

The other thing to consider may be getting to GRU anywhich route comes out cheapest and then taking GOL to EZE.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7619 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia

What about AF, LA and AV???  Smile

You could go to CCS or BOG, there´s flights from these destinations to EZE, of course you need a short stop in CDG, BCN or MAD but it could get you cheap flights.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Well, maybe the guy at the travel agency miss-informed me. But I found it reasonable that if Varig left all major European capitals it would have an effect on the market, and not precisely for the travelers best.

My personal experience is that ticket prices for ARN-EZE-ARN increased since May by about 30%, that it is very difficult to find any economy class (lower fare, restricted) tickets in IB, LH, AF, AR, AI, or TAM next month and that it is cheaper to fly through Newark and Houston to Buenos Aires than flying directly from Europe to Argentina. It is the first time ever in my 15 years of traveling (and yes I know which airlines operate those routes, I've flow tem all. And add: Aeroflot, Lineas Aereas Paraguayas, SAS, Swissair and Sabena)

Regards
Erico


User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

Thank you, RCS763AV

I would love to fly Avianca again. I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays. Barcelona or Madrid would get too expensive if I have to get there from Stockholm -no low price alternatives. But Paris is very convenient. I will take a look.

regards
Erico


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7430 times:

Quoting Il75 (Reply 8):
I would love to fly Avianca again. I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays. Barcelona or Madrid would get too expensive if I have to get there from Stockholm -no low price alternatives. But Paris is very convenient. I will take a look.

If you check www.klm.se you will find a round trip for 10000 SEK (1050EUR/4250ARS) on KLM ARL-AMS-GRU and GRU-EZE on JJ.
You will fly the 777 on AMS-GRU and collect FB miles on the TAM operated flight.
Dates I tried were 4-Dec out and 18-Dec in.
Good luck and I envy you - Argentina is great.


User currently offlinePhotoLPPT From Portugal, joined Jul 2004, 511 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

Hi,

You can try TP from Stockholm to GRU or GIG, via LIS. There I guess you'll find several options into EZE.

Regards,
Alex


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Quoting Il75 (Reply 8):
I would love to fly Avianca again. I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays

When i said Paris i meant AF...AV only flies to BCN and MAD, sorry.

Of course, if you wanted to fly AV or AR, you could go CDG-BOG-EZE using one of the two in the latter segment!

[Edited 2006-10-10 04:52:09]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6956 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Il75 (Thread starter):
My question: has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

Air Europa will begin 4x weekly GIG-MAD, and added 1x weekly SSA-MAD.
Iberia will add service to both GIG and SAO
Air France will add 2x weekly on their daily light CDG-GRU
Brazilian BRA is running 1x weekly MAD-LIS-GIG-GRU / 1x weekly MAD-LIS-GRU-GIG / 2 weekly CGN-GIG
TAM will begin by this month end daily LHR-GRU
TAM is looking for 7x GIG-CDG and 7x GRU-MXP

BA will add 3x extra-flights during the brazilian summer, TAP is looking for some extra flights too.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6928 times:

Thank you, Felipe.

I was surprised a major player as Varig could leave the scene without others filling the gap. I hope that reflects on the prices soon.

regards
Erico


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8287 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6798 times:
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While many European airlines fly to Brazil, Sao Paulo is the main gateway. Buenos Aires had suffered more for several reasons, Swissair went broke and stopped flying there, Lufthansa went from nonstop to EZE to a stop via GRU. KLM stopped flying to EZE, period. BA,at some point, went from nonstop to a stop in GRU too. Varig going under hasn't helped things either, but TAM is coming to the rescue.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6700 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Il75 (Reply 13):
I was surprised a major player as Varig could leave the scene without others filling the gap. I hope that reflects on the prices soon.

Hi Il75, in fact we are paying very high fares for last minute tickets to CDG, FRA, MAD, LHR and MXP because of the end of the major RG flights. The problem is also brazilians are willing to travel abroad (Euro vs Real is in a very good rate, down 15% over last year average rate). With Varig, our authorities estimates a 20% grow over 2005 levels. Without Varig, this huge demand forced the prices!

I believe Tam new flights to CDG and MXP, as well as Alitalia announced today their intention to upgrade Brazilian flights from 7x to 14x.

Varig confirmed today they will move again, this time back to GIG.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6636 times:

I just phoned to another travel agency and I said I wanted to fly to EZE from ARN, economy,two weeks during November. Iberia, Lufthansa and Air France had no seats available, they said, and the only alternative other than touring around the hemisphere with Continental (and queueing for a transit visa since I am an Argentine citizen) was TAM through London for about € 1,700.
The advised me not to book any flight with Alitalia since "they are very close to bankruptcy an there is a big risk you'll be left in Buenos Aires".  Confused

I see no good deals for flying to Argentina in the near future.
Erico


User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19196 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6632 times:

One option next year for my girlfriend and I is Argentina and Chile. Not bad prices, either: about £550 return to Argentina from London and about £560 into Argentina and out of Chile. All with IB via MAD. Probably 98% of all the options we've seen, at good prices, were with IB via MAD. Naturally, that's not surprising, in view of IB's obvious domination. More expensive options (perhaps not if flying to/from Brazil) were mainly with JJ and, then, BA (about £900 for LON-CAI; TLV-LHR-SAO-EZE-SAO-LHR).

[Edited 2006-10-12 10:55:04]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6576 times:

Quoting Il75 (Reply 16):
I just phoned to another travel agency and I said I wanted to fly to EZE from ARN, economy,two weeks during November. Iberia, Lufthansa and Air France had no seats available, they said, and the only alternative other than touring around the hemisphere with Continental (and queueing for a transit visa since I am an Argentine citizen) was TAM through London for about € 1,700.

Once again, at KLM.se I see flights in November for less than 11.000 SEK or 1100€ all taxes included. It's not my point that I stronly advocate KL, but you can get to Argentina in November for a very reasonable price.


User currently offlineEastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6509 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia

I would not fly Iberia if the ticket was free and on first. British Airways, Lufthansa and soon LAN will be your best options.



AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6464 times:

Try looking at flights out of Madrid. I think you can get a flight for less than 500 euros return with Air Madrid /Air Europa /Iberia/Aerolineas Argentinas. Then you can by another ticket to get there from Sweeden.

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6392 times:

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 19):

Have you flown Iberia?



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineSwissA330 From Switzerland, joined Mar 2002, 613 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

I flew Iberia twice: The first time and the last time. It happened to be the same flight... TAP on the other hand is imho a very good airline. You do get the odd A320 with no leather seats yet or the A310, but usually TAP really have good aircraft and very friendly service.
Given The choice I would definitively choose them over IBERIA or Varig for that matter.
Also, Lisbon is easy to transfer...



swissair/+/ we care
User currently offlineEastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6259 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 21):
Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 19):


Have you flown Iberia?

Yes I have. Twice and never again.



AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7399 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6242 times:

Several of the RG flights to LHR had add-on LHR-CPH-LHR sectors. Now I do not think there are any Scandinavia-South America direct services. Could this be impacting prices from STO?

25 Post contains images RICARIZA : hehe, or LAN or AV.. They are not but they will, apparently for the first quarter of 2007 taking into account the words of the owner of the company t
26 Treeny : My two cents worth say that there are plenty of flights but they are getting some damn expensive... Anyone think why cause I havent a clue because it
27 StarGoldLHR : IBeria is a bit of a dive airline. Ive never seen a smile on the staff. Still they did give me $14.00 of compensation for losing my luggage for 5 days
28 Sukhoi : Probably quicker and cheaper to apply for a Swedish passport!
29 Post contains images Il75 : Well... It could be a good reason. I'll think of it. Erico
30 Post contains images Legacy135 : I don't think that there are that many flights from Europe to South America. I rather would say, there are plenty of connections trough MAD and if you
31 Post contains images Iberia340600 : Gotta love some of the comments people leave.
32 LipeGIG : Agree and the demand is growing at higher levels than airlines are adding seats to the market. Results ? Higher fares.... hard time to get a seat on
33 Post contains images AlitaliaMD11 : Eh...?
34 EnviroTO : Maybe the problem is the number of connections out of Stolkholm. Out of London there are a number of flights under 1,200USD to BUE such as AC.
35 Post contains images Sukhoi : It´s Stockholm or in Spanish Estocolmo!
36 LIPZ : According to "Guidaviaggi" (Italian only), AZ want to reintroduce FCO-GRU in addition to MXP flights as one of the 1st steps of the new business plan
37 Eastern023 : May hurt some feelings, but these comments are true. Truth hurts sometimes.
38 TAP1972 : II75 TAP has nor been mentioned much, but right now is the european airliner with more weekly flights to Brazil. Sao Paulo, Rio, Salvador daily, plus
39 Neo : hahaha... Don't count so fast on JJ to take over RG routes... JJ is known for its conservative strategy on launching intl flights. Up until now it ha
40 LipeGIG : REC and FOR are served daily with A310, REC will be upgraded very soon to A332. NAT is served 6x weekly. SSA will get extra-flights on december due t
41 Fermarta : IBERIA will fly 15x weekly to EZE during November and most of December. A few days ago it was still possible to find return tickets MAD-EZE for about
42 FlySSC : Concerning AF, ALL destinations in South America will be served NONSTOP from/to Paris this winter : CAY = DAILY A343 CCS = DAILY B744 BOG = DAILY A343
43 Iberia340600 : No....actually they are your ridiculous comments....not true at all and completely absurd!
44 LipeGIG : Hi Pierre! I believe AF is just waiting the new bilateral to be signed by Brazil and France. Seems that it has been requested by AF and Tam (probably
45 Post contains links Eastern023 : Based on personal experience, plus friends and family and add all the reviews on websites like ailinequality.com, Iberia is indeed a sub standard air
46 Post contains links Iberia340600 : You are kidding right? airlinequality.com? That is your basis? First off, most people write reviews when they have a bad experience. More than half o
47 Abrelosojos : = IB is a pretty crappy airline. Besides price and great connections to Latin America, I cannot really think of any reason to fly them. Cheers, A.
48 Post contains images Iberia340600 : This coming from one of the usual IB bashers from the same region. You guys never quit.
49 Krist0f : IB is quite good when it comes to BusinessPlus. I've flown them several times to JNB and GRU on the A346 and am very happy with the comfort in Busine
50 Eastern023 : So, okay lets be fair. Not everything can be bad, They do have good frequencies and good connections through MAD. Specially if you are flying To/from
51 Abrelosojos : = I have nothing to hide. Why shall I "quit" when my experiences have not changed? IB is a crappy airline. Period. = Ok, I will give you that. B+ is
52 Velasco : Last Christmas I flew on Iberia to Buenos Aires and I swear never EVER to repeat that experience. It's simply beyond belief. Will be flying on TAP to
53 Eastern023 : More bad news for the IB fans. Certainly outnumbered.
54 Iberia340600 : Um...an overview of what happened would be nice since anyone can make that statement without stating the reasons.
55 Pe@rson : My girlfriend and I (she can speak fluent South American Spanish) wish to spend 3.5 months in S. A. next year (we try to travel about 3+ months a year
56 Eastern023 : I did this trip around South America 9 years ago while in college. US to Brazil to Argentine, Chile and back to the US. A lot of people do this. Chec
57 Rmcf : People that tend to bash Iberia have only been in one flight with this airline. I think it's not enough to have a decent opinion about a company. For
58 Eastern023 : Please read the treads closer. Childish?, maybe, but as you said same arguments over and over and from different people perhaps!. Some truth must be
59 Abrelosojos : = I would suggest looking at CO or CMs excellent USD 300 all-in prices now in effect ex NYC area to UIO/GYE. You can get to NYC for an additional USD
60 Post contains images Pe@rson : Hey, Thanks a lot. Haven't yet found $300 deals - could you suggest dates, websites, etc? - but I have found other great fares, e.g. JFK-BOG-UIO-BOG-
61 Post contains links and images Legacy135 : Going via MAD you may also check out AV, which is a pretty good airline, offering fair deals. Best you look on www.aviancaeuropa.com which normally c
62 MEACEDAR : Can't you just go from ARN-CDG-EZE. I saw a ticket online for like 1,150 plus tax and all the rest of that crap.
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