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Commuters Of US Legacies: Inhouse Vs. Third Party  
User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1473 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

Last week I flew an American Eagle ATR 72 on the routing MIA-NAS-MIA and was shocked not only by the appearance of the plane whose interior looked worse than anything I experienced during my time in central Africa, but also by the amazing rudeness of the ground staff & FAs (I will not mention the 2 hours wait in the check-in line, nor the lost luggage or the delay caused by the fact that pilots noticed after the doors were closed that were were overweight and had to offload a passenger, or the fact that we backed for 30 minutes in the plane in the sweltering heat with no a/c whatsoever prior to start up..).

Comparing this flight to flight to recent experiences on Shuttle America flight for DL (outstanding) or Chautauqua for UA (good), I wonder why the "in house" commuter airlines of US legacy carriers tend to be so much worse (with the exception of Continental Express with whom I have only had positive experiences so far) than independent commuter airlines flying for the legacies under a contract.

Is this just my highly subjective perception or have you made similar observations ?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26487 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Thread starter):
Comparing this flight to flight to recent experiences on Shuttle America flight for DL (outstanding) or Chautauqua for UA (good),



Quoting HAJFlyer (Thread starter):
Last week I flew an American Eagle ATR 72

Here is the thing you seemed to miss. You flew on brand new pure jets on what were likely business heavy routes with DLC and UAX while the Eagle route was on an older, turboprop operating a bit of a milk run. Eagle is just as good, if not better, than the numerous contract regionals, and they are far better for their parent's bottom line. Further, if you had compared apples to apples and flown an Eagle E145 on LGA-YYZ or something of the sort, I am sure you would not be making such comparissons.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Here is the thing you seemed to miss. You flew on brand new pure jets on what were likely business heavy routes with DLC and UAX while the Eagle route was on an older, turboprop operating a bit of a milk run

I encourage you to show me a plane operated for UAX / DLC by a contract carrier that is in an equally pitiful shape as some of the AE ATR 72 are.

I do not mind flying on a turboprop at all, and I do not expect a perfect cabin with a straight-out-of -the factory look, but what AE offers their customers on their ATR 72 with regard to cabin quality (exceedingly dirty and scruffy) is definitely not acceptable for any 1st world carrier.

I have never seen such a thoroughly trashed interior on Air Zimbabwe, Zambia Airways, Lineas Areas de Mozambique, TAAG or other 3rd world carrier operating under truly difficult conditions. While I am sure their ATR 72 are well maintained from a technical perspective, the look of the interiors on the two I flew with was simply beyond words.


User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 747 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 2):
I encourage you to show me a plane operated for UAX / DLC by a contract carrier that is in an equally pitiful shape as some of the AE ATR 72 are.

I've flown on US Express (Piedmont) Dash 8s several times in the last two months and they are in pretty bad shape on the inside. Service was great...but the interiors need some help.

Anyone know when we will see a Dash in the new US colors?


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26487 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 2):
I encourage you to show me a plane operated for UAX / DLC by a contract carrier that is in an equally pitiful shape as some of the AE ATR 72 are.

I do not mind flying on a turboprop at all, and I do not expect a perfect cabin with a straight-out-of -the factory look, but what AE offers their customers on their ATR 72 with regard to cabin quality (exceedingly dirty and scruffy) is definitely not acceptable for any 1st world carrier.

Take a look at any hard used turboprop, or pure jet for that matter. MQ's operation in the Carribean features some of the hardest flying this side of the Alaskan Bush and takes its toll on the aircraft. Again, fly on an Eagle ERJ similar to the Chautauqua one you flew on at UAX and they will look almost identical inside.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
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Is American Eagle Executive part of AA, or is it a separate entity? Because aren't all the ATR's AE Executive?

I just flew on an AE ATR72 EYW-MIA last week and had ZERO complaints. I actually could probably think of several compliments, clean, on-time, friendly, got me safely from point A to point B, etc.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26487 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5):
Is American Eagle Executive part of AA, or is it a separate entity? Because aren't all the ATR's AE Executive?

The ATRs are owned by AMR and operated by an AMR owned company.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

I've found the US Airways Express/PSA Airlines flights to be superb - great FAs and smooth onboard service.


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineAggieflyboi04 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 3):
Anyone know when we will see a Dash in the new US colors?

The DASHes are going to be the last ones painted form what I have heard, if they get painted.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2533 times:
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I have also always had good experiences on Continental Express - ExpressJet.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11609 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

HAJ, please don't let your impression of Executive (the wholly-owned American Eagle subsidiary that operates all the ATRs) color your impression of all of Eagle. Eagle, overall, is no better or worse than any other regionals. People have bad experiences, people have good experiences. It all just depends.

User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2526 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
HAJ, please don't let your impression of Executive (the wholly-owned American Eagle subsidiary that operates all the ATRs) color your impression of all of Eagle. Eagle, overall, is no better or worse than any other regionals. People have bad experiences, people have good experiences. It all just depends.

Amen.


User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
HAJ, please don't let your impression of Executive (the wholly-owned American Eagle subsidiary that operates all the ATRs) color your impression of all of Eagle. Eagle, overall, is no better or worse than any other regionals. People have bad experiences, people have good experiences. It all just depends.

Commavia, sure that one experience was certainly exceptional and other AE flights I have taken in the past have certainly left we with more positive memories; nevertheless, when I summarize all my US commuter flights, I do have to say that those provided by independent contract carriers were better (cleanliness of aircraft, friendliness of FAs, etc.) by a not insignificant margin overall.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

HAJ-Just a heads up, Shuttle America and Chautauqua (along with Republic) both have the same owners, belong to the same unions, and for all intents and purposes are the same company.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 13):
HAJ-Just a heads up, Shuttle America and Chautauqua (along with Republic) both have the same owners, belong to the same unions, and for all intents and purposes are the same company

Whatever they do to ensure that their FAs leave a positive impression, it sure works.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 14):
Whatever they do to ensure that their FAs leave a positive impression, it sure works.

I have no clue...after all, I did interview for a flight attendant job, and from what I have heard had to have a pretty spectacularly DREADFUL interview to not be invited to training (I likely would have been axed within weeks anyway, as I would have absolutely REFUSED to join their flight attendants union, the IBT).



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 747 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

Quoting Aggieflyboi04 (Reply 8):
The DASHes are going to be the last ones painted form what I have heard, if they get painted.

What a shame. The Dash would look great in the new colors....especially since they operate a good number of flights out of MDT.

Maybe Piedmont will get some jets in the future...


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

It's unfortunate you had such a bad experience. But my feelings are that wholly (or partially) owned commuter subsidiaries provide much better and more consistent service that subcontract flying partners.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Thread starter):
Comparing this flight to flight to recent experiences on Shuttle America flight for DL (outstanding) or Chautauqua for UA (good),

 thumbsup  My experiences on RP have always been good. In fact, most regionals I've flown have been good - Skywest, ACA, RP and others - sorry to hear about your experience. Most of them don't much differ from any other.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Again, fly on an Eagle ERJ similar to the Chautauqua one you flew on at UAX and they will look almost identical inside.

He's right. I believe I've only once (a while back, up at O'Hare) seen the inside of the AA ERJ for Eagle (I can't remember - do they have leather seating, like the DH CRJ's did after they turned into Independence?).

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 17):
But my feelings are that wholly (or partially) owned commuter subsidiaries provide much better and more consistent service that subcontract flying partners.

I disagree. ACA had great service and was not owned in any part by DL or UA, carriers for whom they did service. RP has great service, and they are not owned, in part or in whole, by any other carrier.

-R


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26487 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 18):
I believe I've only once (a while back, up at O'Hare) seen the inside of the AA ERJ for Eagle (I can't remember - do they have leather seating

Yes, they do have leather seating. The only airline that I know of that doesn't have leather in their RJs is Air Wisconsin.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 18):
ACA had great service and was not owned in any part by DL or UA, carriers for whom they did service.

You are just about the only person who says that. Most who flew ACA regularly would avoid IAD just so they could avoid flying them.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
You are just about the only person who says that. Most who flew ACA regularly would avoid IAD just so they could avoid flying them.

I would hear, more than just on occasion, that folks would avoid flying DH (in part, because of the service). But (as I worked for them - and, yes, I am biased towards them - I had a good working experience, mostly, there), most pax with whom I would speak (not a whole lot) had more praise than angst for the service. Dulles, though, does stink for a regional - connections were a pain in the butt going to/from A concourse to C and D concourses. Part of the game, though, back then.

-R


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 20):
Dulles, though, does stink for a regional - connections were a pain in the butt going to/from A concourse to C and D concourses. Part of the game, though, back then.

Isn't it now part of the game again, only with a different regional?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 20):
I would hear, more than just on occasion, that folks would avoid flying DH (in part, because of the service). But (as I worked for them - and, yes, I am biased towards them - I had a good working experience, mostly, there), most pax with whom I would speak (not a whole lot) had more praise than angst for the service.

Not so sure about that. Independence had a good customer service reputation, but Atlantic Coast's reputation was subpar (I'm being nice).



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 21):
Independence had a good customer service reputation, but Atlantic Coast's reputation was subpar (I'm being nice).

Then I was running in a crowd with a narrow field of vision. I worked with the crews and FA's, and they (mostly) seemed like they had their game on. I just haven't heard so many horror stories, I guess.

-R


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26487 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 20):
Dulles, though, does stink for a regional - connections were a pain in the butt going to/from A concourse to C and D concourses.

That isn't particularly a pain. I mean, the mobile lounge provides a painless enough connection.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 22):
I worked with the crews and FA's, and they (mostly) seemed like they had their game on. I just haven't heard so many horror stories, I guess.

There is a Global Services/Million Miler who specifically booked bad connections at ORD to avoid ACA.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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