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Alitalia On The Verge Of Collapse  
User currently offlineFD728 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 136 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17902 times:

German news channel N24 reports that Alitalia is in the worst financial situation ever and that a shut down is highly possible within the next months.
They report that the organization and management of the troubled carrier is in complete chaos.

FD728

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17864 times:

2 Options:

1. Government will pump in money
2. AF-KL will take it over.

they won't go...


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17870 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 1):

they won't go...

 checkmark 

It's the usual stuff.
Again it's the "final attempt" to make Alitalia profitable, and to turn the company in a profitable service oriented airline, backed by a strong international alliance and strong national presence.
Prodi said the company has until January to solve a couple of minor issues, like fleet renewal, ground services, labor-unions, lost market share in domestic market, boosting the image of a reliable SkyTeam partner.

See http://www.unita.it/view.asp?IDcontent=60153 for more information (Italian only).

[Edited 2006-10-10 11:56:33]

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17836 times:

Quoting FD728 (Thread starter):
German news channel N24 reports that Alitalia is in the worst financial situation ever and that a shut down is highly possible within the next months.
They report that the organization and management of the troubled carrier is in complete chaos.

This has been the case for years now. Nothing really new, except if they really go under, which I think would be really sad.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 1):
1. Government will pump in money

EU rules forbid this. Look at Olympic, they have to pay back all the money they received from Greece in the last couple of years...



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineFD728 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17798 times:

That's right, this has been the case for years now, but the interesting thing is that they now reported that a conversation between Romano Prodi and a union leader was overheard and according to Prodi's statements, the Italian government is no longer willing to keep Alitalia alive.

User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17800 times:

Reading the Italian news I found this quote:

«visto che a un maggior numero di ore volate corrisponderebbero maggiori perdite»

Freely translated as: "the more we fly, the more we loose"  Big grin  Big grin

Source: http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/E.../2006/10_Ottobre/10/alitalia.shtml (Italian only)


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17756 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 5):
Freely translated as: "the more we fly, the more we loose

Maybe they will be profitable again when the stop flying Big grin


User currently offlineFD728 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17702 times:

Yes they lose 50000 Euros per hour. Even though they started restructuring efforts two years ago.
Prodi is now officially sitting together with union members desperately looking for investors who are willing the buy the carrier, probably close it and then restart it with a better cost structure. Interesting to see who is willing to take the chance.


User currently onlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17688 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 6):
Maybe they will be profitable again when the stop flying

I recall an article in, IIRC, The Economist a while back (one year or so) where it was said Alitalia's flight operations were profitable, and it was just the enormously bloated ground services that were dragging the whole company.

Is this still true?


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17652 times:

Quoting FD728 (Reply 7):
Yes they lose 50000 Euros per hour.

Assuming the January deadline is serious and your number is true, they'd have only € 120M left in the company.


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 954 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17628 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 6):
Maybe they will be profitable again when the stop flying

No, that only applies to American airlines that declare bankruptcy. Alitalia has been on the verge of shut-down/whatever for at least the past 25 years. While it may happen, I'll believe it when I see it.



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1750 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17421 times:

No offence, but Alitalia is just a joke, honestly. They should finally really shut down the whole operation. Even if they were to become more lean and efficient, which I doubt from a state run enterprise, who would want to fly with them anymore anyway? Alitalia staff go on strike at such regular intervals they've made the whole airline completely unreliable.

User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17421 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 11):
Alitalia staff go on strike at such regular intervals they've made the whole airline completely unreliable.

At least they have a chapter in their printed time-table that tells you which flights will be on strike Big grin


User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1750 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17375 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 12):
At least they have a chapter in their printed time-table that tells you which flights will be on strike

How very considerate...


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17234 times:

Italy govt aims to strengthen Alitalia, seek partner - sources UPDATE


ROME (AFX) - Transport Minister Alessandro Bianchi said that the government aims to strengthen the troubled state-controlled airline Alitalia SpA, so that it can find a partner, according to sources that attended a meeting between the company's unions and the government.

Bianchi aims to turn Alitalia into 'a strong carrier' focused on its domestic market, which will then have to enter a 'strong' international alliance, according to a source.

During the meeting, Prime Minister Romano Prodi told the unions that the company is experiencing 'the most difficult period of its history,' the source said.

The prime minister added that the situation is out control, it said.

Last week, the daily Il Sole 24 Ore cited a company document in which Alitalia chief executive Giancarlo Cimoli said the airline cannot survive with its current cost structure and the existing industry rules.

The government has already announced plans to present a new business plan for Alitalia within three months.

On the sidelines of talks with the government, Fabrizio Solari, secretary general of the union FILT CGIL, called for immediate government action 'to still be alive in three months' time.'

Speaking at the end of the meeting, Bianchi said the last re-capitalisation of Alitalia had been 'done badly' and didn't help the airline to develop.

Under the new business plan, the government 'cannot give state aid to Alitalia, and we don't want to give any more', he said.

However, funds could be given to the sector, or funds could come from the market, he said.

Bianchi said he hoped Prodi's intervention would lead to greater market confidence in Alitalia and investments by the airline.

Sult union leader Andrea Cavola said the meeting saw a strong request from participants for new management to launch the plan, while Prodi said he would first have to talk to Cimoli.

Cavola said Alitalia couldn't wait three months for the new plan, adding that the company ought not to take 'unilateral' actions, and that such actions will not make 'any truce' possible.

Analysts say that unions refuse to talk directly with management.


http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2006/10/10/afx3078700.html


User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17210 times:

Theres also talk of BA being AZ's new partner:

http://www.tg5.mediaset.it/economia/...rticoli/2006/10/articolo2817.shtml

[Edited 2006-10-10 14:18:44]

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12333 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

Perhaps we should rename this thread to "The Never Ending 'Alitalia On The Verge of Collapse' Thread, Part XXIV"...  biggrin 


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17112 times:

Statistics show that transatlantic capacity from Italy is up more than frmo any other US country.... other airlines smell the blood in the water and are ready to increase their position in the Italian market.

User currently offlineDesediez From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 17027 times:

Does somebody know, which was the last year of profit for AZ (in case it ever occurred)  Confused This is really the slow suicide of a traditional company.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 17013 times:

Anyone want to take a guess as to how long it will take the Italian government to defy the E.U. and bail out Alitalia this time?

Let this thing die, already.


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 17002 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 1):
1. Government will pump in money
2. AF-KL will take it over.

Government take over is most likely, i think.

AF-KL would be smart to let the carrier collapse and then scoop up some pieces that make money, leaving the rest for the scrap heap.

Forgive me, but Alitalia deserves to die. Their employees are extremely disruptive to the company by staging strikes constantly. They fly routes that lose huge amounts of money. Their corporate culture is take-take-take. Givebacks to their employees are considered "not possible". The company, due to its lack of reliability is a terrible Skyteam partner (as is AF).

Eastern bit the dust. So did PanAm and Braniff. Sabena was a flag carrier that died. Why not Alitalia?



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16872 times:

Perhaps Gordon Bethune could take over!

Wouldn't that be something!



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16691 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
Perhaps we should rename this thread to "The Never Ending 'Alitalia On The Verge of Collapse' Thread

 checkmark 

If only Meridiana, and Air Dolomiti were long haul...  wink 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
Statistics show that transatlantic capacity from Italy is up

 checkmark 

Ask Delta, American, Eurofly, Continental, and US Airways!

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 15):
Theres also talk of BA being AZ's new partner

??? That is an interesting move.. British Airways, is profitable, and without problems???

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 14):
Analysts say that unions refuse to talk directly with management

UNIONS... Death of anything..

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 14):
Prime Minister Romano Prodi

Prodi... Lets trade him out with Bossi


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17335 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16641 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 1):
2. AF-KL will take it over.

They wouldn't touch that stinking pile with a ten foot pole.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
Let this thing die, already.

Exactly. There is no way to "fix" this other than starting over.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16565 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 1):
2 Options:

1. Government will pump in money
2. AF-KL will take it over.

they won't go...

I doubt it. Seriously, there isn't enough money the italian government can pump in to render Alitalia profitable. The airline is so defunct that the possibility of it going out of the hole is as likely as me going to the moon. Seriously, not happening! AF-KLM would be stupid to save the airline because there isn't any benefit. All the routes served by Alitalia are served in one way or the other by either AF, KLM, or the other members of the Sky Team Alliance. Let's just say I won't lose sleep over Alitalia being grounded.

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 11):
No offence, but Alitalia is just a joke, honestly.

YUP! A joke! When there isn't a will from anyone to see the airline survive, how can it? The employees, the investors, and most importantly, the passengers have all lost faith in Alitalia.


25 Nycfly75 : My proposal (obviously a rough summary): -Shut AZ down for one month (1/15-2/15) -Fire Everyone and I mean Everyone, especially the Route Planner -Hir
26 Ushermittwoch : Hardly a good idea if you consider where the main economic force in Italy is located...
27 Nycfly75 : True point, but if you look at history, AZ's big problems really started when they started dual hubs in 1998 with an emphasis on MXP. There were othe
28 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Good way to start WWIII Union!!! Non-Union, in Italy?? You are aware that the money to be made in the Italian market is Milan! Arent you?
29 JJJ : I take it you're from Rome/South, right? MXP makes more sense to me as an international hub, for one, Milan (and environs) has a bigger economic weig
30 Nycfly75 : Now is a good time as any isnt it??? If an AZ employee is given an option, Non union= $$$$$ Union = Dont Eat, Im sure they would choose the nonunion
31 Iberia340600 : Although that would be great...realistically speaking, thats not going to happen. Unions are still quite strong in Europe..accross most of the public
32 Nycfly75 : Family is from Bari, in the south. Basically what I am calling for is better route planning/harmonization. By default all Intl routes should be to FC
33 LTU932 : So, if Italy could privatise a company and allowing it to become the huge success you mention, then why hasn't the government listened to reason all
34 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Do you have any idea as to how imbedded Unions are in European and Italian labour? My guess would be Sicilia, Campania, or that other place.. Calabri
35 Kanebear : Another day, another Alitalia shutdown threat... they've been falling over for, what, five years now??? Longest, slowest, most painful drawn out death
36 Post contains images Nycfly75 : Patterns seems to repeat on even years
37 Bicoastal : I'll believe that when I see it. Enforcement of this "rule" will be delayed until it's forgotten. Too bad, though.
38 QFSYD744 : Since 1997.... Almost 9 years on now.... Ave Maria!
39 Ikramerica : So since AZ is profitable when flying, then obviously the answer is to stop LANDING!!!
40 Beaucaire : I'd like to come back on the potential of Rome versus Mila... Quote of a report dealing with Fiumicino from 2004.. "According to ACI Europe data for 2
41 Post contains images PHKLM : You say it yourself: MXP yields are better, so that's where the money is. Even the Romans shifted their hub away from FCO (to IST in that case), so l
42 Post contains images Ikarus2006 : QFSYD744, I think we should keep the politicians out of this discussion especially because if Italy would follow your advise > "Prodi... Lets trade hi
43 Post contains images Kevin777 : Maybe, but at the end of the day tourists don't make the bottom line black.. Kevin777
44 Post contains links Beaucaire : Apparently some Alitalia-trade-union members are losing their brains.. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2396173,00.html
45 LTU932 : " target=_blank>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article....html What scares me more is that this has already happened once according to the article. Don'
46 Post contains images Sflaflight : Do you know anything about Italy? This is what Italy is about. I hate to say it because I myself am Italian (passport and all) but Even if you hire a
47 Nycfly75 : Yes I do, In fact I work for an Italian company. My statement is more of what should happen that what will happen. I think you need a movement in Ita
48 ThePRGuy : OH dear oh dear. Although I doubt they will dissapear off our radar, me and my mate Robert are going to book asap as we have €250 in courtesy vouche
49 Mika : Bad working conditions and salary for your employees will only get you so far, especially in a field where most of your employees have a direct custo
50 SQ773 : Same old history every once in a while, and nothing new, that´s to say, the italian tax payers will continue to maintain that Disaster and the rest o
51 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Well, not all of Europe. Look at the UK and Germany for examples of competition. Even Spain more recently has made good progress. Italy is a pretty u
52 Skyman : I think AZA will be gone as soon as DLH starts it Italian low cost carrier Italienwings. AZA will have nothing to hold against them with Europewide de
53 Beaucaire : I disagree - a potential Italianwings from LH would focus on European destinations exclusively ,while Alitalia is -(and will remain) a worldwide oper
54 QFSYD744 : Mate, it was a bloody joke... Nice prod at the top tier income winners in Italy... Why is that? Personal opinion, or fact? Rome has seasonal demand,
55 Piercey : and if it is, they need their head checked... violate anti-competition agreement with CO. Either way, AZ is on it's deathbed. The only way it will su
56 LTU932 : What the hell is that supposed to mean?
57 Nycfly75 : Certain Americans and Australians all of the sudden are becoming armchair Italian and European Experts all while insulting Southern Italians (many wh
58 Nycfly75 : In 2005 total pax number MXP+LIN+BGY 33.075.264 FCO+CIA 32.878.455 You should also consider that 38% of MXP traffic isn't local originated traffic (M
59 Nycfly75 : ..and that wasnt insulting to Soutern Italians?? Please. Do us all a favour and keep your biases to yourself. For good or bad Italy has survived many
60 QFSYD744 : Malpensa Aer Lingus Aeroflot Air Alps airBaltic Air China Air Europa Air France Air Madrid Air Madagascar Air Malta Air Mauritius Air Senegal Interna
61 Post contains images QFSYD744 : What company??? Alitalia...
62 Nycfly75 : Wrong, try again...btw you sound an awful lot like MalpensaSFO.
63 Alitalia744 : Actually he's not. But nice try. Also - lets not get into biases in this thread be it whether you hate or love Alitalia, or have family from the Nort
64 Post contains links LIPZ : Wikipedia is not the best source you can find on the web. A lot of them indicated don't operate at MXP, and others only as charter services. Look at
65 QFSYD744 : Alitalia 744, Sorry mate if I have offended you. No harm was meant to you or anyone else in this forum. The problem that I have and that seems to be
66 Laxatljfkcvg : alitila is not a german airline,so why would they tell us?
67 QFSYD744 : Because the Italian news is to busy talking about the problems within the government! In addition RAI was headed by Berlusconi, who preceeded Prodi.
68 Piercey : Whoa, calm down, man did I scre the pooch on that one by not explaining it... I was talking about the fact that the (IIRC) fourth and fith largest ai
69 QFSYD744 : It is a well known fact that Lufthansas strongest market outside of Germany is Italy.
70 Piercey : Well then why didn't the idiots realize that before throwing me in the fire...
71 PDXflyer31 : Just flew AZ in and out of MXP last month, gotta say that their transatlantic service wasn't too bad. I had low expectations but was pleasantly surpri
72 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Most of them dont know that... Why, that is as good a question for you as it is for me..
73 YULWinterSkies : Perhaps true for AZ. however, if you remove AF from SkyTeam, there is virtually no SkyTeam in Europe! Can you explain me how AF is unreliable? Althou
74 Halls120 : My Father's side of the family came over to the US in the mid 19th century from Germany. I've never heard a relative call themselves a "German-Americ
75 LTBEWR : This isn't news. It will be news when they actually do collapse, shut down and all their workers are on the unemployment line, like with Varig several
76 Jetdeltamsy : While the practice has waned in recent years, Air France workers used to strike more than any other airline in Europe. They were a terrible company t
77 Sflaflight : Amen! But that movement will be tough as Italy's population keeps on ageing. Unfortunately, it seems that that culture affects AZ more than just at h
78 MTYFREAK : Italians I would imagine...
79 Mika : Power to the people, that´s all i can say. You should know your rights and fight for them if you´re not happy with your situation. No one else will
80 Post contains links N174UA : This is the Italian way of thinking. Stop-gap, short term solutions are always the norm, as evidenced by looking at the state of Italy's public finan
81 N174UA : I think it was in an article called "Flights of Fantasy" from Oct. 2005. As part of AZ's restructuring, they spun off ground services to Alitalia Ser
82 BAtriple7 : While the rest of your post is informative this statement is blatantly offensive. Back on topic, isn't the problem partly that AZ's top managers are
83 Wingedarrow : As usual, the discussion turns to more personal matters... Anyway, having spent 3 years of my life with Alitalia I can certainly say that they have a
84 Beaucaire : Very good post,Wingedarrow - I do agree 100% ! It seems the very moment one speaks about Italy,inevitably the North-South story comes up (like in Belg
85 ComeAndGo : It's not leadership. It's politics and unions only. All Roads lead to Rome as long as the Communists are in power. Alitalia was able to downsize it's
86 BAtriple7 : Politics and unions yes. But it's not just the Communists - the Italian political elite tends to be Rome-centric, which is what annoys business in th
87 Cobra27 : If the situation was so serious, the news wouldn't be on the channel i never heard about.
88 Skyman : It is the German CNN. That is true but AZA will not be able to cope the loss on the European market and live only from their long haul destinations.
89 Beaucaire : Italians are more pragmatic than some people think-if AZ will be rebuilt under a new structure and name,Italians will support the new airline since t
90 Sflaflight : And again, this thread is doing nothing more than mimic italian culture. Doesn't anybody get it yet? Just go to an Italian cafe and see what happens
91 QFSYD744 : Tell me about it mate.. First question out of my relatives mouths are "What part of Italy are you from". In Italy you not only need to be from a cert
92 BAW716 : Forgive me for being blunt; however, having worked for Alitalia and given a significant amount of sweat, blood and work to make the San Francisco oper
93 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Fully agreed, let now be the time for the Emirates or British Airways buy in. Get the political hands off of it. Go forward from there.
94 Post contains images MEACEDAR : I can't wait till Alitalia is out of the airline industry. There are soooo BAD. I was flying out of BEY to MCO connected in MXP and JFK. I tell you, i
95 Post contains images ZRHnerd : You forgot to mention Swissair!!
96 N174UA : I don't see other Italians in the thread lashing out at me....so I guess that leaves you as the only one offended. Wasn't my intent. Plus...the evide
97 Post contains images QFSYD744 : There is an ongoing joke in Italy that the people in the Piemonte watch TV5(France), Lombardia/Emilia-Romagna watch BBC (Great Britain), Veneto/Friul
98 BAW716 : QFSYD744 While I agree the situation at Alitalia is dire, I don't believe it is beyond repair. Having said that, there isn't much time. I have some ve
99 Commavia : It's beyond repair. There is no fixing it. It is completely and totally gone. However, as history has proven quite conclusively, that doesn't mean Al
100 BAW716 : Commavia, You may very well be right...but I'm the eternal optimist and hopeless romantic. Maybe someone will have the fortitude to do the right thing
101 Post contains images BAtriple7 : That's not nationalism. Nationalism is thinking that your country/nation is superior to all others in most, if not all, things. What was offensive ab
102 FlyTPA : A few years ago I flew from Rome to Ancona on an Alitalia ATR. On an aircraft that size in the US, there would typically be 2 flight attendants on boa
103 Commavia : Indeed. Until the Alitalia unions are completely and totally taken out of the equation, Alitalia will never get fixed. The unions and the politicans
104 Sflaflight : Bingo FlyTPA and Commavia! I know many people bash us for talking that way, but you guys hit the nail on the head. I love how people turn around and
105 WorldTraveler : That type of culture exists in alot of places in the world and is great. It's a reflection of a culture that focuses more on people than on money. Pro
106 Scotron11 : Problem is that Italy is in the EU which has very high standards of living. Italy can't have the culture of Latin America and Africa but the standard
107 Alessandro : I think the Italian government want it to stay in case of emergency like boxing day 2004. Otherwise no reason to keep Alitalia going.
108 Post contains images Art : If the management did come up with a real plan, that would be grounds for a strike, too, wouldn't it? What's offensive here? It sounds like a valid o
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