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Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?  
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6108 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

Air China are planning to start twice weekly service Beijing-Madrid-Sao Paulo with a 767-300ER around mid December, any one know of this?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7382 times:

The sad thing is that this route doesnt have the legs to stand on. Air China, has a very low level of service, lower than Alitalia and Olympic if one remembers correctly. In addition Air China, is going to fight with Iberia on MAD-GRU? That is suicide. This route wont last long!

User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7362 times:
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First notice that I have, 777way.

Maybe will be a mistake. See the code-share flights with LH. The CA flights are always empty meanwhile the LH flights are full.

CA offers a net rate from Spain to China in Business rate from 1500.00 Euros (one way and return). LH offers this rate from 3200.00 Euros.

Will be a great idea to code-share its flights with UX that is flying with 330 twice a week and now that the spanish airline will start flights to GIG.

Mmmmmhhhh. No way to this plan.

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineWunderk From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7171 times:

This reminds me of Air China briefly tried Hong Kong-London in the late 1990s. Competing against Cathay Pacific, British Airways and Virgin. What was Air China thinking?

User currently offlineKesflyer From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7147 times:

Rumour I have heard here and there is a new flight to ATH.

Apparently politicians from China and Greece have been trying to negotiate such a flight.

Let us wait and see !


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7127 times:

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 4):
Rumour I have heard here and there is a new flight to ATH.

Apparently politicians from China and Greece have been trying to negotiate such a flight.

The other rumour was OA commencing ATH-HKG. Is this still on the cards??
Given the CX/CA/KA grouping, I think CA is better off working within these, and perhaps codesharing on the OA metal over HKG.


User currently offlineCY319 From Cyprus, joined Apr 2006, 396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7120 times:

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 4):
Rumour I have heard here and there is a new flight to ATH.

correct!

Greece and China signed a bilateral not longtime ago. this agreement concerns the air link of ATH with PEK and HKG.
OA is the designated carrier for the ATH-HKG route while CA is the one for the ATH-PEK route.
in fact, OA will launce the ATH-HKG route in late October: 3 times a week with 343s. OA has further code-sharing agreements with KA for the Chinese destinations and with CX for other Far Eastern cities.



wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7072 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 777way (Thread starter):
Air China are planning to start twice weekly service Beijing-Madrid-Sao Paulo with a 767-300ER around mid December, any one know of this?

No request has been made to ANAC yet and no one announcement on Brazil. Considering the bilateral, it's a possible flight. But in the past they flew Beijing-Frankfurt / Frankfurt-Sao Paulo or Frankfurt-GIG using RG flights.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePEK18R36L From China, joined Dec 2005, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7015 times:

Quoting Wunderk (Reply 3):
This reminds me of Air China briefly tried Hong Kong-London in the late 1990s. Competing against Cathay Pacific, British Airways and Virgin. What was Air China thinking?

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As the national carrier of a nation focused on its own face and global influence, Air China frequently becomes a tool of politics.

The rationale behind the HKG-LHR flight was, I understand, a matter of face, a stake in the ground. It was a way of saying "hey, look, this (Hong Kong) is OURS now, and so our national carrier can fly from Hong Kong to anyplace." If you will recall, this was also a period of time where CA became quite deeply vested in HKG, and thought it would be interesting to see if they could build a niche in that already crowded route - possibly with lower fares than CX, BA, and VS. Once that niche failed to materialize, the gentlemen running CA could go to the Mandarins, hat in hand, and say "sirs, we are sorry, but that route appears to be too competitive, and we really need the planes elsewhere." The state leadership will assent to a record of losses, but they'll never believe a study in advance.

The Madrid and Sao Paulo routes, if true, are likely driven significantly by political pressure from the MFA. There is a big push from a foreign policy standpoint to strengthen ties with Russia, India, and Brazil, and a Sao Paulo flight would play right into that. CA may also see an opportunity with Varig's apparent implosion, but I think international relations is the real pusher.

The Madrid routing of the flight mystifies me a bit, until you start talking with travel agents, who are saying that there is a growing demand among the newly prosperous Chinese for direct frequencies to countries on the north side of the Med so as to make trips of 4-7 days to those destinations more logistically viable. This would also make the ATH flight more understandable.

David



In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
User currently offlineCarnoc From China, joined Oct 2001, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6869 times:

Confirmed news...

Effective from December 10, 2006, Air China will fly between Beijing and Sao Paulo via Madrid twice a week with the new services to be operated by a Boeing 767 aircraft.

Full schedule details available at http://en.carnoc.com/list/1/1197.html

Regards.


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Nice news, specially if CA can keep this new route for years.


Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6802 times:

Well i was searching for something new to add to my list of Airlines on that route.I guess my next trip to South America will be onboard CA B767 to GRU than Gol to EZE
10x for the news
Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6681 times:

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 1):
The sad thing is that this route doesnt have the legs to stand on. Air China, has a very low level of service, lower than Alitalia and Olympic if one remembers correctly. In addition Air China, is going to fight with Iberia on MAD-GRU? That is suicide. This route wont last long!

Well, you'll have to take the Chinese tourist into account. So what if CA couldn't pick up pax at MAD (not even sure if they are allowed to)? There will be plenty of Chinese who are interested to go sight-seeing in Rio or to do business in Sao Paulo. The Chinese airlines are profittable on their China-European routes. Would you think the profits came from pax originated in Europe? Think not.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 10):
Nice news, specially if CA can keep this new route for years

I am sure, I even see the flights in sooner future going daily

regards



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineCarnoc From China, joined Oct 2001, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

The aircraft type will be Boeing 767-300ERs for those interested...

Regards.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6376 times:

Quoting B2443 (Reply 12):
So what if CA couldn't pick up pax at MAD (not even sure if they are allowed to)? There will be plenty of Chinese who are interested to go sight-seeing in Rio or to do business in Sao Paulo.

Does anyone know if CA have 5th freedom between MAD and GRU?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6243 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Humberside (Reply 15):
Does anyone know if CA have 5th freedom between MAD and GRU?

As per the bilateral Brazil-China, yes they will receive 5th freedom rights. They can also improve this to 14 weekly flights.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5918 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 13):
I am sure, I even see the flights in sooner future going daily

I like your optimism, but I'm not pretty sure to say such thing. Well, we wait and see. If LipeGIG is right with the 5th freedom rights (Spain has something to say about it, anyway) It could help.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
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