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Plane Crashes Into Building In NYC  
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28795 times:

CNN reporting that a small plane has crashed into a building on the upper east side of Manhattan. No other info at this moment.


273 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28823 times:

It's at 72nd and York. Fox and MSNBC are reporting it's a helicopter. The fire is pretty small...maybe 4 or 5 apartments.


User currently offlineORDPIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28812 times:

CNBC is reporting that there is no sign of terrorism at this point.

Concorde 146 727 737 73G 742 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 300 319 320 321 343 346 CRJ ERJ ATR ATP CL604 LJ45 LJ60 BD700
User currently offlineKaukau From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28738 times:

Near 51st street and York Ave. Overcast. Rain and T-storms forecast. Moderate sized fire in the building resulted. Near a heli-pad. Might be a helicopter.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28743 times:

My guess is that it was a medical helicopter. There are a number of hospitals not far away.

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28751 times:

Helicopter Crashes Into NYC Highrise (by 71Zulu Oct 11 2006 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28744 times:

Seems like it might be a helicopter....


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28651 times:

FAA saying it's a SMALL PLANE now....


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28518 times:

Seems that the aircraft impacted somewhere on the 10th floor, about halfway up the building. CNN reports that the ceiling in NYC is at 1800 ft., well above the level of the building. Clear air below. Structure is on fire both on the 10th floor and on the ground.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1966 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28543 times:

WABC also saying small plane. Fire on 41st floor. Its near the Hospital for Special surgery

from 7online.com

[Edited 2006-10-11 21:11:55]

The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineKiwelumo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28305 times:

The building is located on 524 East 72nd Street. The crash affected parts of the 44th and 45th floors. The general belief is that this is a Helicopter crash. There is a Heliport - JRB, on East 34th Street alongside the East River. Which is near to the crash site.

User currently offlineIndio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28303 times:

Quoting Kaukau (Reply 3):
Near 51st street and York Ave. Overcast. Rain and T-storms forecast. Moderate sized fire in the building resulted. Near a heli-pad. Might be a helicopter

72nd and York. I live on 51 and it does not intersect York.

User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28305 times:


What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28338 times:

It's the red-brown "pyramid top" building in this photo. It's on East 72nd between East River Road and York Ave. The aircraft struck the northeast side of the building.


User currently offlineKazzie From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 1684 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28239 times:

Just seen this on the news...

From the live pictures, the fire seems intense, but only in about 4/5 windows maybe?, black smoke so still burning on fuel? (correct me if I'm wrong)

Bazinga punk.
User currently offlineKiwelumo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28166 times:

An eye witness claims seeing a fixed wing white plane with 4 windows. The fire is now substantial. And the plane struck the 20th floor and not the 44th.

User currently offlineKazzie From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 1684 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28168 times:

And I booked flights to go to NY only 24 hours ago!


Bazinga punk.
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 4029 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28070 times:

CNN saying the plane wasn't in contact with ATC because it didn't need to be in contact with anyone flying under VFR.

Huh? What class of airspace is the Upper East Side of Manhattan covered by?  


[Edited 2006-10-11 21:26:02]

Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineKiwelumo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27959 times:

CNN is reporting that the fire is now under control. No evidence of Terrorism. Just a tragic accident.

User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Austria, joined Mar 2004, 3304 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27899 times:

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 16):
And I booked flights to go to NY only 24 hours ago!

I don't think this will affect your travel...


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3786 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27898 times:

NORAD has scrambled combat air patrols over several US cities.

Sounds like an over-reaction.

"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27898 times:

NORAD now dispatching fighther jets over "numerous cities." Per- CNN.


User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27777 times:

I'm seeing this on the news right now...people are probably freaking out about something thats probably not as big as the news makes it seem.

MSNBC Reporter: "People seem panicked near the scene, talking of two different types of plane crashes. Witnesses say they saw loud explosions"

Two planes? Really? Now people can't tell whether its a helicopter or a small prop plane, is it really that hard to tell the difference???

Prepare for take-off.
User currently offlineNycfuturepilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27777 times:

Wonder what happened- not allowed to fly on that side of manhattan without specific ATC clearance.

Father, Son, HOYA spirit
User currently offlineLVISA From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27775 times:
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I work on 42nd and 1st Ave. overlooking the street; the sirens are still going... Just like it was on 9/11. It brought me back to that freaking day.

Listening to 1010 news they just reported that it was a "small commuter airplane" and that the fire is out.

The station also reports that "...at this time there are no reports of injuries..." nor do they know how many people were on the aircraft.

25 Solarix : I can confirm the CAP is active over the LA metro area as I am listening to BIGFOOT and MAGIC flights as we speak. They were up very quickly.
26 UAL747 : FAA has confirmed it is a multi-engined fixed wing aircraft. UAL
27 Post contains images Kazzie : Oh I know Just a weird feeling I booked to go there and then this happens... Hopfully the fire will be put out soon!
28 YHMYYZspotter : Are you being serious?
29 N844AA : I can't think of a another context in which I'd more rather be safe than sorry.
30 VEEREF : Actually you can up to a certain point. Of course not after this, I would guess.
31 N766UA : According to CNN NORAD has scambled fighters for CAPs over multiple cities, just as a precaution. This brings back fond memories... glad we're not di
32 DeltaRules : What point is that? From the surface to the floor of Class B? DeltaRules
33 Indio66 : Having lived through 9/11, I can tell you that this "over reaction" is most welcomed.
34 Post contains links and images JoeKuboj : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
35 UN_B732 : I really hope this isn't a Beech 1900 or other small passenger airplane. -mr. X
36 Petazulu : The only plane I ever see going up and down the east river is a seaplane that takes off from around 34th and the East River. It's quite infrequent. Al
37 N844AA : Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. Again, I'd much rather be safe than sorry in this situation. What would people be sa
38 Dw747400 : I have a feeling that the current policy is to launch as soon as the first word comes in that a plane has hit a building, not wait a minute or two un
39 Indio66 : I have seen that plane as well and it does come in low. I would not be surprised to find that it was the one that crashed.
40 Nkops : The NORAD response is interesting... while I'm glad they are on the ball, I find it hard to believe that they would scramble because something of Cess
41 Iberia340600 : CNN reporting 1 fatality at this point.
42 Post contains images Solarix : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia What do you expect we do? I am glad knowing we aren't sitting around twiddling our thumbs when s
43 Indio66 : Its entirely possible that a group of terrorists rented small planes and is commencing an attack. Is it likely? No. Should we take precautions? Absol
44 Pawsleykat : The FBI have now realesed a statement to the BBC saying that this is not terrorist related. Lastest pics show that the fire is still blazing. (Watchin
45 Solarix : Has anyone confirmed what type of plane it was?
46 Mika : Who really cares about if fighter jets were scrambled or not, i for one am more interested in knowing more what type of plane this was and how many pe
47 N766UA : Paranoia: A tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness. NORAD's response is neither excessive or irr
48 Nkops : Confirmed 2 dead.... probably from the airplane!! True. Anything is possible nowadays!! Next, it'll be blimps!!
49 BigOrange : 7online.com is now saying it was "a fixed wing aircraft operating in an exclusion zone." Why the hell did no-one get to it??
50 QFSYD744 : It took the FAA/DOT years to come to a final conclusion on TWA 800 Now within an hour the FBI washes their hands of terrorism To quick to judge
51 Nkops : nothing yet... they have said everything from a helicopter to a twin engine GA..
52 N766UA : He was in an area that is perfectly acceptable for VFR flight. I don't know what an "exclusion zone" constitutes, but he was outside of controlled ai
53 Post contains links SK A330-300 : I guess it is this plane you can see on http://www4.passur.com/lga.html if you look at approximately 14.41. There you will see a plane flying along Ea
54 Indio66 : The Federal Aviation Administration described the plane as a "general aviation" fixed-wing aircraft flying under visual flight rules, meaning a pilot
55 Doug_Or : ??? who get to what?
56 Pawsleykat : Btw, where did the plane originate from?? I heard something about LGA but I am not sure if that was where it came from. Any help appreciated. JG
57 Nkops : I don't think small GA would be from LGA, would it??
58 QFSYD744 : They dont know what kind of craft it was, but the FBI makes a statement about it not being terrorism? Odd.. That is insane, mates, the terrorists in
59 Law4fun : FWIW, ABC News is saying that the 2 deaths were from "falling debris"...
60 Doug_Or : You see piston twins in and out of there every once in a while, but I doubt thats where the plane came from.
61 N766UA : Good find with the passeur site. It looks normal enough, he's just flying up the east river until he makes a left turn and crashes. There's nothing un
62 Laddb : Good catch. I tried finding it, but did not know where to look since I don't know NYC. Have you worked it back to see where it left from? How long be
63 BAPILOT2B : If you look at 14:12 there is an aircraft (in blue) the direct opposite to where the accident has happened, it is circling and has the following info
64 Boeing727flyer : It is a helicopter I have been told.
65 N766UA : Everyone from CNN to the FAA says fixed wing. We're quite sure it wasn't a helo at this point.
66 2H4 : You're assuming the FBI has no more information on the accident than we do. 2H4
67 Pawsleykat : Fire is now completely out!!! At least 5 or 6 windows blackened and no glass. The fire has not spead that far from what appears to be the imact zone!
68 Flyinryan99 : Looking at where this crashed and the proximity to LGA....isn't that in LGA's airspace? If not then what's the airspace look like around there?
69 SJCRRPAX : Strange. 10-11-6 is 9-11-01 upside down.
70 Boeing727flyer : It is a helicopter I have been told.
71 PanAm92 : News reports say it was a sightseeing plane out of Teterboro airport.
72 DeltaRules : CBS2 coverage being shown in the background on CNN's "Situation Room" says that the plane took off from Teterboro. DeltaRules
73 Post contains images QFSYD744 : Sightseeing from a high profile private aircraft complex??? and today is 10-11 Unfortunately you have been told wrong..
74 BOE773 : Shall I remain grounded and not fly my 185 today !!
75 Post contains links BoeingOnFinal : Took a pic of it, heres the link: Pic of manhatten 14:41 local You can see the plane in red, and I highlighted it, so the info on the right is that ai
76 AirTranTUS : They always do, to calm people down.
77 Pawsleykat : How far from Manhattan is Teterboro?? JG
78 2H4 : No! Go fly it for those of us who dream of owning such a cool airplane! 2H4
79 PlanesNTrains : Exactly. They may have already figured out where it came from and talked to a few people on the ground at that airport, giving them at least a prelim
80 QFSYD744 : Across the water, not more than a 5 minute trek. There are now reports that 4 people are confirmed dead. One of which was strapped to a seat from onb
81 2H4 : Right. For all we know, there could have been radio communication from the aircraft before it crashed, or eyewitness confirmation of the flightpath a
82 Post contains images Pawsleykat : Thanks, I have never heard of Teterboro before now. Thanks JG
83 Gib : CNBC now reporting the a/c was an SR-20.
84 Post contains links AsstChiefMark : I found it on Passur. Go to http://www4.passur.com/jfk.html . Set the time to 13:04. Select 20 mile range and Start. He's a westbound general aviation
85 Bond007 : ....and this tells us it wasn't terrorism??? IMO from what I've heard it isn't....but flightpaths and ATC communication tell you nothing. So he sent
86 Post contains links BoeingOnFinal : I took some more pictures, it is wierd though. Seems to be going so smooth, suddenly the turn. And it says 600 feet, that can't be right? Maybe I'm lo
87 YWG : CNN has never ceased to amaze me on the topic of aviation. "The pilot was under what's called Visual Flght Rules, VFR. In this way he would not have h
88 Levg79 : Just a couple of miles east, not far at all. Leo.
89 AirTranTUS : AsstChiefMark, are you sure its not the one talked about here?
90 Dreamflight767 : Can't be this a/c (CJC4832). If you look at flighaware, this flight was succusfully completed. A/C landed in LBB @ 14:08EST.
91 Indio66 : The news is reporting the plane is out of teterboro.
92 Post contains links Call911mfc : Flightaware shows it as landing at LGA. Not sure how accurate it is: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CJC4832
93 SeeTheWorld : A complete and utter over-reaction ... I'm sick and tired of the "better safe than sorry" comment. If that were true, no one would drive or go outsid
94 Post contains links and images JFKTOWERFAN : NBC4 in NYC as just decided to display this photo...I'm sure the have full consent from Julian View Large View MediumPhoto © Julian Whitelaw Core
95 Post contains images RIHNOSAUR : I would rather say " reflected" about its end (after the 6) rather than upside down....
96 AsstChiefMark : Passur's times are local times. The news channels' breaking news coverage came on at 13:11 EDT. Wouldn't 14:41 be about 90 minutes after the crash ti
97 KBFIspotter : Fox News is reporting the A/C was a Cirrus SR-20. I had to turn the news off because I could not stand listening to the idiots who are reporting on th
98 United777 : CNN just reported there was a may day call made by the pilot due to a fuel problem right before the crash.
99 Indio66 : Reporting that its a ciris airplane, registerred to Cory Lightle, a pitcher for the Yankees.
100 AirTranTUS : I had no idea when it happened, but now seeing the times, you are right. The other one must be a news chopper. If the crash was at 1, then it was on
101 JFKTOWERFAN : NBC4 says it was N929CD. Corey
102 Post contains images Pawsleykat : That is really freaky actually. But very well done to finding it Mark JG
103 SeeTheWorld : I think precautions are one thing, but you have to look at the facts and decide whether it warrants NORAD scrambling jets. First of all, the visibili
104 2H4 : Well, if this is true, it would appear so: 2H4
105 Willyj : Could he have been aboard? Any confirmations?
106 Kappel : That's standard nowadays, even in events that are clearly accidents.
107 YWG : N-number : N929CD Aircraft Serial Number : 1230 Aircraft Manufacturer : CIRRUS DESIGN CORP Model : SR20 Engine Manufacturer : LYCOMING Model : I0-360-
108 Post contains images Mir : They had Bo Dietl on (legendary sensationalist idiot) and he was saying how the "unrestricted" airspace (uncontrolled actually) had to go away. Like
109 Starlionblue : CNN is saying a Cirrus 120, "which has a parachute". They also say N929CD, but this is unconfirmed according to CNN. The dialogue is excruciating on C
110 United777 : Word is coming out the pilot might be a pitcher of the NY Yankees. Cory Lidle.[Edited 2006-10-11 22:46:48]
111 Post contains links BoeingOnFinal : That is much more likely to be it. The transponder just goes wild right before loosing altitude. It dropped right down to 500, then it went up to 250
112 Post contains links Nkops : This isn't it.. this is a sked flight on Colgan http://www.usairways.com/awa/flightinformation/FlightStatus.aspx
113 Post contains links N670UW : Wow. CNN is reporting the pilot was Cory Lidle, pitcher for the Yankees. http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASAp...b/team/player.jsp?player_id=117756
114 Indio66 : Spelling correction: Cory Lidle. He certainly could be on the plane. This will remind longtime Yankee fans of the Thurman Munson crash 30 years ago.
115 Post contains links Starlionblue : Data on N929CD: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N929CD.html Aircraft (FAA) Manufacturer: Cirrus Design Corp Model: SR20 Search all Cirrus Design
116 Mir : Which is great at getting the plane safely to the ground. Softly, and while avoiding big buildings....not so much. -Mir
117 Indio66 : News is confirming that Cory was on the plane. RIP.
118 Post contains images Starlionblue : Indeed. Also very low at that stage. Just you wait. We're going to see GA pilots vilified more in the next few days.
119 Airfoilsguy : CNN says that a NY Yankes pitcher was the pilot. A Cory something
120 AirTranTUS : This is not official, but someone has already updated Wikipedia to show his "death"!
121 Boeing727flyer : Looks like it is registered to Cory Lidle the New York Yankees pitcher...Wierd?
122 Post contains images Mir :   RIP to him. Yeah, we are. And as a GA pilot, it pisses me off to no end.    I've flown in the Hudson corridor before - it's one of the best flig
123 ONTFlyer : Wow, Corey Lidle grew up 5 minutes from me. So sad.
124 Starlionblue : Ironically, the plane on the Wikipedia page is not a Cirrus. They just found his passport on the street.
125 Iberia340600 : CNN now saying that Cory Lidle most likely is the pilot...not confirmed...but his passport was found on the street near the wreckage.
126 Post contains links Nkops : Here is ESPN.com link http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860 This is really sad!!
127 AsstChiefMark : Looks like he took off from FRG at 12:58. Mark
128 GoBlue : Now confirmed by Joe Torre, Pilot was Cory Lidle, and he is now deceased. SAD SAD news!
129 Post contains links Manny : I have not read the this thread so i do not know if anyone has discussed this. Last month there was an article in New York Times about Corey Lidle and
130 BOE773 : Cory, even though I didn't know you 'buddy', my thoughts and prayers will be for ya when I fly into another western sunset. Hopefully I'l see you up y
131 Mir : Link doesn't work. I have heard things about people flying Cirruses who aren't really qualified to - they think that just because it has a parachute
132 KELPkid : If Cory did indeed have time to make a "mayday" call, wonder why he didn't pop the BRS chute...I'd rather take my chances with getting the chute snagg
133 Starlionblue : Well, that is an idealized scenario but quite plausible. The parachute is an extra safety feature. However if should not be seen as a replacement for
134 Neilalp : do you have a site you know that from. I checked flightaware and have seen nothing that has given any clues.
135 Mir : It's possible he thought he could make the East River (if he was flying from west to east, which would go along with CNNs reports that he took off fr
136 KELPkid : Not true. Cirruses are racking up fatal accidents at a higher rate than the rest of the GA fleet... The Cessna 182 still has the best safety record (
137 Mir : Flightaware doesn't track VFR flights, which this was. -Mir
138 Starlionblue : Indeed. The problem with aircraft (and cars) is that no matter how safe you make the vehicle, the monkey at the controls is by far the highest risk f
139 2H4 : Do you have a source? 2H4
140 Post contains links Manny : Reposting the link again. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/sp...i=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
141 Mir : Or you could look at it as: "Is the plane safe? Yes. Is the pilot safe? Good question." -Mir
142 KELPkid : Richard L. Collins' air safety article in Flying Magazine. I should make a clarification here, the fatal accident rate is exceeding the fleetwide typ
143 United787 : I heard some witness on CNN saying that the plane was zig-zagging down which made him think it was a helicopter. Maybe it is possible that the parachu
144 AsstChiefMark : My reply #89 and subsequent related replies were completely wrong. I apologize. I made a stupid, silly math error. Mark
145 Flyinryan99 : That's what happens when you are putting low time pilots in these powerful complex airplanes. Look for this to possibly happen with VLJs.
146 Manny : In this case it is sadly so true. Well, that not my opinion, I was just summing up the article in NY Times.
147 Mir : Works now. Chilling article. -Mir
148 AirTranTUS : Especially if you can buy them at Sam's Club.
149 OPNLguy : Posted this in the other thread, but in case anyone was wondering about the weather.... Here's what they were at TEB, EWR, LGA, and JFK for the last 6
150 Mir : NY Times article says that he earned his license last off-season, which would mean he'd had it for about a year. However, it's hard to imagine that h
151 JBirdAV8r : Or perhaps he yanked the CAPS handle. The Cirrus documentation is pretty clear that you have to make a smooth, continuous motion of...what is it...75
152 DTW757 : Cory Lidle had an private pilot airplane single engine land rating issued 02/09/2006
153 Ikramerica : Here's my take on why they do it. You have to run drills anyway. You have to scramble the jets once in a while to keep the pilots and staff on their
154 KELPkid : Indeed. Only one of the ASOS/AWOS observations had visibility above Marginal VFR minumums...looks like he would have needed a Special VFR clearance t
155 JetBlueGuy2006 : My thoughts are with his friends and family, R.I.P Corey.
156 OPNLguy : With TEB at 9 feet and EWR at 18 feet, I'd think it was more associated with the rainshowers perhaps....
157 Post contains links Highflier92660 : A general aviation aircraft albeit a single-engine prop, a member of the New York Yankees; this eerily brings back memories from another decade. For a
158 KELPkid : " target=_blank>http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto....html On a more positive note, I've read lots of good articles in GA flying magazines (AOPA Pil
159 Thepilot : Hey guys, I was at the MET Art Museum today at around noon, and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. However, I went spotting at LGA and noticed
160 Wjcandee : The building in question is next door to me. In the photo in Reply 13, I'm the black glass building at the upper left corner. The plane impacted the f
161 Post contains links and images Jpax : Took this off of my NY Sectional..excuse the crappy Photoshopping   Red dot represents 72nd and York, brightened areas are the Bravo floors and ceili
162 RIXrat : According to WABC there were no rain showers in the Manhattan area during the crash -- just drizzle. The torrential rain started about two to three ho
163 PlanesNTrains : That's exactly what I was thinking. Regardless how they may have felt about the danger level, they might as well run the drill, so to speak. -Dave
164 Kmh1956 : Break out the foil hats, guys.
165 Bond007 : Apart from a Biennal review...which wasn't due for at least another year...there is no such requirement to 'remain current' as a private pilot unless
166 Bobster2 : The NY Times article is spooky. All they have to do is change some verbs to past tense, and it could be his obituary. They quote Lidle's instructor sa
167 Mir : Legally current, yes. But currency and proficiency are two very different animals. -Mir
168 Gh123 : Look lets be honest - look at the concept: A plane crashes into a building in New York, they know that it was a small aircraft but no more. Bear in mi
169 F9Animal : Uh,,,, no.... Back about 5 years ago, there were these 4 airplanes. 2 of them crashed into a really tall building in New York, and 1 hit the Pentagon
170 Pizzaandplanes : Does anyone have a link to the flightaware track of the flight?
171 Supa7E7 : Sorry, but this looks like an intentional suicide.
172 Doug_Or : With his flight instructor?
173 Bond007 : I don't disagree, but the comment was in reply to the fact that he didn't have time to 'remain current'. One hour every 2 years is enough unfortunate
174 Post contains images Jpax : Sorry, but . Have you even read the posts or watched the news? Or have you been too busy watching 'Yo Mama' ?
175 Bobster2 : Small planes are not a serious threat to buildings. The only people who died today were the pilots. They barely broke some windows and started a fire
176 Supa7E7 : I was just thinking out loud. Initially, yeah, it did look that way. But reading the whole thread, looks like there's evidence this was an actual May
177 Post contains links OPNLguy : Flightaware's site says they don't have one, and aren't aware of one, but I think I found him, at least for a short time... http://www4.passur.com/te
178 Bond007 : Unfortunately you are quite wrong. This was a very small aircraft, and it wasn't a terrorist attack. It was amazing luck that nobdy was killed in the
179 BOE773 : He had approx 400 hrs and was flying with an Instructor. Was he not familiar with flying the 'river' and took an Instructor along? Because of the marg
180 Post contains images Jpax : Still allow? You make it sound like General Aviation pilots are out to crash into buildings. I know sure as hell I'm not along with every other pilot
181 Doug_Or : I'm not familiar with the SR-22, and hopefuly someone who is can chime in, but I don't think popping the chute would be prudent from that altitude or
182 BOE773 : Popping the 'chute would slow down the rate of impact, whether horizontal, or at an angle greater/less than horizontal.
183 Post contains images Bobster2 : We were talking about small aircraft, so you can't correct me by pointing out it was a small aircraft. So what if it had been a terrorist attack? A s
184 Supa7E7 : GA is of course wonderful, but NYC needs to be protected from the errant King Air loaded with TNT. One thing I believe. You do your wobbly mayday ove
185 Bobster2 : The chute is designed to be effective at low altitude. It's powered by a rocket and it fills with air almost instantly.
186 Baron95 : An SR20 is neither powerful nor complex. 200HP, fixed gear airplane, single lever power controls - very simple.
187 Mir : Based on what? Looks pretty solid. The plane had 400 hours, not him. He had something around 75. Which would rain debris down on the street. Not to m
188 FlyboySMF2GFK : Just a guess, but maybe he had an instructor along because his season just wrapped up and he probably hadn't been flying much since April or so. Didn
189 Baron95 : Also incorrect IO-360-ES is a TCM Continental 6-cylinder engine - No Cirrus fly with Lycoming powerplants. You guys come down hard on the innacurate
190 Jimpop : Question: How actual "easy" is it to unintentionally fly a small aircraft into the center of a building? I was talking with some friends this evening
191 Type-Rated : CNN is now reporting that this flight was in a fixed wing aircraft and that Mets Pitcher Cory Lidle was flying the aircraft with an instructor. They w
192 AirTranTUS : CNN must be extremely confused, again. He was a pitcher for the Yankees.
193 Baron95 : How is that more dangerous than an SUV or Van loaded with TNT or a gasoline tanker truck or an 18-wheeler loaded with a fertilizer bomb or whatever.
194 Post contains images Bond007 : You're really giving bad comparisons here   The pilot today didn't intend to cause any damage, and the Tampa guy just intended to crash into the bui
195 FlyboySMF2GFK : I dunno, stall/spin at that altitude you're headed wherever your trajectory takes you. Control is not much of an option. There is a "finger" of airsp
196 BOE773 : Thanks. I just saw Miles O'Brien on the Larry King show and he said Cory had 400TT. We are prone to error at times, myself included.
197 A330323X : Comcast SportsNet in PHL just showed a piece they did earlier in the year flying with Lidle about his flying hobby contained an interview with Lidle
198 Baron95 : This is actually a very typical scenario. Fuel starvation of some sort. Engine quits. Airspeed starts decaying fast. Pilots try to extend glide by ra
199 Type-Rated : The NTSB has now reported that Mr. Lidle only recently received his Private license and that he purchased this aircraft last June, a 2002 Model Cirrus
200 Bobster2 : One of the news channels showed an animation of the flight path. They flew past the apartment building headed north, then they circled back and hit th
201 Bobster2 : We don't know who was flying the plane. Maybe the flight instructor crashed it.
202 Mir : My mistake. I should have prefaced that comment with the fact that I was getting that information from CNN earlier in the day. I stand corrected. -Mi
203 FlyboySMF2GFK : Right, you describe exactly what I was trying to say except I should have said "no instructor... intentional slow flight in that area." As for the an
204 Post contains links NYCFlyer : All, http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/cl...reman.ny.plane.crash.explainer.cnn This CNN video link shows a very different Passeur flight path from th
205 Type-Rated : Not only would you not be practicing slow flight in this kind of area, but you would also tend to have much more altitude under you, just in case. You
206 GoAllegheny : I did a quick search on the FAA website for NTSB accident reports, and there are a number of reports on Cirrus accidents, although many of them, not s
207 F9Animal : But, there are too many what ifs. For example: the fear of a substance that could have been on the plane. You just never know. I can't blame anyone f
208 Baron95 : Keep in mind that if you go Norht up the East River VFR corridor without clearance to climb into class B airspace, you'll have to make a tight 180 tu
209 Type-Rated : Since it is so early in this investigation, time will only tell what actually happened. GoAllegheny: You are right, over a year ago I noticed that is
210 FlyboySMF2GFK : Exactly, throw in some engine trouble and it exacerbates the situation. Another possibility is fixating on a bad fuel gauge or a forgotten tank-switc
211 Type-Rated : Very True, but you are susposed to be watching for things like that. Remember the old addage, "Fly The Airplane First!". But you are right, that woul
212 OPNLguy : The CNN guy mis-identified the target, and the one he's pointing at is not N929CD. If you'll go back to the TEB Passur link in reply #177, you can cr
213 Post contains images Bobster2 : But we should teach people that the fear is not justified. A small airplane is obviously a poor way to inject a substance into a building. I heard on
214 Post contains images Mir : I do hope somebody in Congress has the sense to stand up and fight to prevent the airspace becoming restricted like Washington's. And if not, that's
215 DILF : OK, so why not combine this with the other identical post on this same subject?
216 Post contains links and images FlyboySMF2GFK : Yeah, he flew the Hudson corridor down to the SOL (huh, never realized the initials of lady liberty before) and up the East River, making a sharp lef
217 Mir : Where did you get the flyway chart? -Mir
218 Post contains links FlyboySMF2GFK : Here. You have to do some hunting, but they're in there.
219 Bobster2 : The NY Times just reported: "To continue north beyond Roosevelt Island around 86th Street, pilots must radio the La Guardia control tower and seek per
220 Wjcandee : Flyboy: That building is 524 E 72nd; I live at 525, so I know of what I speak. The a/c apparently missed my building by 10 feet. You are correct that
221 Wjcandee : But the implication -- which is that this is a dangerous maneuver -- is stupid. You wouldn't go right into that building, as it is set back from the
222 Post contains images Pawsleykat : That is very sad news. Un-welcome news to me this morning as I (kind-of) follow the Yankees when I watch baseball at weekends and holidays over here.
223 AirTranTUS : Is that video online anywhere? I can't seem to find it on the MSNBC site.
224 Mir : Wierd, since my New York TACs don't have the flyway chart on the back, the way my Miami TAC does. -Mir
225 Post contains images Mir : I've flown the Hudson corridor a few times. Never the East River corridor, unless I'm high enough to be in the Class B. That turnaround is not one I
226 Bobski : I don't think they're over reacting at all. OK, hypothetical situation. What if this had been another 9/11 and NORAD hadn't have scrambled? They got
227 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Oh Lord, not this crap again.... Now theerrrreeess a well thought out plan. As far as I know, this is the first GA aircraft that has flown into a NYC
228 United787 : This whole incident smells of irresponsibility and poor judgement, similar to the JFK Jr. accident. I understand that we don't have all of the facts r
229 FlyboySMF2GFK : Thanks so much for the clarification! I did hear a few witnesses say that the aircraft was descending steeply in a nose-high attitude. Other witnesse
230 Bond007 : Now I'm with all you guys that say a GA aircraft is no more a 'risk' than a truck, but unfortunately the effect on the population is MUCH greater. Th
231 FlyboySMF2GFK : Okay, did some checking and One East River Place (525 E 72nd) is indeed 486' tall, so I'll stick with my rough estimates for that scenario.
232 FlyboySMF2GFK : Well, I don't want to start a flame war, but the fact that it happened in NYC, regardless of 9/11, means it's going to get more press and more negati
233 Wjcandee : Flyboy: Fascinating post. I'm not sure which building it could have just cleared the top of in order to hit at the 30th Floor. Given your calculations
234 Boeing Nut : Welcome to my RU list.
235 FlyboySMF2GFK : Thanks! The comment actually came from a witness that was in the building it cleared (perhaps yours, time will tell). He thought it was going to hit
236 B777fan : Essentially, he flew into a box canyon. Now that they say no mayday was received, I'd agree that this looks like a stall spin trying to get out of th
237 Post contains links AirTranTUS : Here is video I'm sure many of you would like to see. Video of Lidle's plane hitting the building. This video is from a coast guard camera about a mil
238 FlyboySMF2GFK : Wow, thanks for the link. That was a MUCH bigger explosion than I'd expect with a GA aircraft. Gotta turn off the commentary, though - a bizarre turn
239 FlyboySMF2GFK : Just a thought - that video clearly shows a southward-facing view of Roosevelt Island (Queensboro bridge is highly visible). Why, then, isn't there vi
240 Mir : Anybody know the gliding characteristics of a Cirrus? From what I've heard, some of the higher-performance singles have pretty crappy glide ratios - I
241 FlyboySMF2GFK : From what I'm hearing is that there was no emergency declaration - those initial reports have been discounted by the FAA. I'm thinking the glide char
242 FlyboySMF2GFK : A little more research into the PASSUR tapes - I can't vouch for their accuracy, so bear with me. Here's the weather at the time at LaGuardia, less th
243 Wjcandee : I was just outside on 72nd St, which is still closed to anyone that isn't a building resident. There are cops about every 15 feet along the wide sidew
244 KELPkid : One thing the NTSB will do as part of its investigation is try to start the engine and run it at full power on a test stand (of course, this is no gu
245 Brdcessna : Well if you are all wondering about currency, cnn reported he had 400 hours of flight time recorded. who knows what went wrong. All I am going to say
246 OPNLguy : It was also reported that the aircraft itself had about 400 hours on it, and that Lidle had 75-90 hours (depending upon who you listen to) of flight
247 FlyboySMF2GFK : If his PPL was issued in February, I'd have a very hard time believing he's racked up 400 hours, ya know, with baseball season and all... If he got th
248 FlyboySMF2GFK : Hmm, I'd expect a debris field to the west, not east, as the plane, as it turned, was changing from a northerly heading through westbound toward the
249 LTBEWR : I seems to me (as an "armchair NTSB investigator") that this crash was some flight control problem, with an electrical or mechanical problem with the
250 Post contains images KELPkid : If Cory Lidle's drivers license survived the accident, there's a pretty good chance his logbook survived as well (assuming he had it on board...). Wh
251 FlyboySMF2GFK : Maybe, but I'm still betting on poor judgment leading to a poorly executed 180 to remain clear of LGA's class B. Contributing factors from this armcha
252 EridanMan : Thanks for your post. Your analysis matches my speculation from what I'd heard exactly... A simple pilotage mistake trying to turn in tight quarters
253 FlyboySMF2GFK : Excellent post!
254 EridanMan : Loosing (and/or gaining) altitude rapidly is a well known and well documented effect of a poorly executed steep turn in a light aircraft... (at 45 de
255 Bobster2 : Last night all the news channels showed videos of Lidle flying the plane. We also know they circled the Statue of Liberty before heading up the East R
256 OPNLguy : Just watched this afternoon's NTSB briefing on CNN, and the NTSB gal mentioned that the ballistic recovery chute had signs of thermal discharge and th
257 Post contains images A330323X : See my reply 197. I'd tend to listen to the report coming straight out of Lidle's mouth, but that's just me.
258 Bobster2 : Keep in mind that NYC has a crazy way of counting the number of stories in a building. The 50th floor of the building that got hit is actually the 40t
259 Post contains images Comorin : Then what floor would someone who actually lives on the 9th floor be on?
260 KELPkid : Wow...259 replies. Mods: is it time to lock this thread and start a new one?
261 Mir : If those were the same videos I saw, those were of him flying a Cessna around the Philly area. I think it was some local sports news story about his
262 Post contains images Bobster2 : Probably the 9th. They generally use the correct numbers on the lower floors, but at some point they add 10 the actual number. So it might be 1-9 and
263 AirTranTUS : I heard that it was just the opposite. The hospital in this building takes up floors 1-10 or so, and the condos restart at 1 after the hospital makin
264 Bobster2 : Quote from today's Times: "The plane hit the floors numbered 39 through 41. (The building is 42 stories tall, but, as in many residential buildings,
265 Post contains links and images Wjcandee : Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 264): "The plane hit the floors numbered 39 through 41. (The building is 42 stories tall, but, as in many residential building
266 Post contains images Bobster2 : C'mon, they had to explain the confusion over the floor numbering. First reports said the plane hit the 30th story of a 50-floor building. Well ... t
267 AirTranTUS : This video is online on the US page at cnn.com[Edited 2006-10-13 05:52:14]
268 AirTranTUS : CNN has a video questioning the security of NYC airspace. Phil Boyer (AOPA Pres.) says the plane could not carry much fuel or payload. Useful load is
269 Bobster2 : Lidle's instructor didn't take the required Cirrus 5-day training class. He was a Cessna instructor. His qualifications to fly the Cirrus are being qu
270 Wjcandee : For what it's worth, they finally brought the street sweepers in around 4pm today. Sanitation Dept. took the street itself, and private workers swept
271 Mir : Is that Miles in the left seat? I can't say I have a real problem with the way they're looking around - they're obviously much higher (within the Cla
272 Post contains images Boeing Nut : I think you nailed that one right on the head.
273 Post contains links BananaBoY : My partner just found out that the Flight Instructor on the plane was a friend - a member of the same church. Apparently he leaves behind a child and
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